.

[Arsenios]

Of course God spoke in dreams and visions during revelatory times (Old Testament and New Testament).

God: The SAME yesterday, today, and forever!

Aren't you glad He has not changed?

I am SORRY He is not speaking to YOU...

You do not get to tell those with whom He IS speaking that He is NOT...

Not your call...

Never was...

Never will be...

You do not get to deny God from those who, unlike you, hear and know His Voice...

When the Canon closed, revelation (dreams and visions) ceased.

We closed the Canon in the 4th Century, and dreams and visions were and still are and always have been an ongoing part of Christ's Holy body, the Ground and the Pillar of the Truth Who is Christ...

You are simply out of the loop, apparently...

Vision denyers like you normally do not have visions...

So if you DID have a vision, would you run to a psychiatrist?

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

You mean that God no longer speaks to us except through Scripture because ??
Why doesn't He?

He just hasn't yet spoken to Don yet...

When He does, Don's tune will change...

Or he will go on psychotropic meds...

Arsenios

 

[sunlover1]

He just hasn't yet spoken to Don yet...

When He does, Don's tune will change...

Or he will go on psychotropic meds...

Arsenios

Not sure if i dare "like" your post, since I evidently can't
fully understand what you say!
I agree in part, and not sure about in full on your post
that Don called me on.
I am definitely SS all the way
And not a fan of ST. (Sacred Tradition)
Can we still be friends?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

He just hasn't yet spoken to Don yet...

When He does, Don's tune will change...

Or he will go on psychotropic meds...

Arsenios

Or me. Or countless millions of other Christians.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

God: The SAME yesterday, today, and forever!

Aren't you glad He has not changed?

I am SORRY He is not speaking to YOU...

You do not get to tell those with whom He IS speaking that He is NOT...

Not your call...

Never was...

Never will be...

You do not get to deny God from those who, unlike you, hear and know His Voice...



We closed the Canon in the 4th Century, and dreams and visions were and still are and always have been an ongoing part of Christ's Holy body, the Ground and the Pillar of the Truth Who is Christ...

You are simply out of the loop, apparently...

Vision denyers like you normally do not have visions...

So if you DID have a vision, would you run to a psychiatrist?

Arsenios

Owing your logic, God is still parting the Red Sea. He is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Christ is still walking around Jerusalem. He is the same yesterday, today and forever.

God is still revealing Himself as a pillar of cloud by day. . .

"You do not get to tell those with whom He IS speaking that He is NOT..."

We certainly have the right, and obligation, to oppose falsehood and error. All Christians do.

All Christians "hear" God's voice, the one contained in what is inscripturated for us. No one is denying that.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

“Hearing the Voice of God – By Rev. Robert S. Liichow"

. . . My brothers and sisters there are many other O.T. examples I could cite, but these examples should make it very clear that people in general never personally heard God’s voice. Even God’s specially chosen vessels, rarely heard His voice and when they did it was regarding redemptive history in some form or another.​

The charismatic belief that throughout biblical history God is just chattering away to His people simply doesn’t stand up to any close examination of the Bible. Of course many within the charismatic movement will point that we are “New Testament” believers, ergo we should consider the New Testament as our “norm.” Ok, let’s take a quick look through the New Testament.

Well if one reads the Book of Acts carefully one will discover that the vast majority of the times we read of God speaking directly or even indirectly, say through an angel, less than twenty times and the majority of these times were involving the Apostle Peter and Paul. The few others so specifically guided by God were folks like Agabus (a prophet), Cornelius (whose salvation was a catalyst for the Gentiles), and Ananias (who went to pray for a man named “Saul”.

What is remarkable about each occurrence is that none of these individuals were seeking to hear from God directly! God was the One who reached out to them. Also keep in mind that none of these people were ever taught any formula, hidden keys, or method on how to hear from God (which is a very popular subject in almost all Christian bookstores & conferences). Even more astounding is the FACT that no one is ever counseled to seek to hear God’s voice. . .


The above is a partial quote from a blog post: https://discernmentministriesinternational.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/hearing-the-voice-of-god/

​

and here: https://discernmentministriesintern...2010/01/26/hearing-the-voice-of-god-part-two/

 

[jimmyjimmy]

"In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many time and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe." Hebrews 1:1-2

1) through the prophets at many time and in various ways. In OT times, God was not going around chatting with every Tom, Dick, and Harry. He only briefly spoke to the prophets, and when He did, it was not a "personal word". It was to be passed on to instruct Israel in some way.

2) but This "but" should not be glossed over. It indicates a change. No more speaking to His people through prophets. Hebrews was written ~ 65 AD

3) in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son. We are in these last days. God, if we believe the words contained in Hebrews, no longer speaks to a select few people, prophets, as he now exclusively speaks to us through His Son.

 

[Peter J Barban]

For the past 500+ posts, it has been clear that there is an irreconcilable conflict over whether God still speaks today outside of scripture.

In the Bible there was a similar conflict between believers, which was finally resolved in the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15.

One side claimed that “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” The other side said disagreed. So called for testimony. They listened to reports from Peter, Paul, and Barnabus about God's work among the Gentiles.

They examined the experience and fruit of those ministers/ministries. Then they decided if that testimony matched scripture. Somehow, they heard from the Holy Spirit that they should not make it difficult for the Gentiles to turn to God.

Let's honestly and fairly examine the evidence and fruit of those who claim to hear from God. If holy fruit is there, then the Holy Spirit is guiding them.

That is what I have been doing, showing you the experience and the fruit of hearing God's voice, but too many prefer to ignore the evidence and continue to repeat the same old arguments. That is not a Biblical way to resolve conflict.

 

[sunlover1]

Or me. Or countless millions of other Christians.

But FAITH pleases Him.
So.. if you have faith for Scripture, then God is happy to leave you to that.
And Scripture is amazing! God exalts His name above all and He exalts His
Word above all of His Name!
But seriously, suppose you were wrong and God really does speak to men...
But only those who are open to it...
*shrugs.
js.

 

[sunlover1]

"You do not get to tell those with whom He IS speaking that He is NOT..."

We certainly have the right, and obligation, to oppose falsehood and error. All Christians do.

Years ago i had a neighbor woman, the most godly woman I'd ever met, even animals wouldn't leave
her alone. She flippin glowed! if you will
She would come and pray with me sometimes if i were going through crap. When I found out which
church she attended, OH MY lol. That was it. Next time she asked if she could pray with me, I changed
the subject but quick O What if she tried to pray in tongues right in front of me!!! YIKES! NO flipping
WAY! kwim?.. I mean, I was a firm believer in everything Macarther was telling me on the radio show!)
But unlike you, I dared NOT to suggest that her experiences with God were not exactly what she thought
that they were.
Falsehood and error?
God speaking to His kids.
yikes. Glad I fasted and prayed for 3 days
and He gave me the baptism so I could
now "see" what she had.

All Christians "hear" God's voice, the one contained in what is inscripturated for us. No one is denying that.

Nothing wring with that!
Most of the time, He
speaks through His Word
anyhow!

 

[sunlover1]

You do not get to tell those with whom He IS speaking that He is NOT...

Not your call...

Never was...

Never will be...

You do not get to deny God from those who, unlike you, hear and know His Voice...

Exactly.
My experiences with God are not subject to someone
else's
interpretation of Scripture.

 

[swordsman1]

No it wasn't.
In SOME of those examples it was, not in all of them.
You may SOMETIMES take the interstate to work
that doesn't mean you don't take other avenues as well.

All those examples of God's "voice" I quoted were previously given, recorded and passed on revelations (the Law, covenant, prophecy, Christ's teachings). None of them were feelings or impressions in the peoples minds, nor are there any such examples anywhere in scripture.

My sheep hear my voice is far more likely to just mean what it says, We hear His voice,
IOW, we KNOW Him and aren't deceived by other voices that may try to tempt us or lie
to us. Regardless of the means that He uses to convey His will to us, be it through Scripture, or through our conscience (which is easy peasy IF you've hidden His Word (SCRIPTURE!) in your heart...

But we do not literally hear his "voice". You have said yourself you hear no audible words. So it does require interpretation. "My voice" is either Christ speaking to you via your gut feelings, impressions, or "conscience" as you called it (although that defies the meaning of conscience) which has no biblical precedence, OR it is His previously recorded words and teachings which absolutely does.

Again, no one is talking about new revelations, so this is kind of a waste of time.
God speaks to me when He wants to and HOW He wants to.
It's really not something you can explain, but it happens.
Just as Paul couldn't understand how his experience with God in
2 Corinthians 12:13 happened, but it does. And He's never changed.
He has communicated with His children since He created Adam.

Any new message from God is a new revelation.

You have often recounted your experiences here and said things like "God told me "<exact words here>".

You say it is not an actual audible voice you hear in your head, but rather your "conscience" speaking to you (presumably thoughts/feelings that come to you which you then verbalize using your own words) and then claim this is God giving you a new personal message. Please correct me if I got it wrong.

 

[swordsman1]

God: The SAME yesterday, today, and forever!

Aren't you glad He has not changed?

I am SORRY He is not speaking to YOU...

Ah, that old misinterpreted verse that is often trotted out by charismatics to claim the miraculous and revelatory gifts are still in operation today.

That verse is referring to God's unchanging eternal nature and character, not the way he operates in human history which most certainly does change. Do we still walk in a sinless state as Adam did? Does God still manifest himself in the Cloud. Do we still sacrifice bulls and lambs? Does Christ still walk the earth? Do we still speak foreign languages we never learned?

 

[swordsman1]

Let's honestly and fairly examine the evidence and fruit of those who claim to hear from God. If holy fruit is there, then the Holy Spirit is guiding them.

That is what I have been doing, showing you the experience and the fruit of hearing God's voice, but too many prefer to ignore the evidence and continue to repeat the same old arguments. That is not a Biblical way to resolve conflict.

Good fruit is not the method of determining correct doctrine. Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists, Buddhists, Hindus etc are all loving, kind, generous, and sincere people and have successful ministries (unfortunately).

 

[Peter J Barban]

Good fruit is not the method of determining correct doctrine. Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists, Buddhists, Hindus etc are all loving, kind, generous, and sincere people and have successful ministries (unfortunately).

Thus speaks the word of swordsman1. However the Bible, in Acts Chapter 15 says differently. I probably can find other scriptural examples of people using evidence to determine which opinion of the scriptures is correct.

As of now, my position on finding the truth is biblical and yours is not.

 

[Peter J Barban]

Why are you all so afraid of testing your doctrines against real life?

This "believe it because we say so" approach, sort of makes you the new orthodoxy. But the protestant in me keeps asking for evidence. Why should we believe you? What external evidence do you have that God no longer speaks to us?

 

[Extraneous]

Thus speaks the word of swordsman1. However the Bible, in Acts Chapter 15 says differently. I probably can find other scriptural examples of people using evidence to determine which opinion of the scriptures is correct.

As of now, my position on finding the truth is biblical and yours is not.

The Bereans searched the scriptures, to see if Paul was teaching truth.

Paul said all scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction.

John teaches that we should hold onto what we heard in the beginning. In the beginning was the Word. (Logos, saying)

Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the Word.

A time will come when they will no longer endure sound doctrine. Preach the Word

 

[Don Maurer]

God: The SAME yesterday, today, and forever!

Aren't you glad He has not changed?

I am SORRY He is not speaking to YOU...

You do not get to tell those with whom He IS speaking that He is NOT...

Not your call...

Never was...

Never will be...

You do not get to deny God from those who, unlike you, hear and know His Voice...

Again, you complete fail to respond to what is said. No one in this thread said "God has changed." We are saying that God is doing different things when he speaks, but he still has the same attributes. To follow your thinking I would have to say God changed his attributes when he stopped creating. Did God create in 7 days and then stop creating (rest)? Did God command the Law, and then have us not worship him with sacrificial animals? Did God change his attributes when he had the sacrifice stop? You confuse God changing his attributes with God changing what he is doing.

God has spoken in the scriptures, and is still speaking by them to generations today. The apostles quoted the Hebrew scriptures in their day as the word of God. We can still quote the scriptures today as the word of God. This does not mean continuing revelation is required.

We closed the Canon in the 4th Century, and dreams and visions were and still are and always have been an ongoing part of Christ's Holy body, the Ground and the Pillar of the Truth Who is Christ...

You are simply out of the loop, apparently...

Vision denyers like you normally do not have visions...

So if you DID have a vision, would you run to a psychiatrist?

Arsenios

Strange, the apostles stopped writing in the 1st century. The apostles even recognized one another's writings as scriptural when they were written. Please consult the New Testament in 2nd Peter 3:15-16
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction
If Peter equates Pauls writings as scripture in the 1st century, how do you say that "we closed the canon in the 4th century." You seem ignorant of both the scriptures and history. Who gave the Church any such authority to "close the canon?" I am aware that certain Church Fathers made lists of books they considered canonical. I am aware that a few minor early Church councils made lists of books, such as Hippo. But the Church Fathers and councils contradicted each other all the time.

You make the statements you do thinking that they prove sola ecclesia, they do not. They complete assume sola ecclesia and nothing more and are based upon fallacy.

 

[Extraneous]

Why are you all so afraid of testing your doctrines against real life?

This "believe it because we say so" approach, sort of makes you the new orthodoxy. But the protestant in me keeps asking for evidence. Why should we believe you? What external evidence do you have that God no longer speaks to us?

Test things against scripture, that the berean way. The fruit of the spirit in all goodness, righteousness and TRUTH (Ephesians 5)

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

[swordsman1]

Thus speaks the word of swordsman1. However the Bible, in Acts Chapter 15 says differently. I probably can find other scriptural examples of people using evidence to determine which opinion of the scriptures is correct.

As of now, my position on finding the truth is biblical and yours is not.

Where in Acts 15 is good fruit the determinant of correct doctrine? Or anywhere else for that matter?