how does devout christians justify voting Democrat?

[RDKirk]

I never met a conservative Democrat.

You're not very old. The Republican Religious Right were Democrats up until the 60s.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

You're not very old. The Republican Religious Right were Democrats up until the 60s.

I knew there were alot more conservative Democrats back then, but I was referring to now.

It seems like the only ones are Southern Democrats which I am too fond of.

 

[tulc]

Well, I don't think you will go to hell if you support either party. Jesus saves you, not your political views.

Of course, politics do matter. I do not think a Christian can support racism, Nazism, for example.

Both parties have Christian elements. I think Democrats are more Christian when it comes to fiscal issue (except for the Protestant work ethic which they do not seem too big on), but the GOP is more Christian on social issues.

I would be a Democrat if they were pro-life and opposed to gay marriages.

Now they exist, but they seem rare. RINOS seem way more common. I never met a conservative Democrat.(emph. added)

I used to be Republican till I realized they aren't pro-life, they're simply anti-abortion.
tulc(knows there's a big difference between the two)

 

[HannahT]

I used to be Republican till I realized they aren't pro-life, they're simply anti-abortion.
tulc(knows there's a big difference between the two)

Yes, there is.

 

[greenguzzi]

I used to be Republican till I realized they aren't pro-life, they're simply anti-abortion.
tulc(knows there's a big difference between the two)

I agree.
Also, a party's claimed stance on any issue, including abortion, is irrelevant. It's their policies that are important. The Republican's policies on abortion may well cause more harm than those of the Democrats. Too many Christians see politics as black-and-White; it isn't.

 

[HannahT]

Too many Christians see politics as black-and-White; it isn't.

Yes, I wish it was only the Christians that saw it that way. It would be easier to handle. Sadly, we have more than one group doing that.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Sorry, this question might seem kind of random, but did the supreme court justices legalizing gay marrige have anything to do with who's in the white house? The president is obviously not a member of the nine justices, but is there any proof that the majority of them felt pressured to legalize gay marriage because of the party that is in control? Also, does the president have the power to veto or ban such laws?

I reckon the justices were abiding by already established case law. In the 1960's the Supreme Court in Loving v. Virginia ruled that anti-miscegenation laws (laws prohibiting interracial marriage) were unconstitutional, and held that marriage was a fundamental right of man.

Speaking on behalf of the Court, Chief Justice Earl Warren said,

"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State."

By establishing that marriage was a basic civil right, and to deprive a person of said right was unconstitutional, established precedent which, ultimately, means that the State cannot deprive persons the right to marry. If two consenting adults wish to join in a legal union--a marriage--that is a basic civil right; and the State has no place to deny them this right.

It would require a subsequent Supreme Court decision to overturn a previous one. The president's executive powers allow him to veto congressional legislature, but the president has no power to overturn a Supreme Court decision. Congress is able to act as a balance of powers for the Supreme Court by amending the Constitution--a Constitutional Amendment can overturn a Supreme Court decision, otherwise only another Supreme Court decision can overrule a prior one. The only role the president has in regard to the Supreme Court is that he is granted the constitutional powers to appoint a chief justice, that decision is then to go through Congress, who can either accept the nomination or reject it.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[2consider]

Here's a question. Why do Christians vote at all? Seems to undermine the idea that God is in control. If God has a plan, then it was God's plan that Obama became president, and it's God's plan that whoever wins in 2016 will be who God wants. Doesn't mean that god supports the views of these people, it simply suggests whoever is president will be used to accomplish his goal.

If Jesus were to run for president, which he wouldn't, he would likely run as Libertarian. Jesus taught do unto to others as you would have them do unto you. Jesus said live meek and humbly. Jesus taught that it's how we live our own lives is what matters, don't concern yourselves with the sins of others. All Libertarian principles.

Of course Jesus also said we are not of this world, and that we shouldn't spend our lives worrying about this world and instead prepare for what comes next.

 

[tulc]

Here's a question. Why do Christians vote at all? Seems to undermine the idea that God is in control. If God has a plan, then it was God's plan that Obama became president, and it's God's plan that whoever wins in 2016 will be who God wants. Doesn't mean that god supports the views of these people, it simply suggests whoever is president will be used to accomplish his goal.

If Jesus were to run for president, which he wouldn't, he would likely run as Libertarian. Jesus taught do unto to others as you would have them do unto you. Jesus said live meek and humbly. Jesus taught that it's how we live our own lives is what matters, don't concern yourselves with the sins of others. All Libertarian principles

Of course Jesus also said we are not of this world, and that we shouldn't spend our lives worrying about this world and instead prepare for what comes next.

...your understanding of "libertarian principles" is quite different from the ones I've come in contact with.
tulc(is just sayn')

 

[HannahT]

Here's a question. Why do Christians vote at all? Seems to undermine the idea that God is in control. If God has a plan, then it was God's plan that Obama became president, and it's God's plan that whoever wins in 2016 will be who God wants. Doesn't mean that god supports the views of these people, it simply suggests whoever is president will be used to accomplish his goal.

If I go to the doctor is that undermining him? What a about a dentist? I'm sure he has a plan there too.

 

[greenguzzi]

...your understanding of "libertarian principles" is quite different from the ones I've come in contact with.
tulc(is just sayn')

Try libertarian socialist.

 

[2consider]

...your understanding of "libertarian principles" is quite different from the ones I've come in contact with.
tulc(is just sayn')

Really?

I don't know who tulc is, but the foundational principle of libertarianism is liberty.

...your understanding of "libertarian principles" is quite different from the ones I've come in contact with.
tulc(is just sayn')

Qucik edit here. I realize who tulc is now. Speaking is first person threw me off. So whatever other libertarians...

Cont....
Well then, I guess I should explain my position.

I don't know who tulc is, but perhaps it's isn't lack of understanding libertarian principles or religious Christian principles?
The fundamental principle of Libertarianism is liberty.

Liberty
1 the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views:

2 the power or scope to act as one pleases:

How liberty is reflected in Christianity.

The Bible is full of rules and restrictions, but Jesus freed us from those rules and restrictions. Gave us liberty from them. Christians have been liberated so to speak by the work of Jesus.

We are free to live our lives as we see fit. It's our choice to accept or reject the will of god. We are not sent to heaven or hell, we choose heaven or hell.

Jesus also spoke of helping others. Jesus never said steal from the rich and give to the poor. (Neither did Robin Hood either, but that's something else.) The only possible way to government to distribute anything is to first seize it. That cannot be accomplished without oppression. Jesus spoke often about not oppressing others. If government is used to enforce ideologies, either religious or secular, those opposing it are oppressed.

How this applies to Libertarianism.

Libertarians believe in extremely limited government and the maximum power and scope to do as one pleases. They don't support laws designed to influence behavior and personal choice. Every speaks about libertarian views on drugs. It's not that libertarians are in favor of drugs, but they believe it's a person's choice to do them. If it's inherently wrong to do drugs, that's between the user and God. It's not about judging the drug user.

Jesus warned us about judging others too harshly, and the libertarian view is one of live and let live, without judgement, and especially without government oppression. Non drug users are subject to oppression and hardship because of the government's goal of fighting drugs because they are "bad." It's the libertarian view that adult people able to consent should be able to do whatever they want, up to the point where it infringes on another persons right to life and liberty.

Christianity hasn't freed us from all rules, but it's limited to basically one rule, accept Jesus. Libertarians don't believe in no government, and they believe in laws that need to be enforced. Those would be, as I said, laws that infringe on others right to life and liberty. Killing someone certainly infringes on both, so that's one example of limited government. When you think about it, seven of the ten commandments should pretty much cover the scope of laws. Don't lie cheat, steal or kill etc...

Of course, as long as we are on this earth, we can never be free. The world according to the bible is ruled by unseen dark forces that we are not able to defeat. Jesus offers to liberate us from those dark forces.

In the end, the bible tells us our battle will be against a world leader of a "wold government." So if we think we can vote for someone that will lead us away from that fate the bible tells us we will face, they are wrong. Cruz, Trump, Rubio, Clinton, Sanders or even Johnson, a libertarian candidate, it matters not. Our fate has been decided. An oppressive government hell bent on our enslavement.

Wow, I think I just wrote the script for my next video.

 

[2consider]

If I go to the doctor is that undermining him? What a about a dentist? I'm sure he has a plan there too.

Do you think it's God's plan that you have to suffer from a tooth ache? Theoretically, God gave us dentists for that purpose.

 

[2consider]

Try libertarian socialist.

Libertarian Socialist is an oxymoron.

 

[Extraneous]

Politics only put stumbling blocks between Christians. It also stains the Gospel. We should not offend people over politics because all that truly matters is shining the light of the Gospel. Put faith in God, he will do in this world what he's going to do, regardless of how we vote. There is no sense dividing ourselves over politics, and causing each other to stumble. Put faith in God. God is in control.

 

[Extraneous]

God commands us to pray, not vote.

 

[2consider]

I agree, but that's not why I vote, and that's not why I do any political things I do. One of the main reasons I bother with politics is to attempt to stop that very thing.

You realize, if you are attempting "that very thing" you are doing to others what you don't want done to you. You are using government to get what you want through oppression of others, and using government as a tool to do your dirty work for you.

 

[Hetta]

Repub are usually against abortion, transgendered gay,multiple spouse, child out of wedlock , etc

And yet none of them ever try to overturn Roe v. Wade, I don't' know what "transgendered gay" is - there's no such to my knowledge, many, many Christians divorce and remarry, and a whole boatload of them have illegitimate children. So they may be "against" these things, but they do them .. in boatloads.

 

[tulc]

Really?

I don't know who tulc is, but the foundational principle of libertarianism is liberty.


Qucik edit here. I realize who tulc is now. Speaking is first person threw me off. So whatever other libertarians...

Cont....
Well then, I guess I should explain my position.

I don't know who tulc is, but perhaps it's isn't lack of understanding libertarian principles or religious Christian principles?
The fundamental principle of Libertarianism is liberty.

Liberty
1 the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views:

2 the power or scope to act as one pleases:

How liberty is reflected in Christianity.

The Bible is full of rules and restrictions, but Jesus freed us from those rules and restrictions. Gave us liberty from them. Christians have been liberated so to speak by the work of Jesus.

We are free to live our lives as we see fit. It's our choice to accept or reject the will of god. We are not sent to heaven or hell, we choose heaven or hell.

Jesus also spoke of helping others. Jesus never said steal from the rich and give to the poor. (Neither did Robin Hood either, but that's something else.) The only possible way to government to distribute anything is to first seize it. That cannot be accomplished without oppression. Jesus spoke often about not oppressing others. If government is used to enforce ideologies, either religious or secular, those opposing it are oppressed.

How this applies to Libertarianism.

Libertarians believe in extremely limited government and the maximum power and scope to do as one pleases. They don't support laws designed to influence behavior and personal choice. Every speaks about libertarian views on drugs. It's not that libertarians are in favor of drugs, but they believe it's a person's choice to do them. If it's inherently wrong to do drugs, that's between the user and God. It's not about judging the drug user.

Jesus warned us about judging others too harshly, and the libertarian view is one of live and let live, without judgement, and especially without government oppression. Non drug users are subject to oppression and hardship because of the government's goal of fighting drugs because they are "bad." It's the libertarian view that adult people able to consent should be able to do whatever they want, up to the point where it infringes on another persons right to life and liberty.

Christianity hasn't freed us from all rules, but it's limited to basically one rule, accept Jesus. Libertarians don't believe in no government, and they believe in laws that need to be enforced. Those would be, as I said, laws that infringe on others right to life and liberty. Killing someone certainly infringes on both, so that's one example of limited government. When you think about it, seven of the ten commandments should pretty much cover the scope of laws. Don't lie cheat, steal or kill etc...

Of course, as long as we are on this earth, we can never be free. The world according to the bible is ruled by unseen dark forces that we are not able to defeat. Jesus offers to liberate us from those dark forces.

In the end, the bible tells us our battle will be against a world leader of a "wold government." So if we think we can vote for someone that will lead us away from that fate the bible tells us we will face, they are wrong. Cruz, Trump, Rubio, Clinton, Sanders or even Johnson, a libertarian candidate, it matters not. Our fate has been decided. An oppressive government hell bent on our enslavement.

Wow, I think I just wrote the script for my next video.

I see I was right. You not only don't quite grasp "Libertarian Principles", you also seem pretty unclear on Christian ones also. Here's a simple rule of thumb when you want to discuss "Libertarian Principles": you don't get to decide what other libertarians can/can't believe.
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

 

[ml5363]

And yet none of them ever try to overturn Roe v. Wade, I don't' know what "transgendered gay" is

forgot an apostrophe. alert the grammar police



- there's no such to my knowledge, many, many Christians divorce and remarry, and a whole boatload of them have illegitimate children. So they may be "against" these things, but they do them .. in boatloads.

yes didn't say republicans..don't do these things..just meaning for conservative, more morals, they were just mere examples..life was better for our kids growing up and families when most folks were on the same page..and in their natural states...no one is perfect...

main question was how do those who align with democrat..democrats being okay for abortion aka killing babies, okay for people to be gay, change their sex...how are they christian too? granted I have voted democrat b4.. just don't consider myself one...