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DNA Communicates?

Loudmouth

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In another thread, an ID/Creationist made this statement:

"DNA communicates detailed instructional information which RNA detects carries out for the construction of living things."

Can any ID/creationist supporter please explain how this communication occurs? Is it by voice? E-mail? Telegraph? How exactly does this communication occur?
 

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In another thread, an ID/Creationist made this statement:

"DNA communicates detailed instructional information which RNA detects carries out for the construction of living things."

Can any ID/creationist supporter please explain how this communication occurs? Is it by voice? E-mail? Telegraph? How exactly does this communication occur?
Why does it communicate?
 
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PsychoSarah

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In another thread, an ID/Creationist made this statement:

"DNA communicates detailed instructional information which RNA detects carries out for the construction of living things."

Can any ID/creationist supporter please explain how this communication occurs? Is it by voice? E-mail? Telegraph? How exactly does this communication occur?
I'm not a creationist, but I am very tempted to explain it.
 
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bhsmte

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Man you would think all the creationists would jump at the opportunity to answer this question. Kind of like my threads on defining design.....oh wait.

They only dip their feet in. When the water starts to get too high, they run the other way.
 
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joshua 1 9

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In another thread, an ID/Creationist made this statement:

"DNA communicates detailed instructional information which RNA detects carries out for the construction of living things."

Can any ID/creationist supporter please explain how this communication occurs? Is it by voice? E-mail? Telegraph? How exactly does this communication occur?
Francis S Collins calls DNA the language of God. This is the language that God uses to communicate with the elements that He created.
 
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bhsmte

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Francis S Collins calls DNA the language of God. This is the language that God uses to communicate with the elements that He created.

That is Francis's faith talking, which he admits.

He also realizes, he has no evidence, to connect DNA, with a God.
 
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pshun2404

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People make all sorts of assumption based conclusions. Look at this one....

We have 23 pairs of chromosomes which fuse at certain places while all apes have 24 and they do not fuse. YET the Darwinian spin when imposed would interpret this by saying that two ape chromosomes “fused” into a single chromosome resulting in humans having only 23 pairs of chromosome. Wow! What a presumption to explain away the data just because it throws a monkey wrench into their ape-man hypothesis. PEOPLE WAKE UP….we have absolutely NO EVIDENCE that that happened….it is an imposed presumption… a hypothesis based “interpretation” and nothing more.

In truth we have not found one example of "chromosomal fusion" in mammals. To know this even happened we would have to have examples of their unfused presence as being common then see that they became fused.

When some Darwinians try to make the claim that we have seen babies with a "fused chromosome" they are misrepresenting something else to make the “explanation” appear rational (which it is not). Others have pointed out that what this group is referring to (and re-interpreting of course) is what are called “Robertsonian Translocations”, which are a translocation of a chromosome, not a fused chromosome! In effect they are telling a lie that they know is a lie in order to persuade.

But even if this example were to be accepted, these NEVER result in a change in the chromosome number (which is the implication they need you to buy into). Besides that, other scientifically obtained data refutes that chromosomal fusion occurs in either apes or humans.

In 2010, Nature published a paper entitled "Chimpanzee and human Y chromosomes are remarkably divergent in structure and gene content", reveals that, in addition, the Y chromosomes of these two creatures are different in their genetic arrangement as well. So though many of the same genes are there, many are placed in different areas (thus not a sequential match), and many are arranged differently where they exist in the same place, and now thanks to ENCODE we know that when expressed they can affect different sets of other genes thus producing radically different effects. Now this is “effectively” a significant difference, but many will strive to explain it away or ignore its significance I am sure (as they must if the illusion of their hypothesis is to continue to be accepted as “established fact”).

Sets of unique genes necessarily work together during embryonic development to form our unique bodies (each creature’s unique variations being dependent on this). The chimp Y chromosome has only half the genes that a human has (a 37:78 ratio). Their set contributes to making them physically a chimp, our set contributes to making us physically a human, and never the twain has ever met as far as the actual data can reveal. Aside from the difficulty of coordinating new genes into this apparently consistent process, mixing then into the set of existing genes would alter the structure and function of the creature (making them NOT what they are…the chimp would cease to be a chimp and the human would cease to be a human…or else they would be a sick or distorted version and nothing more).

And so I ask "Why insist it IS when there is no factual reason to believe it?" In the end it turns out to be Sci Fi....might be....could be...But an "established fact"? No! That it clearly is not....

Creation is real, and evolution is real. I accept both. But I do not accept ALL that some “creation-ists” say these things mean, nor do I accept ALL that some “evolution-ists” say these things mean! What SOME creationists and SOME evolutionists say the things mean are merely point of view, opinion, and a lot of hypothesis based interpretation. Neither presumptions make it credible. Even inference is interpretation (the added human element).


For example, to call a genetic difference between two creatures a “mutation” in one of them, can only truly be a mutation if one has examples of those creatures in a prior state showing this section or gene to have previously been different.


In other words, we would have to be able to SHOW (demonstrate, observe) that it once was one thing in a genetic line and is now another, otherwise it’s presence is being imagined to be so, nothing more…it is an opinion of what the evidence means…and you know what they say about opinions…it could just be representative of what makes up two different unrelated creatures.


Getting stuck on a popular idea or accepted hypothesis (whether YEC or EVO), or simply repeating it over and over is just a method of rationalization to maintain a position (or possibly to persuade others your belief/interpretation of these things is correct)…
 
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Biologist

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Francis S Collins calls DNA the language of God. This is the language that God uses to communicate with the elements that He created.
From a book I read recently about an undecyphered written language:
ozfPFB1.png


There is a big problem with DNA sequences as a language. When compared to human and machine languages, DNA appears to be very close to max entropy(true random).
 
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Loudmouth

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People make all sorts of assumption based conclusions. Look at this one....

We have 23 pairs of chromosomes which fuse at certain places while all apes have 24 and they do not fuse. YET the Darwinian spin when imposed would interpret this by saying that two ape chromosomes “fused” into a single chromosome resulting in humans having only 23 pairs of chromosome. Wow! What a presumption to explain away the data just because it throws a monkey wrench into their ape-man hypothesis. PEOPLE WAKE UP….we have absolutely NO EVIDENCE that that happened….it is an imposed presumption… a hypothesis based “interpretation” and nothing more.

In truth we have not found one example of "chromosomal fusion" in mammals. To know this even happened we would have to have examples of their unfused presence as being common then see that they became fused.

When some Darwinians try to make the claim that we have seen babies with a "fused chromosome" they are misrepresenting something else to make the “explanation” appear rational (which it is not). Others have pointed out that what this group is referring to (and re-interpreting of course) is what are called “Robertsonian Translocations”, which are a translocation of a chromosome, not a fused chromosome! In effect they are telling a lie that they know is a lie in order to persuade.

But even if this example were to be accepted, these NEVER result in a change in the chromosome number (which is the implication they need you to buy into). Besides that, other scientifically obtained data refutes that chromosomal fusion occurs in either apes or humans.

In 2010, Nature published a paper entitled "Chimpanzee and human Y chromosomes are remarkably divergent in structure and gene content", reveals that, in addition, the Y chromosomes of these two creatures are different in their genetic arrangement as well. So though many of the same genes are there, many are placed in different areas (thus not a sequential match), and many are arranged differently where they exist in the same place, and now thanks to ENCODE we know that when expressed they can affect different sets of other genes thus producing radically different effects. Now this is “effectively” a significant difference, but many will strive to explain it away or ignore its significance I am sure (as they must if the illusion of their hypothesis is to continue to be accepted as “established fact”).

Sets of unique genes necessarily work together during embryonic development to form our unique bodies (each creature’s unique variations being dependent on this). The chimp Y chromosome has only half the genes that a human has (a 37:78 ratio). Their set contributes to making them physically a chimp, our set contributes to making us physically a human, and never the twain has ever met as far as the actual data can reveal. Aside from the difficulty of coordinating new genes into this apparently consistent process, mixing then into the set of existing genes would alter the structure and function of the creature (making them NOT what they are…the chimp would cease to be a chimp and the human would cease to be a human…or else they would be a sick or distorted version and nothing more).

And so I ask "Why insist it IS when there is no factual reason to believe it?" In the end it turns out to be Sci Fi....might be....could be...But an "established fact"? No! That it clearly is not....

Creation is real, and evolution is real. I accept both. But I do not accept ALL that some “creation-ists” say these things mean, nor do I accept ALL that some “evolution-ists” say these things mean! What SOME creationists and SOME evolutionists say the things mean are merely point of view, opinion, and a lot of hypothesis based interpretation. Neither presumptions make it credible. Even inference is interpretation (the added human element).


For example, to call a genetic difference between two creatures a “mutation” in one of them, can only truly be a mutation if one has examples of those creatures in a prior state showing this section or gene to have previously been different.


In other words, we would have to be able to SHOW (demonstrate, observe) that it once was one thing in a genetic line and is now another, otherwise it’s presence is being imagined to be so, nothing more…it is an opinion of what the evidence means…and you know what they say about opinions…it could just be representative of what makes up two different unrelated creatures.


Getting stuck on a popular idea or accepted hypothesis (whether YEC or EVO), or simply repeating it over and over is just a method of rationalization to maintain a position (or possibly to persuade others your belief/interpretation of these things is correct)…

Could you address the topic?
 
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PsychoSarah

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People make all sorts of assumption based conclusions. Look at this one....

We have 23 pairs of chromosomes which fuse at certain places while all apes have 24 and they do not fuse. YET the Darwinian spin when imposed would interpret this by saying that two ape chromosomes “fused” into a single chromosome resulting in humans having only 23 pairs of chromosome. Wow! What a presumption to explain away the data just because it throws a monkey wrench into their ape-man hypothesis. PEOPLE WAKE UP….we have absolutely NO EVIDENCE that that happened….it is an imposed presumption… a hypothesis based “interpretation” and nothing more.
The reason why we think the chromosomes fused in human ancestors is the fact that one of our chromosomes has two centromere locations (one no longer functions, and both centromere locations match those found in two chromosomes in other apes) instead of the single one the rest of our chromosomes have. Furthermore, when you stick the two ape ones together, you pretty much can't tell between that and the actual human chromosome, which is chromosome 2 (except the X and Y chromosomes, they are numbered by size). Chromosome 2 is also unique in that it has telomeres (repeating segments found at the ends of chromosomes) in the middle of it. Does that not seem exactly like what two chromosomes merging together would result in?

In the most basic sense, the chromosomes found in chimps and other nonhuman apes alive today are like the two on the left, while the human one is like that on the right https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Chromosome2_merge.png
It would be weirder if this was caused by something other than the fusion of two chromosomes.

In truth we have not found one example of "chromosomal fusion" in mammals. To know this even happened we would have to have examples of their unfused presence as being common then see that they became fused.
Look at the bottom two rows of this cancer cell's chromosomes. These are ones comprised so much of a mix of other chromosomes that they can't be placed into the numbering system for human chromosomes. http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2011/2-arecancersne.jpg .
When some Darwinians try to make the claim that we have seen babies with a "fused chromosome" they are misrepresenting something else to make the “explanation” appear rational (which it is not). Others have pointed out that what this group is referring to (and re-interpreting of course) is what are called “Robertsonian Translocations”, which are a translocation of a chromosome, not a fused chromosome! In effect they are telling a lie that they know is a lie in order to persuade.
-_- the translocation of a chromosome is literally when part or all of a chromosome merges with another one. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Translocation-4-20.png this is what happens to make some people more likely to have kids with Down Syndrome.

But even if this example were to be accepted, these NEVER result in a change in the chromosome number (which is the implication they need you to buy into). Besides that, other scientifically obtained data refutes that chromosomal fusion occurs in either apes or humans.
In people that inherit the form of Down Syndrome that runs in families, it does change the chromosome number. Carriers themselves have no detrimental health affects despite having a huge portion of one chromosome get stuck to another and the rest on its own, and not all of their children will have Down Syndrome.

In 2010, Nature published a paper entitled "Chimpanzee and human Y chromosomes are remarkably divergent in structure and gene content", reveals that, in addition, the Y chromosomes of these two creatures are different in their genetic arrangement as well. So though many of the same genes are there, many are placed in different areas (thus not a sequential match), and many are arranged differently where they exist in the same place, and now thanks to ENCODE we know that when expressed they can affect different sets of other genes thus producing radically different effects. Now this is “effectively” a significant difference, but many will strive to explain it away or ignore its significance I am sure (as they must if the illusion of their hypothesis is to continue to be accepted as “established fact”).
The human Y chromosome has degraded a lot in a short amount of time. Even in ancient human DNA taken from mummies, the chromosome is way bigger and has more genes on it than in modern humans, and that's within a few thousand years. There are some ideas as to why that happened, but I think that explains the huge differences in that particular chromosome pretty well. In any case, most of the "missing" genes are present on the X chromosome anyways, so the genetic impact is not as big as you would think. It does make men more prone to being born with certain genetic problems and conditions, though, such as color blindness. To basically explain further, besides the genes directly tied to making biological structures associated with males, genes on the sex chromosomes are completely redundant. In the cells of women, only 1 X chromosome is active while the other is shut off completely (which one it is, the one that came from dad or mom, is completely random and varies from cell to cell). This is also why cases where people have extra sex chromosomes (examples being XXY, XXX, and others) don't have all that many phenotypic consequences compared to having extras of any other chromosome. Some can even reproduce. But I am getting off track. The same likely happened to chimpanzees and their Y chromosomes; it is detrimental to have energy expended on unnecessary active gene sites, but neither the whole X or Y chromosome in men can be turned off and produce a fertile and functioning male individual.

Sets of unique genes necessarily work together during embryonic development to form our unique bodies (each creature’s unique variations being dependent on this). The chimp Y chromosome has only half the genes that a human has (a 37:78 ratio). Their set contributes to making them physically a chimp, our set contributes to making us physically a human, and never the twain has ever met as far as the actual data can reveal.
Actually, pretty much all of the few genes on the human Y chromosome are for the development of the male reproductive system. In fact, during my many genetics classes (and classes that happened to talk about genetics), whenever the Y chromosome was brought up, instructors always commented on how the only genes on it that we know of are associated with generating biological sex. More genes does not equate to significantly different structure, especially considering how redundant they tend to be.

Aside from the difficulty of coordinating new genes into this apparently consistent process, mixing then into the set of existing genes would alter the structure and function of the creature (making them NOT what they are…the chimp would cease to be a chimp and the human would cease to be a human…or else they would be a sick or distorted version and nothing more).
The translocation associated with people more prone to having children with Down Syndrome doesn't physically harm the carrier. Physical location of a gene is practically irrelevant to it's function so long as the start codon and end codon go along for the ride. It isn't as if certain chromosomes behave differently than the others (aside from the X chromosomes in women that are rendered inactive). A gene will have the same function regardless as to where it is in a chromosome, or what chromosome it is on unless it is a sex chromosome.

And so I ask "Why insist it IS when there is no factual reason to believe it?" In the end it turns out to be Sci Fi....might be....could be...But an "established fact"? No! That it clearly is not....
There is literally no other reason a chromosome would have the remnants of a second centromere and telomeres in its center unless it was the result of two chromosomes getting stuck together. The limited function telomeres have only works if they are at the very ends; they exist as disposable segments that shorted every time our linear DNA replicates thanks to imperfection in replicating the lagging strand.

Creation is real, and evolution is real. I accept both. But I do not accept ALL that some “creation-ists” say these things mean, nor do I accept ALL that some “evolution-ists” say these things mean! What SOME creationists and SOME evolutionists say the things mean are merely point of view, opinion, and a lot of hypothesis based interpretation. Neither presumptions make it credible. Even inference is interpretation (the added human element).
That's a fair enough outlook, but I ask that you read more about chromosome 2 and why people think it is the result of two chromosomes merging. It's like looking at two different colored Lego blocks stuck together.

For example, to call a genetic difference between two creatures a “mutation” in one of them, can only truly be a mutation if one has examples of those creatures in a prior state showing this section or gene to have previously been different.
Just something to note as far as the genetic differences between, say, chimpanzees and humans, we don't determine which had the mutation just by comparing the two, but by comparing all modern apes. If there is a gene or genetic quirk found in only one ape species, it makes far more sense for a mutation to have occurred somewhere down the line in the ancestors exclusive to that species than it does for similar or identical mutations to have occurred in all the others. As a person that finds some validity in evolution, you must agree that much makes sense. Because only humans and no other modern apes have that strange chromosome that physically is two smaller ones stuck together, it makes a whole lot more sense for that to have been a fusion that occurred in human ancestors and not in the ancestors of other living apes than it does for there to have been some sort of split in all of their ancestors. Especially considering the fact that a lot of those apes are not very close genetically compared to, say, between humans and chimpanzees.

Also, if ancestry is shared, how else to explain the genetic differences than mutation?

In other words, we would have to be able to SHOW (demonstrate, observe) that it once was one thing in a genetic line and is now another, otherwise it’s presence is being imagined to be so, nothing more…it is an opinion of what the evidence means…and you know what they say about opinions…it could just be representative of what makes up two different unrelated creatures.
Chromosome 2 has structures that ONLY make sense if it was once two separate chromosomes.

Getting stuck on a popular idea or accepted hypothesis (whether YEC or EVO), or simply repeating it over and over is just a method of rationalization to maintain a position (or possibly to persuade others your belief/interpretation of these things is correct)…
Sure, but if you have doubts, be sure to read up on the material in question as best as you can.
 
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Loudmouth

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The reason why we think the chromosomes fused in human ancestors is the fact that one of our chromosomes has two centromere locations (one no longer functions, and both centromere locations match those found in two chromosomes in other apes) instead of the single one the rest of our chromosomes have. Furthermore, when you stick the two ape ones together, you pretty much can't tell between that and the actual human chromosome, which is chromosome 2 (except the X and Y chromosomes, they are numbered by size). Chromosome 2 is also unique in that it has telomeres (repeating segments found at the ends of chromosomes) in the middle of it. Does that not seem exactly like what two chromosomes merging together would result in?

In the most basic sense, the chromosomes found in chimps and other nonhuman apes alive today are like the two on the left, while the human one is like that on the right https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Chromosome2_merge.png
It would be weirder if this was caused by something other than the fusion of two chromosomes.


Look at the bottom two rows of this cancer cell's chromosomes. These are ones comprised so much of a mix of other chromosomes that they can't be placed into the numbering system for human chromosomes. http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2011/2-arecancersne.jpg .

-_- the translocation of a chromosome is literally when part or all of a chromosome merges with another one. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Translocation-4-20.png this is what happens to make some people more likely to have kids with Down Syndrome.


In people that inherit the form of Down Syndrome that runs in families, it does change the chromosome number. Carriers themselves have no detrimental health affects despite having a huge portion of one chromosome get stuck to another and the rest on its own, and not all of their children will have Down Syndrome.


The human Y chromosome has degraded a lot in a short amount of time. Even in ancient human DNA taken from mummies, the chromosome is way bigger and has more genes on it than in modern humans, and that's within a few thousand years. There are some ideas as to why that happened, but I think that explains the huge differences in that particular chromosome pretty well. In any case, most of the "missing" genes are present on the X chromosome anyways, so the genetic impact is not as big as you would think. It does make men more prone to being born with certain genetic problems and conditions, though, such as color blindness. To basically explain further, besides the genes directly tied to making biological structures associated with males, genes on the sex chromosomes are completely redundant. In the cells of women, only 1 X chromosome is active while the other is shut off completely (which one it is, the one that came from dad or mom, is completely random and varies from cell to cell). This is also why cases where people have extra sex chromosomes (examples being XXY, XXX, and others) don't have all that many phenotypic consequences compared to having extras of any other chromosome. Some can even reproduce. But I am getting off track. The same likely happened to chimpanzees and their Y chromosomes; it is detrimental to have energy expended on unnecessary active gene sites, but neither the whole X or Y chromosome in men can be turned off and produce a fertile and functioning male individual.


Actually, pretty much all of the few genes on the human Y chromosome are for the development of the male reproductive system. In fact, during my many genetics classes (and classes that happened to talk about genetics), whenever the Y chromosome was brought up, instructors always commented on how the only genes on it that we know of are associated with generating biological sex. More genes does not equate to significantly different structure, especially considering how redundant they tend to be.


The translocation associated with people more prone to having children with Down Syndrome doesn't physically harm the carrier. Physical location of a gene is practically irrelevant to it's function so long as the start codon and end codon go along for the ride. It isn't as if certain chromosomes behave differently than the others (aside from the X chromosomes in women that are rendered inactive). A gene will have the same function regardless as to where it is in a chromosome, or what chromosome it is on unless it is a sex chromosome.


There is literally no other reason a chromosome would have the remnants of a second centromere and telomeres in its center unless it was the result of two chromosomes getting stuck together. The limited function telomeres have only works if they are at the very ends; they exist as disposable segments that shorted every time our linear DNA replicates thanks to imperfection in replicating the lagging strand.


That's a fair enough outlook, but I ask that you read more about chromosome 2 and why people think it is the result of two chromosomes merging. It's like looking at two different colored Lego blocks stuck together.


Just something to note as far as the genetic differences between, say, chimpanzees and humans, we don't determine which had the mutation just by comparing the two, but by comparing all modern apes. If there is a gene or genetic quirk found in only one ape species, it makes far more sense for a mutation to have occurred somewhere down the line in the ancestors exclusive to that species than it does for similar or identical mutations to have occurred in all the others. As a person that finds some validity in evolution, you must agree that much makes sense. Because only humans and no other modern apes have that strange chromosome that physically is two smaller ones stuck together, it makes a whole lot more sense for that to have been a fusion that occurred in human ancestors and not in the ancestors of other living apes than it does for there to have been some sort of split in all of their ancestors. Especially considering the fact that a lot of those apes are not very close genetically compared to, say, between humans and chimpanzees.

Also, if ancestry is shared, how else to explain the genetic differences than mutation?


Chromosome 2 has structures that ONLY make sense if it was once two separate chromosomes.


Sure, but if you have doubts, be sure to read up on the material in question as best as you can.

For those who are interested, there is a man who is known to have 22 pairs of chromosomes due to a chromosomal fusion event:

http://genetics.thetech.org/original_news/news124

It is a stable fusion, and he doesn't suffer any illnesses or diseases because of it. The arrangement is also heritable. It is entirely possible that this trait could spread, and future populations of humans would have 22 chromosomes.

I don't know why creationists get in a tizzy about chromosomal fusions. We know they happen.
 
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PsychoSarah

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For those who are interested, there is a man who is known to have 22 pairs of chromosomes due to a chromosomal fusion event:

http://genetics.thetech.org/original_news/news124

It is a stable fusion, and he doesn't suffer any illnesses or diseases because of it. The arrangement is also heritable. It is entirely possible that this trait could spread, and future populations of humans would have 22 chromosomes.

I don't know why creationists get in a tizzy about chromosomal fusions. We know they happen.
The weirder thing about them: they can occur with no phenotypic effects. You'd think creationists wouldn't care about genetic changes that don't do anything.
 
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The weirder thing about them: they can occur with no phenotypic effects. You'd think creationists wouldn't care about genetic changes that don't do anything.

Wild horses (i.e. Przewalski's horse) and domestic horses have different numbers of chromosomes, and can still have offspring, albeit at a 50% fertilization rate compared to within species matings. Is that macroevolution? I guess it would be, according to creationists.
 
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DogmaHunter

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People make all sorts of assumption based conclusions. Look at this one....

We have 23 pairs of chromosomes which fuse at certain places while all apes have 24 and they do not fuse. YET the Darwinian spin when imposed would interpret this by saying that two ape chromosomes “fused” into a single chromosome resulting in humans having only 23 pairs of chromosome. Wow! What a presumption to explain away the data just because it throws a monkey wrench into their ape-man hypothesis. PEOPLE WAKE UP….we have absolutely NO EVIDENCE that that happened….it is an imposed presumption… a hypothesis based “interpretation” and nothing more.

Only if you stick your head in the sand.

We know chromosomal fusion happens sometimes.
Furthermore, the exact fusion site has been located. When we split that chromosome at that fusion site, we get an exact match with the chimp chromosomes 2 and 13 - exactly the one we are "missing" compared to the other great apes.

There's no assumption there. What there is, is extremely solid evidence of a fusion of chromosome 2 and 13 in our ape ancestors.

In truth we have not found one example of "chromosomal fusion" in mammals.

wrong again

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/26/1/199.full
 
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In another thread, an ID/Creationist made this statement:

"DNA communicates detailed instructional information which RNA detects carries out for the construction of living things."

Can any ID/creationist supporter please explain how this communication occurs? Is it by voice? E-mail? Telegraph? How exactly does this communication occur?

Ignorance has never prevented anyone from saying anything...

It is equal true to say:
"KEYS communicates detailed instructional information which LOCKS detects carries out for the opening of doors."

But what do we learn from saying 'a key communicates with a look and tells the lock to open the door'? Nothing. This is the very same reason why the concept of information is of very limited use when it comes to DNA/RNA.

It never stop amaze me how people can keep talking about nothing wile they at the very same time actually think they are talking about something. This is why science work and other methods not: you actually have to prove that you know what you are talking about - that it works - not just make claims.
 
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