One piece, the Kalam

[durangodawood]

This thread reminds why "theology" is such an awful enterprise.

A realm/being/order thats defined in non-sensible terms should not be perused via an "-ology". I think poetry or dance would be much more appropriate.

 

[Hieronymus]

So why does God get to escape this requirement (having a cause), but the universe doesn't?

We've been through that many many times, dear sir...

 

[Archaeopteryx]

No you haven't.

Yes I did:

Okay, let's consider this for a moment. If the beginning of the universe is the beginning of time, then the universe always existed, in the sense that it has existed for all time.

 

[bhsmte]

You helped.

How, be specific, if that is possible to support your claim about me.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

This thread reminds why "theology" is such an awful enterprise.

A realm/being/order thats defined in non-sensible terms should not be perused via an "-ology". I think poetry or dance would be much more appropriate.

There's mythology. I enjoy mythology, but I'm not religious about it.

 

[Hieronymus]

Are you going to explain it or not?

I already have, repeatedly...
Apparently it's pointless, so you tell me why i would or should.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

We've been through that many many times, dear sir...

Yeah, and you've continually evaded my questions.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I already have, repeatedly...
Apparently it's pointless, so you tell me why i would or should.

Because you introduced the term! Who else do you expect to explain what "ex universe" means?

 

[Hieronymus]

How, be specific, if that is possible to support your claim about me.

It's not a claim, it's my opinion, my impression (or rather your impression on me), my perception, my experience.
What do you care anyway?

 

[bhsmte]

It's not a claim, it's my opinion, my impression (or rather your impression on me), my perception, my experience.
What do you care anyway?

Ok, so you didnt claim that i was not credible?

 

[Hieronymus]

Because you introduced the term! Who else do you expect to explain what "ex universe" means?

Dear Lord.....
ex means from outside.
Outside of...? the universe.
Things do not cause themselves, you see.
What does not exist can not make itself start to exist.
But i bet you disagree with that too...

Either way, this is the subject of the discussion forpages now,so i find it hard to believe you don't understand what you disagree with.

 

[Hieronymus]

Ok, so you didnt claim that i was not credible?

To me you are not credible.
That is, in this (type of) discussion.

 

[bhsmte]

Dear Lord.....
ex means from outside.
Outside of...? the universe.
Things do not cause themselves, you see.
What does not exist can not make itself start to exist.
But i bet you disagree with that too...

What caused god?

 

[bhsmte]

To me you are not credible.
That is, in this (type of) discussion.

Would i be correct to conclude, you will not care to expain specifically how you reached this conclusion?

 

[durangodawood]

What caused god?

"Caused God"

More non-sense, in that God is proposed to exist outside of time. And "cause" only has meaning in-time.

 

[Chriliman]

Meaning is lost when the discussion goes from a legitimate desire to understand the truth to endless back and forth due to pride that says "I'm right and you're wrong". When in reality it's the truth that's right and we're the ones who need to accept the truth.

But at least we have the freedom to walk away and move on and search for truth elsewhere.

 

[Hieronymus]

So why does God get to escape this requirement (having a cause), but the universe doesn't? Presumably you will say because God didn't "begin to exist,"

Can the first cause be caused?
No, because then it wouldn't be the first cause.
Forgive me for not expecting this is way too complicated for you.
I assumed since you can write,you can understand logical reasoning.
My bad...

 

[bhsmte]

Meaning is lost when the discussion goes from a legitimate desire to understand the truth to endless back and forth due to pride that says "I'm right and you're wrong". When in reality it's the truth that's right and we're the ones who need to accept the truth.

But at least we have the freedom to walk away and move on and search for truth elsewhere.

Yes, you can always walk away, when arguments are blown out of the water.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Dear Lord.....
ex means from outside.
Outside of...? the universe.
Things do not cause themselves, you see.
What does not exist can not make itself start to exist.
But i bet you disagree with that too...

Either way, this is the subject of the discussion forpages now,so i find it hard to believe you don't understand what you disagree with.

What does "outside" the universe mean? I'm not sure if it's even intelligible to talk of an "outside," but perhaps you could illuminate that further.

 

[Chriliman]

Yes, you can always walk away, when arguments are blown out of the water.

Where's the love? Where's the desire to truly understand each other? If I don't see this desire in other's then I will move on.