Explosions in Brussels

[Oafman]

No assimilation is occurring.

If every child of every immigrant was a terrorist, you might have a point.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Or hey, we can go back to how the continental powers wiped out the Ottoman empire and then split up the area like thieves..... but then we wouldn't be blaming this on America...

No, we can't.

The US went into Iraq in an illegal war and then left the country in chaos. ISIS was a direct result of that chaos.

I never said the US did it on puprose.
But it is simply a fact that the chaos left behind by the US army is what made it possible for ISIS to grow in power and influence. There's no way around that.

OR we can stop pretending that middle easterners have no agency and blame them for it.

Not really.
When you go into a country, destroy its infrastructure and then leave it in ruins at the mercy of militia's, then this is what you get if the strongest militia happens to be a gang of brutal monkeys.

 

[nightflight]

If every child of every immigrant was a terrorist, you might have a point.

Ah, the "every single one" argument again.

 

[nightflight]

These people were born and raised in Belgium. They were as Belgian as me.

Also, I don't want people to "assimilate". I only want them to "integrate". There's a difference.

How's that working out?

 

[PatrickT]

Do you really wish to invoke international law here? Because your entire rant is in violation of it:

The Contracting States shall accord to refugees within their territories treatment at least as favorable as that accorded to their nationals with respect to freedom to practice their religion and freedom as regards the religious education of their children.

By any and all accounts, the contracting states of the UN that signed the treaties concerning refugess, are legally bound to do everything they can to help refugees according to the rules of the treaty.

ALL contracting parties. Not just those that border the countries the refugees are feeling from.

Also, are you know saying that you would be happy to take in millions upon millions of refugees, if Germany happened to border Syria?

Who are you trying to fool, dude?



A single country can't handle all those refugees. Other states that signed the UN treaty are legally bound to help out.



You insinuated that the people that used to live there aren't really fleeing the city in fear of their very lives, but that they are rather in search of "money and luxury".

But good job and pretending otherwise.

Go and sue us then if you are unhappy with our fence and policies.

 

[Oafman]

Ah, the "every single one" argument again.

My post was in response to the assertion that 'no assimilation is occurring'.

Clearly, some is. Quite a lot, given the ratio of terrorists to overall immigration over recent decades.

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

You may chose your way. I have chosen mine. I see this threat and i will work towards its resolution. I won´t allow that my families and friends security is sacrificed on the shrine of political correctness.

The fence in Idomeni is a first fire wall. But it is only part of the solution. Those who are respectable and innocent can blame their evil companions for their fate.

Granted. Let us agree to disagree. I am afraid of whatever terrible consequences your way may bring, and you are afraid of whatever terrible consequences my way may bring. Let us agree to disagree, vote for whomever we want, and hope for the best to happen.

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

Because we hate Sharia Law and refuse to tolerate it.

Ah! So the Sharia Law does not place any problem for us. You are just intolerant regarding other religions.

I see that you are a Catholic. What if I said I hated Catholicism and refused to tolerate it?

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

They are the recruitment pool for the jihadists.

They think bashing a woman's head in with rocks for sex crimes (like having sex) is OK. They espouse gender apartheid and domestic violence including honor killings.

Anyone who espouses Islamic Sharia law over the secular based legal system of a non-Islamic country should never be allowed to migrate to a non-Islamic country.

It's the islamists that think it's OK for the jihadists to kill you. Or at least won't say anything about it.

Hmm… I have serious doubts that what you have espoused there is really unbiased. Many Muslims condemn these attacks, and I do not think that those statistics which you have presented remain unbiased.

 

[TerranceL]

No, we can't.

The US went into Iraq in an illegal war and then left the country in chaos. ISIS was a direct result of that chaos.

I never said the US did it on puprose.
But it is simply a fact that the chaos left behind by the US army is what made it possible for ISIS to grow in power and influence. There's no way around that.

Whoa whoa whoa what happened to the finger pointing? I was just pointing out that the Iraq war never would have happened in the first place if the continental powers hadn't decided to partition the Ottoman empire with no idea of what the locals wanted or needed.

You take three groups of people who generally dislike each other, the Kurds, the Sunni and the Shiites and tell them instead of getting their own nations they have to live together, then to top it off who is put into power? The Sunni minority, ensuring the that Sunni and Shia continue to hate each other. Then after you create this powder keg you blame someone else when it goes off in their face.

Not really.
When you go into a country, destroy its infrastructure and then leave it in ruins at the mercy of militia's, then this is what you get if the strongest militia happens to be a gang of brutal monkeys.

Like the aftermath of the Yugoslavian war... oh wait...

 

[brinny]

Praying.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Good job on ignoring the point that was made.

Which, obviously, was that American wars in Iraq is what paved the way for ISIS to form and grow.

They helped the situation along, true.

But this was always going to happen, regardless of America and this is just a resurgence of the same stuff that has been happening periodically for 1400 years, America was just the excuse those of that mindset were looking for.

 

[All Englands Skies]

They helped the situation along, true.

But this was always going to happen, regardless of America and this is just a resurgence of the same stuff that has been happening periodically for 1400 years, America was just the excuse those of that mindset were looking for.

Also to me, 9/11 was the bait and the west took it, it achieved what the Islamists wanted, we fell straight into a trap.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

This attack was targeting the EU- Brussels is its administrative centre. The Paris attack also was targeting the EU in its largest continental city and on the occasion of a France-Germany football match. But despite the political context it is innocent people that have died. ISIS committed these murders deliberately

ISIS killed people deliberately in Turkey as well in the January 2016 Istanbul bombing and the March 2016 Istanbul bombing (which occurred just this past Saturday, not a week after TAK, an offshoot of the PKK, did their bombing in order to kill innocent people deliberately).

The attack in Ankara was a mistake by the Kurds.

A mistake? How do you come to the conclusion that blowing up the car next to numerous buses was a mistake? Furthermore, TAK (Kurdish terrorist group that is an offshoot of the PKK) specifically said previously:

"We warn the foreign and native tourists not go to the touristic areas in Turkey. We are not responsible for who will die in the attacks targeting those areas," it said.

Kurdish militants claim Ankara bombing, warn foreign tourists

"Tourism is one of the important sources feeding the dirty and special war, so it is a major target we aim to destroy," the TAK said at the time.

Istanbul explosion: Suicide bomber had ISIS links, says Turkey's interior minister

They are deliberately targeting areas tourists frequent and killing them. That is no mistake.

The PKK is not Marxist ( Democratic confederalist with a strong focus on equality for example for women is better). But NATO and the EU regards them as terrorists. Though sympathetic to the cause of Kurdish nationalism I do not agree with terrorism.

The group, which has Marxist-Leninist roots, was formed in the late 1970s and launched an armed struggle against the Turkish government in 1984, calling for an independent Kurdish state within Turkey.

Profile: Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK)

Your a Sunni you do not like Shias and Hezbollah and many of the others are no better than the Sunni Salafists.

Point being that they're not just running away from ISIS, they're running away from Shi'a militias as well. Furthermore, there are those who are likely described as salafi jihadis among the rebels who are fighting against ISIS and those Shi'a militias.

Assad is the only one protecting Christians - none of the others seem remotely concerned about the genocide against them except perhaps the Kurds in Iraq.

What genocide against Christians in Syria? Where have the rebel groups committed genocide of them? How many instances and by which groups? Of the (at least) "56 major massacres displaying obvious sectarian or ethnic cleansing traits......49 were carried out by Syrian government forces or local and foreign militia allies of President Bashar al-Assad."

A Damning Indictment of Syrian President Assad’s Systematic Massacres

You don't seem remotely concerned about the present-day genocide against the Sunnis at the hands of Assad and his allies (including Christians) and are more concerned about a possibility of a genocide against Christians (not a real, present-day one like the one against Sunnis) without much evidence that such a genocide will occur in Syria.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Beside that i find your laughing smiley out of taste regarding this. Did you ever lose someone close to you through something like this? I would never make a joke about 911 because i can see how much sadness and desperation this created in the USA...yet you offer me a smiley and a cynical comment.

You make me sick.

Do you actually say this with a straight face after your "'refugee' invasion of Europe finally comes to an end" thread? You were happy over the sadness and desperation created by telling refugees who are fleeing genocide that they won't be finding refuge in Europe any longer. You seemingly gleefully posted pictures of the refugees who are losing hope in camps as well as those crossing a river. You even posted a smiley after one of these pictures, if I recall correctly! As for the smiley face (is it no longer tasteless?):

Go and sue us then if you are unhappy with our fence and policies.

Also, take a look at:

No, you make me throw up. I find it distrubing that you use the death of people for your agenda.

vs.

Each such attack adds more fuel and considering the amount of votes right wing parties get recently we sure will have a clean Europe soon.

 

[mindlight]

ISIS killed people deliberately in Turkey as well in the January 2016 Istanbul bombing and the March 2016 Istanbul bombing (which occurred just this past Saturday, not a week after TAK, an offshoot of the PKK, did their bombing in order to kill innocent people deliberately).

Which makes a mockery of Turkish government policy of prioritising the removal of Assad who has not attacked Turkey at all.

A mistake? How do you come to the conclusion that blowing up the car next to numerous buses was a mistake? Furthermore, TAK (Kurdish terrorist group that is an offshoot of the PKK) specifically said previously:

"We warn the foreign and native tourists not go to the touristic areas in Turkey. We are not responsible for who will die in the attacks targeting those areas," it said.

Kurdish militants claim Ankara bombing, warn foreign tourists

"Tourism is one of the important sources feeding the dirty and special war, so it is a major target we aim to destroy," the TAK said at the time.

Istanbul explosion: Suicide bomber had ISIS links, says Turkey's interior minister

They are deliberately targeting areas tourists frequent and killing them. That is no mistake.

By mistake I mean a mistaken strategy. I agree with you that killing innocent people is an act of evil and I do not believe this will help their cause, which I actually support.

The group, which has Marxist-Leninist roots, was formed in the late 1970s and launched an armed struggle against the Turkish government in 1984, calling for an independent Kurdish state within Turkey.

Profile: Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK)

Selective quoting! They renounced Marxism in 1999. Democratic confederalists is the ideology now with a strong focus on equality for women. They are not even looking for an independent state now.

Point being that they're not just running away from ISIS, they're running away from Shi'a militias as well. Furthermore, there are those who are likely described as salafi jihadis among the rebels who are fighting against ISIS and those Shi'a militias.

Al Nusra and ISIS are 2 sides of the Salafi Jihadi ideology in my view. The Wahabbis, the Taliban, Boko Haram are all in the same contemptible group. Shia militias like Hezbollah are a different kind of problem but not the major one right now.

What genocide against Christians in Syria? Where have the rebel groups committed genocide of them? How many instances and by which groups?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/17/john-kerry-isis-genocide-syria-iraq

Of the (at least) "56 major massacres displaying obvious sectarian or ethnic cleansing traits......49 were carried out by Syrian government forces or local and foreign militia allies of President Bashar al-Assad."

A Damning Indictment of Syrian President Assad’s Systematic Massacres

You don't seem remotely concerned about the present-day genocide against the Sunnis at the hands of Assad and his allies (including Christians) and are more concerned about a possibility of a genocide against Christians (not a real, present-day one like the one against Sunnis) without much evidence that such a genocide will occur in Syria.

The Shia - Sunni civil war within Islam has been going on for 1400 years. It is a tragedy that you guys hate each other so much and kill each other so often but it is pretty normal in the Middle east and neither side can claim to be innocent in this conflict. Christians by contrast are mainly the powerless victims of Muslim aggression as are the Yazidis.

 

[PatrickT]

Do you actually say this with a straight face after your "'refugee' invasion of Europe finally comes to an end" thread? You were happy over the sadness and desperation created by telling refugees who are fleeing genocide that they won't be finding refuge in Europe any longer. You seemingly gleefully posted pictures of the refugees who are losing hope in camps as well as those crossing a river. You even posted a smiley after one of these pictures, if I recall correctly! As for the smiley face (is it no longer tasteless?):



Also, take a look at:


vs.

I think i already made clear that i have no positive feelings, no compassion nor sympathy for your people. You use a terrorist organisation as your avatar.

P.s.: I´m happy that germany supports al-Sisi.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Which makes a mockery of Turkish government policy of prioritising the removal of Assad who has not attacked Turkey at all.

Maybe Turkey takes acceding the Genocide Convention seriously and thinks of genocide (especially on its border) as a bigger threat. Furthermore, the regime/allies have been targeting Syrian Turkmen.

By mistake I mean a mistaken strategy. I agree with you that killing innocent people is an act of evil and I do not believe this will help their cause, which I actually support.

That's good to hear.

Selective quoting! They renounced Marxism in 1999. Democratic confederalists is the ideology now with a strong focus on equality for women. They are not even looking for an independent state now.

That wasn't selective quoting from the article. They do have Marxist roots and I doubt that they're free from Marxist beliefs. Even if they are, they're still radical/extremist/terrorist separatists/secularists/nationalists/leftists. This article shows that some (I presume) Kurdish academics themselves believe the PKK to have Marxist beliefs:

Emel Elif Tugdar, an assistant professor at the University of Kurdistan who studies ethno-politics in the region, agrees. “People here are wealthy,” she says, and don't share the party's Marxist-Leninist principles. “Joining the PKK, they would have too much to lose.”

Also,

“They collaborated with the Syrian regime initially,” says a lawyer from the Syrian town of Qamishli who fled for Erbil in 2012. When he spoke out against the same cronyism and repression for which he’d criticized Assad’s regime, the lawyer says, “I went from being a hero to a traitor.” He estimates that at least 30 percent of Syrian Kurds in Erbil left because they feared PKK rule.

Another refugee from Qamishli, a college student who left last year, says her sister was threatened with death for criticizing the PKK. The woman, who declined to give her name, says the group’s popularity here will be short-lived. “The PKK will reveal themselves.”

After repelling ISIL, PKK fighters are the new heroes of Kurdistan

Al Nusra and ISIS are 2 sides of the Salafi Jihadi ideology in my view. The Wahabbis, the Taliban, Boko Haram are all in the same contemptible group. Shia militias like Hezbollah are a different kind of problem but not the major one right now.

Why are they a different kind of problem? Whatever ISIS has done, Shi'a militias in Iraq and Syria have done the exact same, if not worse. They burn entire families alive, they behead people, and I've seen a video of them cutting off the ear of a living, conscious man (and I think that's the video where he also ate that ear).

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/17/john-kerry-isis-genocide-syria-iraq

Kerry saying that there is a genocide of Christians in Syria does not make it so. There was no proof mentioned in the article. And if it's referring to ISIS committing a genocide, Assad pretty much ignores ISIS. The rebels are the ones who fight ISIS. So really what should be said is that the rebels are protecting Christians.

The Shia - Sunni civil war within Islam has been going on for 1400 years. It is a tragedy that you guys hate each other so much and kill each other so often but it is pretty normal in the Middle east and neither side can claim to be innocent in this conflict. Christians by contrast are mainly the powerless victims of Muslim aggression as are the Yazidis.

1.) Christians (the leadership, at least) are not the powerless victims in Syria. The church actively sides with the regime, thus being complicit in the genocide of the Sunnis. Yet you say that it's just something normal for genocide against the Sunnis to take place.

2.) One side is the one that committed the most evil. The regime/allies killed about 200,000 of the documented civilian casualties (96% of the total documented civilian casualties). Yet it seems like you're proposing ignoring this because Assad supposedly protects Christians (even though he essentially ignores ISIS)?

fyi, please read about Ayman Abdulnour (a Christian): A close university friend of Bashar al-Assad, Ayman Abdulnour served as an adviser to al-Assad during the years he was being groomed for the Syrian presidency following the unexpected death of his brother in 1994....Last year, Abdulnour founded Syrian Christians for Peace, a pro-opposition humanitarian organization that distributes aid inside Syria. The group’s work also counters the regime-led narrative that Christians support the regime. He denounces the regime’s manipulation of Syrian Christians’ fears of strict Muslim rule in Syria

He said:

A: We have a problem, I recognize, that a number of priests are connected and have interests with the regime. We are asking the Christian community still in Syria to withstand this, to preserve their numbers because a group can’t have political weight in an emergency if it has left what it considers a hotel, not a nation to be defended.

.....We must prevent the regime from using the media to spread the idea that the regime protects minorities, and that without the regime’s protection Christians would not exist. [The regime perpetrates the idea that] Christians didn’t exist in Syria or the Middle East before the regime.

Therefore, we put the word “Christian” in the organization’s name as a direct response so that people know Christians are active participants in the Syrian revolution, and that the word of peace comes from Jesus’s message. Another goal is to collect the energy of Christian youth and priests involved in the revolution in order to support it to the best of our abilities

.

‘Christians are active participants in the Syrian revolution’ – Ayman Abdulnour

 

[twob4me]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~MOD HAT ON!!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is just a reminder to everyone to please remember the Board Rules when posting. The thread probably should have a clean up done but there are a lot of pages to go through to do that and it is possible that a thread clean up may still be done.

So please, from this Mod Hat forward, be kind and respectful to everyone when posting. Remember that you are to address the content of a members post NOT the member personally. So if you notice a post of yours missing it was more than likely removed in a small clean up here and there within the thread.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~MOD HAT OFF!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Saleena]

The hatred started with Patrick T's remarks to be honest. And of course those who follow the course he sets.
Pray for the people of Belgium and all of Europe. Pray for this forum that individuals like that aren't banned so as to keep the peace.

Hatred is a virus. Every member of ISIS started out hating America, Infidels, those not like them.

God's mercy be with his people. And God's justice find the evil that is responsible for Brussels and act swiftly to rectify the trespass against innocence.

Yes it is. It decays a person from the inside out.