Mandatory seat belt laws are tyrannical

[Tallguy88]

What right does the government have to force me to wear a seat belt? I am an adult. I own my body and am responsible for assessing risk and acting accordingly. If I choose not to wear a seat belt for myself, what basis does the government have to force me to wear one?

It's a violation of my personal liberty and right to privacy.

Btw, I always wear a seat belt. But I do so because I choose to. The state has no right to force me to comply with its laws about safety, when I am the only one who would suffer harm from failure to comply.

Discuss.

 

[aieyiamfu]

What right does the government have to force me to wear a seat belt? I am an adult. I own my body and am responsible for assessing risk and acting accordingly. If I choose not to wear a seat belt for myself, what basis does the government have to force me to wear one?

It's a violation of my personal liberty and right to privacy.

Btw, I always wear a seat belt. But I do so because I choose to. The state has no right to force me to comply with its laws about safety, when I am the only one who would suffer harm from failure to comply.

Discuss.

What you say is 100% accurate. The purpose of government should not be to protect people from themselves, that is a personal choice and responsibility. The prevailing attitude today seems to be that we need a government to legislate our safety and morality in every way, even if we must live in a police state to achieve this.

I am personal anti-state as it is so laws like these really get my goat. I have the common sense to see that a seat belt is the way to go, and my kids know to buckle as soon as we get in the car, we did not require any government intervention to come to this conclusion.

 

[Armoured]

What right does the government have to force me to wear a seat belt? I am an adult. I own my body and am responsible for assessing risk and acting accordingly. If I choose not to wear a seat belt for myself, what basis does the government have to force me to wear one?

It's a violation of my personal liberty and right to privacy.

Btw, I always wear a seat belt. But I do so because I choose to. The state has no right to force me to comply with its laws about safety, when I am the only one who would suffer harm from failure to comply.

Discuss.

How do you feel about poison labelling laws?

 

[Armoured]

What you say is 100% accurate. The purpose of government should not be to protect people from themselves, that is a personal choice and responsibility. The prevailing attitude today seems to be that we need a government to legislate our safety and morality in every way, even if we must live in a police state to achieve this.

I am personal anti-state as it is so laws like these really get my goat. I have the common sense to see that a seat belt is the way to go, and my kids know to buckle as soon as we get in the car, we did not require any government intervention to come to this conclusion.

That's great and all, until you're in a head on accident, and spend the next 47 years needing full time nursing care and about a million dollars worth of surgery.

 

[aieyiamfu]

How do you feel about poison labelling laws?

How is this relevant to the question at hand?

 

[Armoured]

How is this relevant to the question at hand?

If it wasn't obvious, my point is a basic "where do you draw the line?" comment. Seatbelts are tyrannical? How about other safety laws?

 

[aieyiamfu]

That's great and all, until you're in a head on accident, and spend the next 47 years needing full time nursing care and about a million dollars worth of surgery.

How does this justify the law?

 

[aieyiamfu]

If it wasn't obvious, my point is a basic "where do you draw the line?" comment. Seatbelts are tyrannical? How about other safety laws?

I guess I was unclear. I am really not big on laws so labeling poison seems out of bounds as well, but not because it infringes on personal liberty, but because a company with its own best interest in mind would need to label them anyway.

 

[aieyiamfu]

If it wasn't obvious, my point is a basic "where do you draw the line?" comment. Seatbelts are tyrannical? How about other safety laws?

Laws in general are tyrannical, unless they pertain to an actual crime. Crime is where violence is used by one party to hurt or steal from another party, like the government does. That funny we allow the biggest criminals decide what is a crime and what is not.

 

[Armoured]

How does this justify the law?

Because I suppose you're going to want all that surgery, care from others, expense to the community and family in general? As such, the state, on behalf of all interested parties, has an obligation to try to mitigate reasonably foreseeable harm.

Personally, if someone is too dumb to wear a seatbelt, it's no skin off my nose if they become a vegetable for life. However, things like that don't just affect the one person injured.

 

[Armoured]

Laws in general are tyrannical, unless they pertain to an actual crime. Crime is where violence is used by one party to hurt or steal from another party, like the government does. That funny we allow the biggest criminals decide what is a crime and what is not.

Uh-huh. 1st year social studies libertarian, are we?

 

[Albion]

How does this justify the law?

Do you have private insurance sufficient to cover those costs? If so, I'd say you are entitled. I also am offering to sell my property in the swamp for whoever wants to build a luxury hotel there.

 

[aieyiamfu]

Because I suppose you're going to want all that surgery, care from others, expense to the community and family in general? As such, the state, on behalf of all interested parties, has an obligation to try to mitigate reasonably foreseeable harm.

Personally, if someone is to dumb to wear a seatbelt, it's no skin of my nose if they become a vegetable for life. However, things like that don't just affect the one person injured.

I follow your reasoning, but does the end justify the means? By your logic the government should bubble wrap us and lock us in a cage for life as to mitigate any risk (better keep that quiet or some politician somewhere will get ideas). I by the way have an abounding amount of common sense so I am a big enough boy to put on my seatbelt

 

[Armoured]

Do you have private insurance sufficient to cover those costs? If so, I'd say you are entitled. I also am offering to sell my property in the swamp for whoever wants to build a luxury hotel there.

If medical costs to you were the only cost involved in your magical journey through the windshield, I'd agree with you. However, such cases are extremely rare, if not non-existent.

 

[aieyiamfu]

Uh-huh. 1st year social studies libertarian, are we?

I would not really consider myself a libertarian, I am more of a non-statist, but I understand your need to have the government tell you what to do and protect you and what you have at every turn. By the way what do you think the cost to society for the care of soldiers injuries by unjust war, I myself lost a lung and sustained some other injuries as a result of serving in Iraq, including surgeries, an oxygen machine and all the doctors, I have estimated that the cost if I make it to 72 will be in the 60 million range, Society would probably be better off if I just didn't wear my seatbelt. There are hundreds of thousands like me or even way worse, missing legs, arms, traumatic brain injury etc..

 

[aieyiamfu]

If medical costs to you were the only cost involved in your magical journey through the windshield, I'd agree with you. However, such cases are extremely rare, if not non-existent.

Seatbelt do not stop accidents.

 

[Armoured]

I follow your reasoning, but does the end justify the means? By your logic the government should bubble wrap us and lock us in a cage for life as to mitigate any risk (better keep that quiet or some politician somewhere will get ideas). I by the way have an abounding amount of common sense so I am a big enough boy to put on my seatbelt

Note my use of the word "reasonably".

As for having common sense, good for you. I almost killed someone two days ago who probably thinks the same thing. In a momentary lapse, she didn't check a mirror before exiting a driver's side door right onto a busy road, and if I had been a hair's breadth less alert, I'd have sandwiched her between her door and the front of the heavy vehicle I was driving at the time. It's still pretty fresh in my mind. But I can give you any number of day to day examples from personally experience, without even beginning to dip into my experience as a nurse, where I would have treated quite literally hundreds of adults abounding in common sense who nonetheless managed to find new and exciting ways to horrifically injure themselves in a momentary lapse.

I myself have a permanent titanium plate in my left middle finger from a case of "seemed like a good idea at the time" incident which took less than 2 seconds to occur, and I can assure you I find myself perfectly sensible and possessed of common sense.

For arguments sake, look up road fatalities per capita for your jurisdiction for the 10 years before seatbelt laws and the 10 years after.

 

[Armoured]

I would not really consider myself a libertarian, I am more of a non-statist, but I understand your need to have the government tell you what to do and protect you and what you have at every turn.

Oh, so straight to the strawmanning, huh? Nice.

By the way what do you think the cost to society for the care of soldiers injuries by unjust war, I myself lost a lung and sustained some other injuries as a result of serving in Iraq, including surgeries, an oxygen machine and all the doctors, I have estimated that the cost if I make it to 72 will be in the 60 million range, Society would probably be better off if I just didn't wear my seatbelt. There are hundreds of thousands like me or even way worse, missing legs, arms, traumatic brain injury etc..

And I cost the tax payer plenty for my issues stemming from my service in Iraq too. Two wrongs don't make a right, though. Throwing away money on unnecessary wars doesn't mean it's a good idea to throw away money on preventable injuries.

And that's before we even consider the non-financial cost of road accidents.

 

[Armoured]

Seatbelt do not stop accidents.

No one said they did.

 

[Murby]

Armoured is right in this.. you others are wrong.
I covered this subject in depth a long time ago.

When you are injured or killed in an auto accident, consider all the other people who are affected.. Just from a pure financial viewpoint.
If we remove the seat belt law the it would only be fair to remove the requirement for an insurance company to pay out coverage.. Life insurance, medical coverage, etc.
We should also then remove or severely limit any liability of the automotive companies for defects of the vehicles..

Wearing a seat belt is not about you or your rights.. its about everyone else.