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Pagan Sun worship in early Christianity?

Wgw

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The persecution had largely ended before Constantine's conversion.

Untrue; it continued in full force until the Edict of Milan. Indeed, it was at its absolute worst during the reign of Diocletian as the senior Augustus; St. Constantine was a psrt of the Diocletian tetrarchy.

Besides, it was mostly driven by Galerius, not Diocletian, if you look at the sources.

Diocletian was the leader of the Tetrarchy; the buck stopped with him, althoufh Galerius was also a monster.

The Romans persecuted Christianity in fits and starts and in no way consistently.

Historically, yes, until the death of Marcus Aurelius. Then a sustained persecutiom began. This abated for a time before Diocletian and the Dominate came to power; a respite known as the Little Peace of the Church. Then under Diocletian, the most severe persecution imaginable began, and it ended only with the Great Peace under St. Constantine.

Of the bishops at Nicea, a great many, like St. Nicholas of Myra, had been tortured just a few decades previously.

There was no real program to attempt its eradication, even from Nero who merely sought a convenient scapegoat.

That is true during the Principate. However, during the Diocletian persecution, an actual attempt to exterminate Christianity was made; the Empire was besieged by horrible floods, plagues and natural disasters, and Diocletian believed hese were punishments from the gods for infidelity and lack of worship and sacrificial service offered to them by the Christians. Thus the goal of the Diocletian Persecution was to coerce the Christians into serving the Pagan gods, or failing that, to kill them, so that the gods would be appeased.

Amusingly, after St. Constantine embraced Christianity, things got better.

The Moors in Spain was not a sudden defeat, it was a slow and piecemeal Reconquista. Unless, you were thinking of the Almohads? But even then, not a sudden reversal.

The downfall of the USSR and even the conversion of the Roman Empire were not isolated events, but processes. The glory of God is reflected in the Spanish reconquista.

The Ottoman Empire also had more than a hundred years of slow decay as the Sick Man of Europe before its fall. Its fall actually really precipitated the persecution of Christians, when they were in power, they were quite tolerant.

This is utterly false, as any Armenian, Syriac or Assyrian Christian, or Pontic Greek will tell you. The Ottoman Empire was scarcely tolerant; it was about as friendly to Christians as the oresent Iranian regime is, and at that, only for reasons of commercial interests, to trade with the French, Russians, British et al. Firstborn soms were taken away from their Christian parents and converted to Islam, to serve as Janissaries.

The collapse of the Ottoman Empire in Eastern Europe was directly precipitated by horrible attrocities comitted in Bulgaria and Romania by the bashi bazouks, in an attempt to quell a rebellion; these had the effect of consolidating support among Europeans for Romanian and Bulgarian nationalism; meanwhile, the Austrians confiscated the Balkans.

Its a nice thought, for which I applaud you, but the history isn't very sound I am afraid.

It is, actually. You simply I fear have not adequetely read up on the history of the Eastern Church.
 
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Wgw

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Persecution of Christians ended with Constantine. Then began the longest and most vicious persecution the world has seen --- the persecution of the Pagans by the Christians.

Untrue. Completely untrue. The pagan religion was dying off in the Roman Empire, whereas pagans elsewhere continued to violently persecute Christians until...well, the present. Last year Hindus raped elderly Catholic nuns in Delhi, for instance.

The worst persecution the world has ever seen was rhe persecution of Christians began by the Arian heretics under Constantius, which continued under Islam; Mohammed was "evangelized" by an Arian monk, before developimg his own theology under the influence of a demon impersonating St. Ganriel. And the Islamic persecution of Christians is the very worst in all history, rivalled only by the Atheist persecution of Christians by the USSR, the PRC, the Warsaw Pact, and other Communist regimes (especially Enver Hoxha).
 
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JackRT

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314 ---Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks the Gentiles: The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of the Goddess Artemis.

324 ---At Dydima, Asia Minor, Constantine sacks the Oracle of God Apollo and tortures its Pagan priests to death. He evicts the Gentiles from Mt. Athos and destroys all local Hellenic Temples.


326 ---Emperor Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the Temple of the God Asclepius in Aigeai of Cilicia and many Temples of the Goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenice, Baalbek, etc..


330 ---Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the Pagan Temples in Greece to decorate Nova Roma (Constantinople), the new capital of his Empire.


335 ---Constantine sacks many Pagan Temples of Asia Minor and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers". Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatros.


341 ---Emperor Constas, son of Constantinus, persecutes "all the soothsayers and the Hellenists". Many Gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed.


346 ---New large-scale persecutions of the Gentiles in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius, who is accused of being a "magician".


353 ---An edict of Constantius decrees the death penalty for all forms of worship involving sacrifice and "idols".


354 ---A new edict of Constantius orders the closing of all Pagan Temples. Some of them are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms. Executions of Pagan priests. The first burning of libraries in various cities of the Empire. The first lime factories are built next to closed Pagan Temples. A large part of Sacred Gentile architecture is turned into lime.


356 ---A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the Pagan Temples and the execution of all "idolaters".


357 ---Constantius outlaws all methods of Divination (Astrology not excluded).


359 ---In Skythopolis, Syria, christians organise the first death camps for the torture and execution of arrested Gentiles from all around the Empire.

That's just a small sample of the first half century.

http://www.rassias.gr/9011.html
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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Untrue; it continued in full force until the Edict of Milan. Indeed, it was at its absolute worst during the reign of Diocletian as the senior Augustus; St. Constantine was a psrt of the Diocletian tetrarchy.



Diocletian was the leader of the Tetrarchy; the buck stopped with him, althoufh Galerius was also a monster.



Historically, yes, until the death of Marcus Aurelius. Then a sustained persecutiom began. This abated for a time before Diocletian and the Dominate came to power; a respite known as the Little Peace of the Church. Then under Diocletian, the most severe persecution imaginable began, and it ended only with the Great Peace under St. Constantine.

Of the bishops at Nicea, a great many, like St. Nicholas of Myra, had been tortured just a few decades previously. .

You are mistaken. After Marcus Aurelius there was no sustained persecution under any Severan Emperor, only a local persecution in the province of Africa which the spurious history "the Augustan History" magnified into a great persecution later. Similarly, a minor persecution in Pontus under Maximinus Thrax became a great persecution under the pen of Eusebius. The facts simply do not support any such thing.

Next we have the Decian persecution, the only real persecution to date when Christians were forced to recant or to sacrifice to the emperor. This lasted in full force for only 18 months. A rudimentary oath of allegiance was accepted and probably very few Christians were actually martyred.

Next was Valerian's persecution which was solely directed against clergy who would be executed if they did not sacrifice to the emperor or alternately would be sent into exile. This saw the death of high ranking Christians like Cyprian or Pope Sextus. This lasted from 257 to 260, about three years and then fully rescinded by Gallienus.

Lastly the Great Persecution. It was started by Diocletian at the urging of Galerius in the winter of 302. It was ended in the western half of the empire by 306 and in the eastern half by 311, a full two years before the Edict of Milan.

I have skipped the early principate as you agreed with me regarding this period, but as this summary shows, the late Principate did not have any sustained Persecution or attempt at eradication of Christians. There were a few empire wide policies that were implemented for at most a few years before being abandoned. Even the great Persecution, the only real effort to do so, was short term and patchily implemented.

You have fallen prey to centuries of gory retellings of Roman history by martyrology, that have greatly exaggerated the persecutions.

Regarding the Ottomans, I concede your point. I had forgotten about the Janissaries. I had been thinking of the Christian Princes that marched on the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] Byzantine Empire and later Christian Europe because they paid less taxes under the Sultan and their fairly lenient Millet system, but this is of course trumped by that barbaric system.
 
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prodromos

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314 ---Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks the Gentiles: The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of the Goddess Artemis.

324 ---At Dydima, Asia Minor, Constantine sacks the Oracle of God Apollo and tortures its Pagan priests to death. He evicts the Gentiles from Mt. Athos and destroys all local Hellenic Temples.


326 ---Emperor Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the Temple of the God Asclepius in Aigeai of Cilicia and many Temples of the Goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenice, Baalbek, etc..


330 ---Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the Pagan Temples in Greece to decorate Nova Roma (Constantinople), the new capital of his Empire.


335 ---Constantine sacks many Pagan Temples of Asia Minor and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers". Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatros.


341 ---Emperor Constas, son of Constantinus, persecutes "all the soothsayers and the Hellenists". Many Gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed.


346 ---New large-scale persecutions of the Gentiles in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius, who is accused of being a "magician".


353 ---An edict of Constantius decrees the death penalty for all forms of worship involving sacrifice and "idols".


354 ---A new edict of Constantius orders the closing of all Pagan Temples. Some of them are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms. Executions of Pagan priests. The first burning of libraries in various cities of the Empire. The first lime factories are built next to closed Pagan Temples. A large part of Sacred Gentile architecture is turned into lime.


356 ---A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the Pagan Temples and the execution of all "idolaters".


357 ---Constantius outlaws all methods of Divination (Astrology not excluded).


359 ---In Skythopolis, Syria, christians organise the first death camps for the torture and execution of arrested Gentiles from all around the Empire.

That's just a small sample of the first half century.

http://www.rassias.gr/9011.html
Rassias is an Economics graduate. What qualifications does he have as a historian?

It turns out he is a demon worshipper, intent on reviving the pagan religions of ancient Greece. Why should we listen to someone with an obvious axe to grind against Christians?
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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314 ---Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks the Gentiles: The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of the Goddess Artemis.

324 ---At Dydima, Asia Minor, Constantine sacks the Oracle of God Apollo and tortures its Pagan priests to death. He evicts the Gentiles from Mt. Athos and destroys all local Hellenic Temples.


326 ---Emperor Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the Temple of the God Asclepius in Aigeai of Cilicia and many Temples of the Goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenice, Baalbek, etc..


330 ---Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the Pagan Temples in Greece to decorate Nova Roma (Constantinople), the new capital of his Empire.


335 ---Constantine sacks many Pagan Temples of Asia Minor and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers". Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatros.

We have gotten off topic here, but there are so many mistakes in this list, I feel I have to correct some.

Firstly, a Christian council denouncing Pagan worship hardly constitutes persecution. This was obviously not official government policy.
Regarding Constantine and the Pagans: He did not institute any suppression of Paganism. Constantine closed two temples in his reign, notably a temple of Aphrodite in Lebanon (on account of prostitution) and had the practice of Eunuch priests ended (he did execute a few as well in the process), hardly a persecution. He also removed the altar of Victory from the senate.
But Statues of the old gods were still erected in his reign on government orders for his subjects (see Zosimus) and the official sacrifice and government temple subsidies went on as before.
He did loot artwork and so forth for Constantinople, but this was standard practice at the time when founding a city. Besides those were public artworks and were therefore only moved to a new public area, so it can hardly be called looting.
On balance according to both Christian (Eusebius) and Pagan sources, Constantine did not end nor restrict pagan worship nor destroyed temples more than a standard emperor would have.
On Sopater of Apamea: He was one of Constantine's many Pagan Philosopher friends. He died due to court machinations, not on account of his faith. Hardly a pagan martyrdom. (However the official charge was for practicing magic, but all the historians at the time agree this was just a trumped up charge)

341 ---Emperor Constas, son of Constantinus, persecutes "all the soothsayers and the Hellenists". Many Gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed.


346 ---New large-scale persecutions of the Gentiles in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius, who is accused of being a "magician".


353 ---An edict of Constantius decrees the death penalty for all forms of worship involving sacrifice and "idols".


354 ---A new edict of Constantius orders the closing of all Pagan Temples. Some of them are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms. Executions of Pagan priests. The first burning of libraries in various cities of the Empire. The first lime factories are built next to closed Pagan Temples. A large part of Sacred Gentile architecture is turned into lime.


356 ---A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the Pagan Temples and the execution of all "idolaters".


357 ---Constantius outlaws all methods of Divination (Astrology not excluded).


359 ---In Skythopolis, Syria, christians organise the first death camps for the torture and execution of arrested Gentiles from all around the Empire.

That's just a small sample of the first half century.

I believe they are here talking of Emperor Constantius II?
There is no record of large scale persecutions under this emperor of anything other than Orthodox Christianity. No Pagan persecution occurred.
Constantius II remained Pontifex Maximus until his death, like his father. He appointed pagan priests to empty temples in North Africa, never acted against the vestal virgins or any of the Priestly colleges in Rome and no record of any complaint by pagan senators of their treatment can be found from his reign (the first of many such complaints occurs about 20 years after his death).
He did however end government subsidies to the pagan temples and ended official sacrifices and rites. With the collapse of the government funded rites, certain private individuals tried to infiltrate those old temples to do their sacrifices. Constantius then completely closed those temples and forbade sacrifice within them on pain of death (in 353).
As these large government buildings now stood empty, they were converted into law courts etc or fell in disrepair and were used for building materials as was the practice at the time. There was no "profaning" of sacred sites, merely repurposing of already abandoned ones.

Constantius however did pass a law making it illegal to vandalise pagan sites and placed those sights under the authority of their priests. Hardly the work of a persecutor of pagans.

Libanius was never sent into exile on account of his beliefs. All records show him living where and when he chooses.
There were no death camps erected to kill pagans nor any large scale killing of pagan priests. That is completely untrue and not supported by any historical writing I have ever come across.

The outlawing of Divination etc. was standard roman practice. Every now and then the Emperors use to do it, so if that is persecution of pagans, than Augustus, Tiberius, Marcus Aurelius, Hadrian etc. all persecuted pagans.


This Rassias is a very suspect, unreliable and down right incorrect source, I am afraid.

After this came Julian the Apostate's attempts to restore official pagan worship, which of course failed. The tolerant atmosphere however continued under the next few Emperors. Gratian then closed the priestly colleges in Rome and ended the Vestal Virgins, but this was to appropriate their incomes, not really based on religious reasons.

The first persecutions of Pagans in the west started under Valentinian II in 391 when he forbade private sacrifices and prohibited the visiting of temples. This effectively outlawed Paganism, but no suppression or killings were carried out.
The real persecution of Paganism started under Theodosius I with the Theodosian decrees in 389-391, where he outlawed all sacrifices and temple visits in the eastern half of the empire, extending them to the rest in 392 when he became sole emperor. He actively encouraged and participated in the destruction of temples and holy images and those caught offering sacrifices were put to death.
Following Theodosius, the next emperors to the end of the Roman period merely enforced his decrees and gradually Paganism disappeared as the last pagans were forced underground and all eventually converted.
These persecutions were however the death knell of a slowly dying system. Christianity had been growing rapidly and replacing Paganism everywhere since its birth. At Constantine's accession the Christian population was probably about 20%, but by the time of the beginning of the pagan persecutions, most of the population had been largely Christianised (at least in the cities). It is estimated that in 300 for in stance the entire area of Lower Egypt was already Christian and the only thing maintaining the continued existence of the temples there was the government subsidy and their land holdings.

Just as Christians sometimes exaggerate their persecutions at the hand of the Romans, there is a tendency to today exaggerate the suppression of Paganism at the hand of the Christians. It was largely a coup-de-grace to a corpse. Even the much vaunted suppression of the philosophy schools is nonsense as philosophy continued to be taught. They merely closed those that had taken on a religious dimension and largely merely become religious institutions (even Plato's Academy, sadly, had merely become a Neoplatonist temple at this stage). If Paganism had been vibrant and alive, then no amount of persecution would have supressed it, yet it is gone. Christianity flourished even under the (admittedly short) periods of active persecution, which shows us its vibrancy and the deep need it filled in the populace.
Do not try in a false sense of 'were just as bad as they are' to invent some large scale persecution. The record does not support this.
 
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