Why does God allow us to suffer?

[Extraneous]

That's the soul-making hypothesis. But animals don't have the ability to use religion as a source of inner strength. And they do suffer. I just hope they will obtain relief and happiness when their lives are over.

Romans 8 comes to mind. All creation has been groaning.

 

[Locutus]

Why would he be joking? Is there anything more universal to our collective human experience than suffering?

because he couched suffering in positive terms, and suggested it was a 'blessing'. I'll let those 4 year old skeletons in Africa know he's thinking of them.

 

[Locutus]

Most people are alive today. Pain comes with that.
Nerves keep your organs functioning.
No nerve signals means death.

Tidy obfuscation.

 

[Locutus]

I reserve the right to be fallible. I did say it was my opinion. I take scripture at its word, not people. I listened to faith healing preachers for many years, only to be frustrated in the end. I searched scripture to find answers. I cried, prayed and searched. In the end i found my answers in scripture. Its my belief that God opened my eyes to see the truth. There are different ways of looking at things and the bible is written in a way that only spiritual eyes can understand the Lords teaching correctly. The scriptures teach this as well. I dont know everything, but God showed me what i needed to know.

So it's just your opinion that a god named Yahweh created the universe?

Meantime, please define 'spiritual eyes'.

 

[Extraneous]

because he couched suffering in positive terms, and suggested it was a 'blessing'. I'll let those 4 year old skeletons in Africa know he's thinking of them.

It has been a blessing for me, because i chose to allow to be. I believe im a better person because of it. Perhaps i should instead believe that im cursed and then i can sink back into the pit of depression that i was in? Would that be better for you? Look at the rich man who never suffers anything. He is rich in wealth but poor in heart. Just because you dont understand it, doesn't mean its not true. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

 

[Extraneous]

So it's just your opinion that a god named Yahweh created the universe?

Meantime, please define 'spiritual eyes'.

Its my belief, yes.

Look at my last post, maybe you can see a glimpse of what i mean by spiritual eyes.

 

[Locutus]

It has been a blessing for me, because i chose to allow to be. I believe im a better person because of it. Perhaps i should instead believe that im cursed and then i can sink back into the pit of depression that i was in? Would that be better for you? Look at the rich man who never suffers anything. He is rich in wealth but poor in heart. Just because you dont understand it, doesn't mean its not true. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

suffering (in the tame, first world sense that you know it) is only going to add value to your life if you survive it and survive it well. your puerile understanding of suffering is deeply unpleasant.

if this lightweight grasp of the human condition is compelled by your need to make room for a god who allows (indeed, creates) suffering to the degree that it does, then I'm sorry for you. it leaves no room for anything but a tiny, flinty heart.

 

[Locutus]

Look at my last post, maybe you can see a glimpse of what i mean by spiritual eyes.

If I'd gleaned any meaning from your 'glimpse', I'd have had no need to ask.

Could you please explain and define what spiritual eyes are?

 

[Extraneous]

If I'd gleaned any meaning from your 'glimpse', I'd have had no need to ask.

Could you please explain and define what spiritual eyes are?

I dont see how it would help.

 

[Extraneous]

Spiritual eyes refer to seeing spiritual meaning in things. It refers to seeing value in spiritual things. Its what the Lord promises to give us. In effect he heals our spiritual blindness. Its a deep subject. If you wish to know more then ask the Lord. Only he can teach us. Im no teacher.

 

[Sea Anemone]

because he couched suffering in positive terms, and suggested it was a 'blessing'. I'll let those 4 year old skeletons in Africa know he's thinking of them.

I think he was talking about his personal, subjective experience of suffering and how that leads someone to be more compassionate and empathic, which is not too outlandish, right?

As for all the other suffering (like the children dying of hunger and thirst in Africa), that is a very deep and profound question and I'm afraid I can't really give you a simple answer (if you happen to know why, please do share). To me, suffering is where God reveals himself; not as the direct cause of it, but as the struggle against. When people see injustice against their fellow human beings and stand up to fight against it, that to me is how God manifests himself in this world.

 

[Extraneous]

suffering (in the tame, first world sense that you know it) is only going to add value to your life if you survive it and survive it well. your puerile understanding of suffering is deeply unpleasant.

if this lightweight grasp of the human condition is compelled by your need to make room for a god who allows (indeed, creates) suffering to the degree that it does, then I'm sorry for you. it leaves no room for anything but a tiny, flinty heart.

God maybe creates suffering for some people because they need it. Its discipline. However, people create suffering as well, they cause suffering for others. Maybe my suffering has helped me to not create suffering for others. Maybe i prayed for this, not to suffer but to change,

God doesnt see the world as we see it. He sees something better ahead for people. He has promised us something better. This world is only temporary. Why blame God that people die? We will all die, and thats a fact. WHy he chooses to let some people die early is his business, and who am i, just a man, to question him? Perhaps i dont see what he sees. If you want to waste your happiness blaming God then i cant stop you, but if you want to find meaning for life then i would suggest that you stop blaming God and seek him instead.

 

[SkyWriting]

Tidy obfuscation.

Get real.

The physical transmission of pleasure and pain
are the same impulses. So what is your problem?

 

[SkyWriting]

As for all the other suffering (like the children dying of hunger and thirst in Africa), that is a very deep and profound question and I'm afraid I can't really give you a simple answer (if you happen to know why, please do share). To me, suffering is where God reveals himself; not as the direct cause of it, but as the struggle against. When people see injustice against their fellow human beings and stand up to fight against it, that to me is how God manifests himself in this world.

Pain is a requirement of our human condition and so we are not sitting
on "Sleep Number" puffy clouds with no need to move a finger.

Under the proposed scenario we would be born in happiness onto our
soft pillows and stay for eternity with no hunger or pain, not moving a muscle.

No Pain? No reality.

 

[Locutus]

Spiritual eyes refer to seeing spiritual meaning in things. It refers to seeing value in spiritual things. Its what the Lord promises to give us. In effect he heals our spiritual blindness. Its a deep subject. If you wish to know more then ask the Lord. Only he can teach us. Im no teacher.

I've asked a number of gods and prophets (including yours) to indicate themselves thusly, but have never received an answer. I genuinely wanted one, too. Therefore I'm compelled to seek answers on my theological questions from the humans who represent the gods, or would speak for them.

Meantime, what do you mean by 'seeing spiritual meaning in things', specifically? Can you break it down into a logical process, please? Explain how it's tangibly and identifiably different to 'imagination and wishful thinking'?

 

[Locutus]

Get real.

The physical transmission of pleasure and pain
are the same impulses. So what is your problem?

my problem is that so many theists appear to want to shut this dialogue down. I may be wrong, but the lightweight references to suffering and the 'don't worry about it, god's in charge' enjoinders have that flavour.

 

[Extraneous]

I've asked a number of gods and prophets (including yours) to indicate themselves thusly, but have never received an answer. I genuinely wanted one, too. Therefore I'm compelled to seek answers on my theological questions from the humans who represent the gods, or would speak for them.

Meantime, what do you mean by 'seeing spiritual meaning in things', specifically? Can you break it down into a logical process, please? Explain how it's tangibly and identifiably different to 'imagination and wishful thinking'?

We have all experienced that silence you mention, i suppose. Perhaps you are trying to hear with natural ears instead of spiritual ones. The Lord said that if anyone loves him they will keep his words, and then the spirit will teach them. We must keep the lords words in our heart by meditating on them and trying our best to follow them, even if it hurts to hear. We will not be perfect but we try. Many people dont want to hear what He has to say because it hurts them. However thats when we must listen. That's all i can say.

 

[Locutus]

Pain is a requirement of our human condition and so we are not sitting
on "Sleep Number" puffy clouds with no need to move a finger.

Under the proposed scenario we would be born in happiness onto our
soft pillows and stay for eternity with no hunger or pain, not moving a muscle.

No Pain? No reality.

Can I take this opportunity to remind our theist friends that a human lifetime is mathematically zero compared to the eternity of no suffering we're promised in heaven. If we can exist FOREVER without suffering, why must we exist for even a zillionth of a picosecond with they type of suffering referenced here? Childhood cancers, Ebola, war, etc. There is no gain from these things, no matter how the much the theist attempts to reduce 'suffering' to surviving prostate cancer in late adulthood, or how much they try to convince themselves that even terrible these things have a 'bright side'.

 

[Extraneous]

Can I take this opportunity to remind our theist friends that a human lifetime is mathematically zero compared to the eternity of no suffering we're promised in heaven. If we can exist FOREVER without suffering, why must we exist for even a zillionth of a picosecond with they type of suffering referenced here? Childhood cancers, Ebola, war, etc. There is no gain from these things, no matter how the much the theist attempts to reduce 'suffering' to surviving prostate cancer in late adulthood, or how much they try to convince themselves that even terrible these things have a 'bright side'.

You dont really seem interested in God, and you seem more interested in accusing him of being mean. How do you know God is responsible for those things? Perhaps man himself is responsible. Would you rather have not been created at all? Is it too much to ask that we should be grateful to exist? God has promised something better.

 

[Locutus]

We have all experienced that silence you mention, i suppose. Perhaps you are trying to hear with natural ears instead of spiritual ones. The Lord said that if anyone loves him they will keep his words, and then the spirit will teach them. We must keep the lords words in our heart by meditating on them and trying our best to follow them, even if it hurts to hear. We will not be perfect but we try. Many people dont want to hear what He has to say because it hurts them. However thats when we must listen. That's all i can say.

Now you'll need to define 'spiritual ears'. You've given me nothing which would explain the difference between these 'spiritual faculties' and the imagination and/or wishful thinking. I'm quite serious in asking this. Many claim there is a difference, but no one seems willing to tell us what that difference is. If you genuinely don't know, admitting it isn't a bad thing.