Evolution Promotes Brutality

[TLK Valentine]

As far as anarchy, it is also easy to say "if I came from nothing then all rules are just made by someone else. What gives them the right to say what is right and wrong if we are all here by chance anyway. So I will make my rules and there is no one who can tell me I'm wrong. I can do what I want, when I want, take what I want.. what ever, Who do I have to answer to? And when I die there is no penalty to pay.

So, evolution may not promote it but can be used to justify it.

Are you suggesting that the only reason you don't do what you want, when you want, take what you want... whatever?... is because you have someone to answer to and there'd be a penalty to pay?

 

[HitchSlap]

Are you suggesting that the only reason you don't do what you want, when you want, take what you want... whatever?... is because you have someone to answer to and there'd be a penalty to pay?

The inimitable Carlin says it best.

 

[JacksBratt]

Are you suggesting that the only reason you don't do what you want, when you want, take what you want... whatever?... is because you have someone to answer to and there'd be a penalty to pay?

I don't think it would be possible for me, in any way shape or form to function outside the framework of my morals and ethics that I have derived from my walk with Christ. I cannot comprehend not having that moral foundation.

However, I can comprehend someone who has never known any datum for the basis of what we call right and wrong,who has been raised without any basis for our ethical norms, having the attitude that "if some human or group of humans made these rules, who are they that I have to follow their ideas?

I believe that the morals and ethics of civilized humans is imprinted on their heart from conception. The same way a monarch butterfly returns to the field that his parents were born in, even though it has never been there before or ever knew its parents. Or the way a Baltimore Oriole knows how to weave a beautiful nest without ever being taught.

Humans, instinctively, or divinely, know that it is wrong to take something that is not theirs or inflict pain on someone.
This is nothing less than the finger print of God on our hearts. If there was not a God, this would not be there.

If you remove this inborn knowledge, you end up with a psychopath. A person who cannot comprehend emotion or feelings toward other people or animals. They are the people nightmares are made of. Hearts that for some reason has Satan himself at the wheel.

If you were able to prove to me that there is no God, that there is no creator, then where did right and wrong come from? If right and wrong were conceived by some other evolved being, how do we know that it is correct?

 

[TLK Valentine]

I don't think it would be possible for me, in any way shape or form to function outside the framework of my morals and ethics that I have derived from my walk with Christ. I cannot comprehend not having that moral foundation.

And wouldn't you agree that there's a lot more to that moral foundation than "behave because you're being watched, and there will be hell to pay"?

And is it your moral foundation or something else that prevents you from imagining yourself any way but what you are?

However, I can comprehend someone who has never known any datum for the basis of what we call right and wrong,who has been raised without any basis for our ethical norms, having the attitude that "if some human or group of humans made these rules, who are they that I have to follow their ideas?

Surely you don't think that your religion is the only possible moral foundation?

I believe that the morals and ethics of civilized humans is imprinted on their heart from conception. The same way a monarch butterfly returns to the field that his parents were born in, even though it has never been there before or ever knew its parents. Or the way a Baltimore Oriole knows how to weave a beautiful nest without ever being taught.

Does that mean that those morals are immutable? And if they are inborn, what's the point of a walk with Christ?

Humans, instinctively, or divinely, know that it is wrong to take something that is not theirs or inflict pain on someone.

And yet, we give medals and accolades to people who do just that. Surely our environment, our cultural upbringing, plays a role as well...

This is nothing less than the finger print of God on our hearts. If there was not a God, this would not be there.

God has condoned, commanded, and on occasion, committed many such acts, and worse, than the ones you claim we know to be wrong. But since you won't acknowledge that wrong us wrong even when God does it (or orders it done), that "fingerprint" ends up looking pretty smudged.

If you remove this inborn knowledge, you end up with a psychopath. A person who cannot comprehend emotion or feelings toward other people or animals. They are the people nightmares are made of.

Indeed... a person without empathy us a sociopath.

Hearts that for some reason has Satan himself at the wheel.

And there goes personal accountability right out the window with a simple "the Devil made him do it."

If you were able to prove to me that there is no God, that there is no creator, then where did right and wrong come from? If right and wrong were conceived by some other evolved being, how do we know that it is correct?

How do we know it is correct if God did make them?

The raving lunatic, the terrorist, the genocidal despot, the abortion clinic bomber... what makes their claims of "God's fingerprint" any less valid than yours?

 

[JacksBratt]

And wouldn't you agree that there's a lot more to that moral foundation than "behave because you're being watched, and there will be hell to pay"?

There will be hell to pay even if you are the nicest, kindest, most generous and most heroic human that ever lived.
Being moral or ethical and behaving like you are being watched will never get you to heaven.

And is it your moral foundation or something else that prevents you from imagining yourself any way but what you are?

I am not perfect and never will be. I hurt people, I lie, I am rude and I am not proud of it.... every human being does this. However, I am minute by minute striving to be more like Christ. He is my moral compass. He is my mentor and savior. I hurt when others hurt but that doesn't mean I will never do it again, and be sorry instantly after I do it. Or after my immature, human emotions are under control again.

Surely you don't think that your religion is the only possible moral foundation?

Religion saved no one. The moral foundation was put their by our creator. Only a personal relationship with Christ and accepting that you are a sinner and asking for His saving grace will get you to paradise.
Religion is all do do do do do..... with salvation it's already done. You just have to accept it.

Does that mean that those morals are immutable? And if they are inborn, what's the point of a walk with Christ?

No it's not immutable. We all know what is right or wrong. Some could care less anyway. When you admit that you are a sinner and ask for the grace of Christ, you are now a child of God and will have eternal life. However, a personal walk with Chirst will intensify your awareness of your sinful nature and the moral ways that were the will of God.
Your walk will then make life better of others and hopefully give them a hunger for what you have.

One person once said "continue to teach people about God..... sometimes use words". My life and actions should be a beacon and a draw for those searching for Christ, not a stumbling block on their path for the search for salvation.

And yet, we give medals and accolades to people who do just that. Surely our environment, our cultural upbringing, plays a role as well...

They are human rewards. They do serve a purpose as positive reinforcement for proper behavior for sue. Isn't that our teachers and parent's trying to train us in ways they want us to follow? To conform to what they know is right?

God has condoned, commanded, and on occasion, committed many such acts, and worse, than the ones you claim we know to be wrong. But since you won't acknowledge that wrong us wrong even when God does it (or orders it done), that "fingerprint" ends up looking pretty smudged.

The reason God did all those things was justifiable by numerous conditions. Many of which you are not aware of because you are not aware of the events of the pre and post flood days and even the upcoming days and years.

Indeed... a person without empathy us a sociopath.

Thanks, that is the correct term.

And there goes personal accountability right out the window with a simple "the Devil made him do it."

The devil temps only, the sins we commit are our choice. When we follow the suggestions of the devil, he is at the wheel.

How do we know it is correct if God did make them?

Because He created the universe, He created the physical laws, He created the laws of right and wrong, He is the datum right and wrong are compared to.

The raving lunatic, the terrorist, the genocidal despot, the abortion clinic bomber... what makes their claims of "God's fingerprint" any less valid than yours?

Their motivation. However, man has laws that are necessary to find people inside or outside the acceptable actions of this world. Man tries them and punishes them with man's punishments.

God tells us to follow the laws of our world up and to the point where they contradict His laws. God will be the final judge and He will judge the heart.

 

[TLK Valentine]

There will be hell to pay even if you are the nicest, kindest, most generous and most heroic human that ever lived.
Being moral or ethical and behaving like you are being watched will never get you to heaven.

Sounds like moral/ethical behavior is irrelevant to Christianity.

I am not perfect and never will be. I hurt people, I lie, I am rude and I am not proud of it.... every human being does this. However, I am minute by minute striving to be more like Christ. He is my moral compass. He is my mentor and savior. I hurt when others hurt but that doesn't mean I will never do it again, and be sorry instantly after I do it. Or after my immature, human emotions are under control again.

Why, when there's no consequence for failure?

Religion saved no one. The moral foundation was put their by our creator. Only a personal relationship with Christ and accepting that you are a sinner and asking for His saving grace will get you to paradise.
Religion is all do do do do do..... with salvation it's already done. You just have to accept it.

And people think that moral and ethical behavior is somehow connected to this -- thank you for correcting me.

No it's not immutable. We all know what is right or wrong. Some could care less anyway. When you admit that you are a sinner and ask for the grace of Christ, you are now a child of God and will have eternal life. However, a personal walk with Chirst will intensify your awareness of your sinful nature and the moral ways that were the will of God.
Your walk will then make life better of others and hopefully give them a hunger for what you have.

But whether or not you actually follow those moral ways is irrelevant. Salvation is already done.

One person once said "continue to teach people about God..... sometimes use words".

St. Francis of Assisi. Sound advice, albeit utterly optional.

My life and actions should be a beacon and a draw for those searching for Christ, not a stumbling block on their path for the search for salvation.

Not that it matters one way or another.

They are human rewards. They do serve a purpose as positive reinforcement for proper behavior for sue. Isn't that our teachers and parent's trying to train us in ways they want us to follow? To conform to what they know is right?

Do not the priests and the Pharisees do likewise?

The reason God did all those things was justifiable by numerous conditions. Many of which you are not aware of because you are not aware of the events of the pre and post flood days and even the upcoming days and years.

It's always justifiable to the people who wanted it done. Every atrocity seems like a good idea at the time to the one committing it.

The devil temps only, the sins we commit are our choice. When we follow the suggestions of the devil, he is at the wheel.

No -- we are always at the wheel. Either you believe in personal responsibility or you do not... do not blame anyone else for your own choices.

Because He created the universe, He created the physical laws, He created the laws of right and wrong, He is the datum right and wrong are compared to.

It doesn't follow... One who creates the laws is under no obligation to follow them.

Their motivation. However, man has laws that are necessary to find people inside or outside the acceptable actions of this world. Man tries them and punishes them with man's punishments.

But we're not talking about man's laws or punishments... we're talking about right and wrong which God imprinted on them...

Who are you to say He didn't?

God tells us to follow the laws of our world up and to the point where they contradict His laws. God will be the final judge and He will judge the heart.

So the terrorist, the despot, and the bomber might very well, in the eyes of God, be judged kinder than you or I, in spite of their acts... or perhaps because of their acts.

Not a comforting thought.

 

[46AND2]

And wouldn't you agree that there's a lot more to that moral foundation than "behave because you're being watched, and there will be hell to pay"?

And is it your moral foundation or something else that prevents you from imagining yourself any way but what you are?



Surely you don't think that your religion is the only possible moral foundation?



Does that mean that those morals are immutable? And if they are inborn, what's the point of a walk with Christ?



And yet, we give medals and accolades to people who do just that. Surely our environment, our cultural upbringing, plays a role as well...



God has condoned, commanded, and on occasion, committed many such acts, and worse, than the ones you claim we know to be wrong. But since you won't acknowledge that wrong us wrong even when God does it (or orders it done), that "fingerprint" ends up looking pretty smudged.



Indeed... a person without empathy us a sociopath.



And there goes personal accountability right out the window with a simple "the Devil made him do it."



How do we know it is correct if God did make them?

The raving lunatic, the terrorist, the genocidal despot, the abortion clinic bomber... what makes their claims of "God's fingerprint" any less valid than yours?

To be pedantic, a person who lacks empathy is a psychopath. Sociopaths can feel empathy.

 

[Hoghead1]

They do feel empathy. All creatures have empathy. However, sociopaths very much suppress it.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Evolutionists:

1. The Bible kicked out of school.
2. The Ten Commandments removed from public property.
3. Claim we aren't a Christian nation.
4. Equal airtime for cults and idols.

And you tell me that's not anarchy?

I don't think you know what anarchy actually means.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I understand the concept. Where did it come from, in your opinion?

Most ancient civilisations came up with it independently from one another.
Good ideas easily stick.

The other half of the Golden rule.... well, the Golden rule is "love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself"
The last part could be translated or paraphrased as "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

It's from Biblical scripture. It is not a "non-theistic" moral principle. It's a quote of what Jesus said when he was trying to be tricked by the religious leaders and they asked what the most important commandment was.

You are not aware of the fact that this idea predates christianity?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule
The Golden Rule or ethic of reciprocity is a moral maxim or principle of altruism found in nearly every human culture and religion, suggesting it is related to a fundamental human nature

The concept occurs in some form in nearly every religion[4][5] and ethical tradition.[6

 

[Nithavela]

There are many true Christians who have accepted that life on Earth evolved over millions of years.

In particular, lifeforms have been around for over 200 million years which have continuously lived by biting and devouring other lifeforms.

Has God allowed brutality to be the means for many lifeforms to exist for such a long period of time?

I don't think so. How about you?

I don't know. Let's ask Mr. Gazelle:

Oh dear.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The Patterns of Evidence is not a fictional movie or a movie based on a true story. It is a documentary of a man who searches for evidence of the exodus.

Would you care for a documentary about a team doing the same research and reaching the opposite conclusion?

His most productive source and the gentleman how helps him unlock the problem is .... an atheist.

dun dun duuuuuuun!!

I found the conclusion very telling. The curators and Egyptian historians etc, hear the new found information, data and results of the search, they agree with it but state... they won't change anything that has been presented as truth for so many years, no matter that it is in fact incorrect and new information shows that it is false.

Mark 8:18King James Version (KJV)
18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?

yea yea....
And Richard Dawkins thinks we were intelligently designed by aliens, since he said so in the movie 'Expelled' by the extremely brutally honest Ben Stein.

The point here being: movies are edited. Scenes and text can be brought to life in such a way that it gives the viewer a very, very different image then what was actually going on.

 

[AV1611VET]

The inimitable Carlin says it best.

George Carlin died and went to aitch.

 

[Heissonear]

George Carlin died and went to aitch.

It has come a day when George Carlin is cited as one who reflects (in interesting ways) how things are in this life.

Meanwhile, Revelations talks about a number of new "pits" being opened through time. Things people can fall in to, if not careful. I've read somewhere about the blind can lead people to them.

I have learned to not follow man, who's breath is in his nostrils.

Jesus is the one to follow. So many people act like He is no where around, when it is the opposite, He know the number of steps you take each day, and all your motives.

 

[Heissonear]

Moved

 

[AV1611VET]

I have learned to not follow man, who's breath is in his nostrils.

Amen, brother!

 

[JacksBratt]

Sounds like moral/ethical behavior is irrelevant to Christianity.

It's not irrelevant. It's just not going to earn you salvation. You are expected, as a child of God, to follow His example and not only be moral and ethical, but be a mentor, leader, example for others.

Why, when there's no consequence for failure?

There is still consequences. I may be saved but I will still be judged by God. However, we are under the mercy of God's love. Grace is getting something you don't deserve.....like eternal life even though I'm not worthy.
Mercy, on the other hand, is not getting something you do deserve.

And people think that moral and ethical behavior is somehow connected to this -- thank you for correcting me.

Well it is connected, it's just not what saves you. You cannot "earn" your way to heaven. You are, however, expected to strive to be more like Christ when you are saved. This is due to the second part of the sinners prayer. First is to admit you are a sinner and are damned, no matter what, second is to ask for salvation from Christ, third is to follow His ways and make disciples and so on. We will be judged on our "walk" with God and our behavior. Ours is just a different judgement than non believers.

But whether or not you actually follow those moral ways is irrelevant. Salvation is already done.

Correct... However, I cannot fathom someone, sincerely, accepting Christs salvation with a premeditated desire to then keep on behaving badly. I would go as far as to say they were never saved. I believe many "backslide" do to pressures of life and a weak character. However, this is not premeditated and usually the people are well aware that they are not on track.

People who are saved could be ranked on an infinite scale of following Christs example.

St. Francis of Assisi. Sound advice, albeit utterly optional.

Thanks for the information about St. Francis. I didn't know who it was. And, yes, optional...

Not that it matters one way or another.

Well, we believe it does. We will be held accountable for our missed opportunities and our successes. Look at the parable of the people who were given the different amounts of money and later were held accountable for how they invested it.......

Do not the priests and the Pharisees do likewise?

IDK

It's always justifiable to the people who wanted it done. Every atrocity seems like a good idea at the time to the one committing it.

Ok, short "readers digest" version. Satan contaminated the human genome with the Nepilim in an attempt to make God's plan of salvation through Christ impossible. Thus the flood and Noah's family was the only humans "pure in their generations" who could continue pure human DNA. Later, due to Noah's daughters in law not being pure DNA lines, some of their offspring were Nephilim lines. God wanted these completely obliterated for the sake of mankind.....thus the times of genocide. However, when this was not carried out, further trouble ensued down the line for God's chosen people and even the gentiles.

No -- we are always at the wheel. Either you believe in personal responsibility or you do not... do not blame anyone else for your own choices.

True, we are always at the wheel. We, in the end make the choice. However, who has not been tempted?

It doesn't follow... One who creates the laws is under no obligation to follow them.

He had to follow them when He was in the world (Christ followed the laws and broke none. He was sinless) God, however is outside the world. He created it but is not "in" it. He isn't bound by the physical laws of this world. It is impossible for Him to sin and break any of those laws of right and wrong. He is the epitome of righteousness.

But we're not talking about man's laws or punishments... we're talking about right and wrong which God imprinted on them...

Who are you to say He didn't?

I don't know if I am getting your point. Man, for the most part, has a pretty good idea of the basics of right and wrong. However, I am seeing a drift away from this foundation of right and wrong. Many legal issues are becoming more man's view that dismisses the biblical standard and even commandments.

So the terrorist, the despot, and the bomber might very well, in the eyes of God, be judged kinder than you or I, in spite of their acts... or perhaps because of their acts.
Not a comforting thought.

I doubt that very much. Most of these types of people are not following the WWJD (what would Jesus do) mantra. Didn't Christ say "turn the other cheek" and "vengeance is mine"?. People taking these issues into their own hands as if they are carrying out God's will by Killing etc will not bode well when they face their maker.

Man can prosecute and punish these people under man's earthly laws and then they will also face God's judgement by fire in the eternal world. The only way they could be considered to be treated kinder is if they were, in fact saved whilst you are not. They will still be judged and there are consequences.

 

[HitchSlap]

George Carlin died and went to aitch.

Is your spellcheck working?

 

[AV1611VET]

Is your spellcheck working?

Why? did I spell "George" wrong?

 

[HitchSlap]

Why? did I spell "George" wrong?

"But he loves you... And he always needs money."

Oh, I'm guessing you learned a new word and it makes you feel hip using it?