Does Archaeology prove the Histories found in the Bible?

[createdtoworship]

It has been my experience that every time a shovel breaks ground over in Israel, it is lifted up with yet another proof in support of the Bible. This is a place to divulge those discoveries, and how they do what other religions wish to accomplish. For example, the Book of Mormon has no discovery in support of many of the ideas in the BOM, Kumorah, and other places are simply unknown to Historians. The Bible seems to be a bright and shining star however in Archaeology. I wanted to open a thread that discussed Archaeology and the Bible.

I will put other finds after this, but this one is my favorite:

Archaeological Note: Site of the Tower of Babel

“The traditional Tower of Bable isn't Borsippa, 10 Miles southwest from the center of Babylon. Sir Henry Rawlinson found in a foundation corner in Borsippa a cylinder with this inscription: “The tower of Borshppa, which a former king erected, and completed to a height of 42 cubits, whose summit he did not finish, fell to ruins in ancient times. There was no proper care of its gutters for the water; rain and storms had washed away its brick, and the tiles of its roof were broken. The great god Marduk urged me to restore it. I did not alter its site, or change its foundation walls. At a favorable time I renewed its brick work and its roofing tiles, and I wrote my name on the cornices of the edifice. I built it anew as it had been ages before; I erected its pinnacle as it was in remote days.” This seems like a tradition of the unfinished tower of Babel (Figure 22).”- above quote from: Haley’s Bible Handbook previous versions (Blue hardback, not new White one)

but "facts are stubborn things" as the saying goes.

so people can dismiss religion on a host of preconceptions and opinions, but it is harder to dismiss factual finds found in the next few posts, relating to the Bible.

 

[createdtoworship]

for my second favorite discovery, and 3rd:

"Genesis presents Adam and Eve as historical, literal people who began the human race. Indeed, an early archaeological discovery supports a literal Adam and Eve. In 1932 E.A.Speiser of the University Museum of Pennsylvania discovered a seal near the bottom of the Tepe Gawra Mound, 12 miles from Nineveh in Mesopotamia, that he dated about 3500 BC. It shows a naked man and woman both bent over as if they were downcast. Behind them is a serpent. The seal is about one inch in diameter, engraved on stone, and is now in the University Museum in Philadelphia. Professor Speiser noted that the image is strongly suggestive of the Adam and Eve story."

above quote from:

HANDBOOK OF ARCHAEOLOGY AND THE BIBLE: Discoveries That Confirm the Reliability of the Scriptures- Joseph Holden and Norman Geisler, Harvest House Pub Eugene Or, 2013

and yet another adam and eve discovery:

The lower find, is entitled "the temptation seal" courtesy of the British Museum. It was found in a discovery involving numerous Babylonian tablets. On right is a man, on left is a woman plucking fruit together. A serpent is behind the woman on left.

 

[createdtoworship]

Here is another find:

The entire Aramaic inscription reads, "Jacob (James), son of Joseph, brother of Jesus" (Ya'akov bar Yosef akhui di Yeshua).

here is a quote:

"
Analysis of the Inscription
The Inscription: In Aramaic, the inscription reads "Yaakov bar Yoseph akhui d'Yeshua." Aramaic was the language of first century Jerusalem. "Yaakov" means "James" and "bar" means "son." "Yoseph" is obviously "Joseph" and "akhui" is a rather unusual but legitimate spelling for "brother." Of course "Yeshua" is "Jesus." And the "d" in front of Yeshua is an Aramaic prepositional form indicating "belonging to.""

above quote from:
http://ingermanson.com/mad_science/james_ossuary

you read from right to left

there is patina in the grooves, (microscopic bacteria like micro organisms) where the name of Christ is, proving it not an after thought and proving the entire inscription as ancient.

in google scholar there is numerous citations if you select 2007- 2016 and the latest is a book that shows the breakdown of percentages of bacteria in the grooves.

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=xzg0AgAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA334&dq=james+ossuary&ots=94UrBdk-1t&sig=R2lqWa8epxqCZUZn6ZH2eFn_gnk#v=onepage&q=james ossuary&f=false

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=james+ossuary&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_ylo=2007&as_yhi=2016

above google scholar citation from a section with a contributor named : amnon rosenfeld who is a micro paleontologist working in Jerusalem as well as two other authors.

 

[cloudyday2]

@gradyll , here is the Wikipedia article on the James ossuary and the person who owned it, Oded Golan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ossuary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oded_Golan

Here is a quote from the Wikipedia on Oded Golan... very suspicious.

According to the BBC, when the police took Oded Golan into custody and searched his apartment they discovered a workshop with a range of tools, materials, and half finished 'antiquities'. This was evidence for an operation of a scale far greater than they had suspected. Investigators have established that collectors around the world have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for artefacts that came through Oded Golan's associates. Dozens of these items were examined. Police then suspect that artefacts made by the same team of forgers have found their way into leading museums around the world.[3]

 

[cloudyday2]

...
and yet another adam and eve discovery:

The lower find, is entitled "the temptation seal" courtesy of the British Museum. It was found in a discovery involving numerous Babylonian tablets. On right is a man, on left is a woman plucking fruit together. A serpent is behind the woman on left.

In case you didn't already know this, the figure on the right has bull's horns, and that makes most people believe it is a god instead of a human. Sometimes king's are depicted with horns, but that symbolism means they are claiming to be demigods. Probably you already knew this, but I thought it should be mentioned.

 

[createdtoworship]

In case you didn't already know this, the figure on the right has bull's horns, and that makes most people believe it is a god instead of a human. Sometimes king's are depicted with horns, but that symbolism means they are claiming to be demigods. Probably you already knew this, but I thought it should be mentioned.

maybe, not sure. Not a lot on that one.

but you have three facts that are interesting.

1. a male and female
2. plucking from a tree
3. with a serpent

the wrapping of the image, is not of concern to me but the facts.

the clothing for example on the persons is not as important as the above three observations found in unison.

but thank you for your input, if you have more details, please share.

 

[createdtoworship]

@gradyll , here is the Wikipedia article on the James ossuary and the person who owned it, Oded Golan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ossuary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oded_Golan

Here is a quote from the Wikipedia on Oded Golan... very suspicious.

wikipedia is open source, which is cool if your a programmer or something, not so cool of you are discussing science or the economy, or anything involving facts.

(sorry I guess I am a little embittered by wikipedia's sloppyness).

I like other free encyclopedias, like conservopedia, for example.

but that is neither here nor there.

anyway, latest research indicates the lawsuit involving the find, to be dismissed and that most archaeologists believe it not to be a forgery.

I didn't read the wikipedia link, but I presume it is not updated.

Shocker.

but the gist is that because of naturally occurring patina, that the later phrase about Jesus could not have been forged.

below quote and source:

"2.Though the bone box itself and the first half of the inscription are not contested, arguments that the second half of the inscription ("brother of Jesus") was recently engraved (forged) and was not completed by the same hand have been posited due to the absence of natural occurring patina. (Patina is a thin layer of biogenic material expected to be present on most, if not all, ancient artifacts to some degree. It is caused by the continuous secretions and activities of microorganisms such as bacteria, fungi, algae, and yeast on the stone and inside some of its grooves. If the same consistency of patina is equally distributed on the ossuary and found within the engraved grooves, it would suggest the authenticity of the inscription. The absence of patina within the disputed portion of the inscription would suggest a forgery or modern engraving of letters.)"

above quote from:
HANDBOOK OF ARCHAEOLOGY AND THE BIBLE: Discoveries That Confirm the Reliability of the Scriptures- Joseph Holden and Norman Geisler, Harvest House Pub Eugene Or, 2013

 

[cloudyday2]

wikipedia is open source, which is cool if your a programmer or something, not so cool of you are discussing science or the economy, or anything involving facts.

(sorry I guess I am a little embittered by wikipedia's sloppyness).

I like other free encyclopedias, like conservopedia, for example.

but that is neither here nor there.

anyway, latest research indicates the lawsuit involving the find, to be dismissed and that most archaeologists believe it not to be a forgery.

I didn't read the wikipedia link, but I presume it is not updated. Shocker.

No, the Wikipedia article has been updated, and it mentions that Obed Galon was not convicted. However, the reason Obed Galon was not convicted is that the police invesigators did not properly handle the evidence found in Obed Galon's home laboratory. This is similar to the sloppy handling of evidence in the O.J. Simpson murder trial that lead to a verdict of innocent. Furthermore, the article says the conclusion of forgery was criticized, because the Israeli experts have not made their reasoning public. The outside experts say that the James ossuary may or may not be a forgery, but they want access to all the information before giving an opinion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ossuary

For myself, I can't believe the James ossuary is genuine when it was owned by somebody who might be a crook (even if he wasn't convicted).

Don't disrespect Wikipedia! I've found it is almost always accurate and balanced. The collaborative composition of articles means that people can correct mistakes and criticize sloppiness. I love Wikipedia. It is one of my charities.

 

[cloudyday2]

maybe, not sure. Not a lot on that one.

but you have three facts that are interesting.

1. a male and female
2. plucking from a tree
3. with a serpent

the wrapping of the image, is not of concern to me but the facts.

the clothing for example on the persons is not as important as the above three observations found in unison.

but thank you for your input, if you have more details, please share.

The specialists now believe that the temptation seal depicts a banquet (see Wikipedia )

Here are some random ideas:

As a non-specialist, the only distinction I can see between the left and right figure is the bull's horns. Neither figure appears to have a beard, and that seems strange. No beard implies to me that these are either women, teenage boys, or eunuchs. I vote for teenage boys, because that goes with the tree of life and the immortal snake.

The snake was a universal symbol of immortality, because people believed that the shedding of skin gave eternal life to snakes. The tree of life was another universal symbol. In some myths the tree of life was guarded by an immortal snake.

 

[cloudyday2]

@gradyll , one last question: when you say these archaeological finds support the Bible, what do you mean exactly? Most atheists believe that Judaism evolved from earlier Near Eastern religions and that the stories in the Old Testament were myths that sometimes originated in other cultures. The flood myth is a popular example. Finding evidence of flood stories that are older than the Bible does not support the Bible as history. Christians have many different ideas about the historicity of the various Bible stories, so I don't know what you believe. For example, I don't know if you believe that there was a historical event that inspired the Garden of Eden story, or if you believe the Garden of Eden story borrowed elements from earlier stories of the Near Eastern cultures.

 

[cloudyday2]

By the way, I enjoy your thread. It's fascinating to try to understand how the Bible and Judaism originated.

 

[createdtoworship]

No, the Wikipedia article has been updated, and it mentions that Obed Galon was not convicted. However, the reason Obed Galon was not convicted is that the police invesigators did not properly handle the evidence found in Obed Galon's home laboratory. This is similar to the sloppy handling of evidence in the O.J. Simpson murder trial that lead to a verdict of innocent. Furthermore, the article says the conclusion of forgery was criticized, because the Israeli experts have not made their reasoning public. The outside experts say that the James ossuary may or may not be a forgery, but they want access to all the information before giving an opinion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ossuary

For myself, I can't believe the James ossuary is genuine when it was owned by somebody who might be a crook (even if he wasn't convicted).

Don't disrespect Wikipedia! I've found it is almost always accurate and balanced. The collaborative composition of articles means that people can correct mistakes and criticize sloppiness. I love Wikipedia. It is one of my charities.

well the scientific facts, of bacteria in the grooves of where Jesus name is engraved, prove it authentic.

as far as having everyone's fingers on the artifact....

everybody and their brother can't contaminate any ancient artifact, you need to go through the proper sources.

wikipedia of which is not a proper source, for much of anything....it has been my opinion.

maybe if I want to bake cookies.

but pretty much any source is better than a source that anyone can sign up and edit publically:

here is a brief setup of what I mean when I say wikipedia is too simplistic a source, and often times outright wrong:

http://www.ihealthbeat.org/articles...althrelated-wikipedia-articles-contain-errors
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-27586356
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120417113527.htm
http://www.conservapedia.com/Examples_of_Bias_in_Wikipedia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...rticles-Wikipedia-contain-factual-errors.html

 

[createdtoworship]

@gradyll , one last question: when you say these archaeological finds support the Bible, what do you mean exactly? Most atheists believe that Judaism evolved from earlier Near Eastern religions and that the stories in the Old Testament were myths that sometimes originated in other cultures. The flood myth is a popular example. Finding evidence of flood stories that are older than the Bible does not support the Bible as history. Christians have many different ideas about the historicity of the various Bible stories, so I don't know what you believe. For example, I don't know if you believe that there was a historical event that inspired the Garden of Eden story, or if you believe the Garden of Eden story borrowed elements from earlier stories of the Near Eastern cultures.

well I have also heard that most of the stories of the flood and ancient mesopotamia, are countefeits of the original stories found in the tanach.

so which was true?

is it simply a matter of carbon dating of the autograph, or is it more a question of which has the most wordage, and seems to be the most complete. That to me is the most important issue.

for example lower critics of the Bible reveal the Mark was probably the first written, and that various aspects and quotes appear in the other gospels that were from mark.

mark is the priority text for a higher critic, for a theologian it matters not.

but here we are trying to show how there are stories of the Bible that seem to be shown in artifacts dug up all over the world.

 

[createdtoworship]

By the way, I enjoy your thread. It's fascinating to try to understand how the Bible and Judaism originated.

I like it too, I think it is needed.

anyway, I updated my sources on my original post for the ossuary, showing the percentage of bacteria in the grooves:

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...ies-found-in-the-bible.7930436/#post-69194699

 

[Moral Orel]

I don't think you're going to find many intelligent people that are going to deny the value of the history that is recorded in The Bible. I know that plenty of archaeologists use it as a reference to help them date their finds. Is this really a point of contention for many people?

The Bible is definitely a unique book in that it shows us how the religion of Judaism and Christianity formed and evolved over time. History was recorded right along with the divine aspects that were reported, so of course there is going to be a lot of facts that can be proven to be accurate about The Bible as opposed to newer religions that claim to have history divined to them.

Trouble is, proving that The Bible recorded history accurately has absolutely no impact on whether the events of a divine nature were divine at all, or that every event recorded in The Bible happened at all. I like to point out Roswell, NM as a good example of this. People to this day insist that an alien spacecraft crash landed in Roswell, and there is plenty of historical evidence that can be verified about the crash that did happen there. There of course was no alien vessel, but it only took a few decades for an entire mythology to be built around a little bit of real historical fact.

 

[createdtoworship]

The specialists now believe that the temptation seal depicts a banquet (see Wikipedia )

Here are some random ideas:

As a non-specialist, the only distinction I can see between the left and right figure is the bull's horns. Neither figure appears to have a beard, and that seems strange. No beard implies to me that these are either women, teenage boys, or eunuchs. I vote for teenage boys, because that goes with the tree of life and the immortal snake.

The snake was a universal symbol of immortality, because people believed that the shedding of skin gave eternal life to snakes. The tree of life was another universal symbol. In some myths the tree of life was guarded by an immortal snake.

again if I am going through the proper channels...

i.e. google scholar....

I would appreciate you using accurate sources.

the fallacy in question here is called....." appeal to authority."

it is when someone states they are an authority on a subject, but really are not.

here is more info on it:

"
The dilemma with this appeal is not so much in the assertion of truth but in the true expertise of the so-called expert, who may be guessing or even joking. It is also known that if you bring together a group of experts then you are likely to get less than full agreement about any given question. The expert may not be named (and is hence an anonymous authority) or may be absent and unable to answer probing questions. In this case, it is not known whether the person quoting the expert is quoting them accurately or even making the whole thing up.
."

above quote from my favorite fallacy data base, non partisan source:

http://changingminds.org/disciplines/argument/fallacies/appeal_authority.htm

my source has among it's contributors: amnon rosenfeld who is a micro paleontologist working in Jerusalem as well as two other authors.

not wikipedia, which is publicly edited by joe the blogger. If you know what I mean.

but ultimately you are the one who is required to believe what you say, if you wish to post wikipedia, go ahead. Thats okay too.

But I choose to use sources preferably with some with an iota of a degree in the related field of science.

that way you avoid all the chatter of opinions, more so, anyway and have a more solid reference point.

 

[createdtoworship]

I don't think you're going to find many intelligent people that are going to deny the value of the history that is recorded in The Bible. I know that plenty of archaeologists use it as a reference to help them date their finds. Is this really a point of contention for many people?

The Bible is definitely a unique book in that it shows us how the religion of Judaism and Christianity formed and evolved over time. History was recorded right along with the divine aspects that were reported, so of course there is going to be a lot of facts that can be proven to be accurate about The Bible as opposed to newer religions that claim to have history divined to them.

Trouble is, proving that The Bible recorded history accurately has absolutely no impact on whether the events of a divine nature were divine at all, or that every event recorded in The Bible happened at all. I like to point out Roswell, NM as a good example of this. People to this day insist that an alien spacecraft crash landed in Roswell, and there is plenty of historical evidence that can be verified about the crash that did happen there. There of course was no alien vessel, but it only took a few decades for an entire mythology to be built around a little bit of real historical fact.

I love your comment, it is however a red herring, and non sequitur.

the OP does not specify the divine.

only the facts of archaology and if or not the Bible appears to be validated in a historical way (not divinely) by finds. I use other methods to prove inspiration of the scriptures, namely prophesy thousands of years in advance, but that is quite off topic and we can talk about that probably in other threads as time permits.

but to adress your first sentence.....I offer just one example: bart ehrman, and his books on Christ. Show at least one authority that does not believe in the history found in the Bible.

 

[Moral Orel]

I love your comment, it is however a red herring, and non sequitur.

the OP does not specify the divine.

only the facts of archaology and if or not the Bible appears to be validated in a historical way (not divinely) by finds.

It isn't a red herring and it does follow along with the point that I believe you are trying to get across. Proving the validity of some events and people in The Bible does not in any way prove the validity of all the events and people in The Bible. What it proves is that The Bible was written over a long period of time by people who (generally) were first hand witnesses of many of these events and people. I'll give you that. The trouble comes with the part of your quote that I bolded.

The Bible as a whole is not validated because it has a lot of history that is proven, only that a lot of the history behind it is proven. Perhaps it is just your phrasing in that sentence, but that seems to be the point you are making. If all you intend to prove is that The Bible was written in large part by first hand witnesses over the course of history, you win. If you intend to prove that adds validity to everything in The Bible, or The Bible as a whole, that is what doesn't follow. They are two totally different arguments, and I agree that the argument for the validity of the divine aspects of The Bible does not follow from an argument for the historical aspects.

but to adress your first sentence.....I offer just one example: bart ehrman, and his books on Christ. Show at least one authority that does not believe in the history found in the Bible.

I haven't read anything he's written, and I only just now put the tiniest bit of cursory investigation into finding out what he has. I will only say that the NT is not as impressive as the OT in terms of history only because it was written over such a short amount of time (in comparison). So there isn't a lot of history to prove for the newer as opposed to the older. And he seems to be mostly fixated on how accurate the stories are about what Jesus did and said since he is a NT scholar. I wouldn't consider that to be the same kind of history we are talking about when we speak of things like Noah's ark and the Tower of Babel.

So if you are just saying that a lot of The Bible was recorded over the course of history by first hand witnesses (generally) then I am asking where is the argument? You asked me to show one person who disagrees with that, but I'm not finding a problem with that statement so I don't know why I would. I asked at the beginning where all the fighting about this topic is because I haven't seen it.

To be more on point with your argument, in case I am just misunderstanding the point you are trying to make and assuming that you are jumping the gun to connect accurately recorded history with accurately recording divine events, I'll ask this about the finds that you have shown. In what way does finding artifacts that show people knew the basic story of, say for instance the Garden of Eden, proves the Garden of Eden existed? The one item you showed dated to ~3500 BC or so, which is ~2500 years after those events were said to have taken place, so why is this proof of a real event and not just proof that the story has been around a long time?

 

[Goonie]

It has been my experience that every time a shovel breaks ground over in Israel, it is lifted up with yet another proof in support of the Bible. This is a place to divulge those discoveries, and how they do what other religions wish to accomplish. For example, the Book of Mormon has no discovery in support of many of the ideas in the BOM, Kumorah, and other places are simply unknown to Historians. The Bible seems to be a bright and shining star however in Archaeology. I wanted to open a thread that discussed Archaeology and the Bible.

I will put other finds after this, but this one is my favorite:

Archaeological Note: Site of the Tower of Babel

“The traditional Tower of Bable isn't Borsippa, 10 Miles southwest from the center of Babylon. Sir Henry Rawlinson found in a foundation corner in Borsippa a cylinder with this inscription: “The tower of Borshppa, which a former king erected, and completed to a height of 42 cubits, whose summit he did not finish, fell to ruins in ancient times. There was no proper care of its gutters for the water; rain and storms had washed away its brick, and the tiles of its roof were broken. The great god Marduk urged me to restore it. I did not alter its site, or change its foundation walls. At a favorable time I renewed its brick work and its roofing tiles, and I wrote my name on the cornices of the edifice. I built it anew as it had been ages before; I erected its pinnacle as it was in remote days.” This seems like a tradition of the unfinished tower of Babel (Figure 22).”- above quote from: Haley’s Bible Handbook previous versions (Blue hardback, not new White one)

but "facts are stubborn things" as the saying goes.

so people can dismiss religion on a host of preconceptions and opinions, but it is harder to dismiss factual finds found in the next few posts, relating to the Bible.

Interesting thread. Have you read any David Rohl? I enjoyed his book "a test of time" that uses a recalibration of Egyptian dating to place the old testement, especially Exodus In history. Can't say I am convinced but interesting none the less.

 

[createdtoworship]

Interesting thread. Have you read any David Rohl? I enjoyed his book "a test of time" that uses a recalibration of Egyptian dating to place the old testement, especially Exodus In history. Can't say I am convinced but interesting none the less.

great, thanks for the reply....
this book....what facts did you learn from it, any expeditions?, that helped you understand about exodus?

I have some more digs on the exodus, but they are not nearly as solid of sources as the ones I provided.

but I have not heard of your book, no.

sounds interesting.