Paganism versus Christianity

[awitch]

Just like anything else, when religions change, they change for the worse.

Way to ruin Christianity all you Protestants out there.

And even if any relgions was "perfect" it cannot address the issue of the sin-debt. There is only one Lamb of God, who took away the sin of the world. Believe it.

We don't have sin-debt either and since that's not a problem I can only assume my religion is closer to perfection than yours

 

[Aryeh Jay]

You talking about actual Kaballah or the stuff celebrities get into because it's trendy?

I got my red string, just like Madonna, ‘cause it’s trendy.

 

[Robban]

There ARE many many messages in the OT about afterlife. The term used is "spirit".

Maybe because there is no such thing as afterlife?

What is dead is dead,
what is alive is alive.

In our eyes
we see death.

A body is buried in the ground,
and we must mourn the loss.

But this is only a part of the falseness of our World.
In the World of truth, they are still here as before.

Truth never dies.

Those who are one with truth do not die they pass on.

They are still working in the World, only more so.

 

[Rajni]

You need to be careful saying things like that.
It throws a wrench into the whole “sacrifice” and “He died for our sins” position.

You beat me to it.


-

 

[Job8]

You talking about actual Kaballah or the stuff celebrities get into because it's trendy?

Actual Kaballah is dangerous hocus pocus as explained by the Jewish Virtual Library:

The rabbis of the Talmud regarded the mystical study of God as important yet dangerous. A famous talmudic story tells of four rabbis, Azzai, Ben Zoma, Elisha ben Abuyah, and Akiva who would meet together and engage in mystical studies. Azzai, theTalmud records, "looked and went mad [and] Ben Zoma died." Elisha ben Abuyah became a heretic and left Judaism. Rabbi Akiva alone "entered in peace and left in peace." It was this episode, the later experiences of individuals who became mentally unbalanced while engaging in mystical activities, and the disaster of the false MessiahShabbetai Zevi that caused seventeenth-century rabbis to legislate that kabbalah should be studied only by married men over forty who were also scholars of Torah and Talmud. The medieval rabbis wanted the study of kabbalah limited to people of mature years and character.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/kabbalah.html

 

[LoAmmi]

Actual Kaballah is dangerous hocus pocus as explained by the Jewish Virtual Library:

Yeah, that's not what you quoted says.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Trust means something do not change.

No, trust means having confidence in another person, without saying anything about change or stasis.
I can trust a person to change and outgrow a specific habit, for example.
Or trust a person to acquire certain skills.
Or trust that the weather will change for the better in time for my weekend trip.

Trust does not require stasis.

 

[Eryk]

Jesus did not die.

You're wrong.

https://carm.org/apologetics/evidence-and-answers/death-and-resurrection-passages-new-testament

 

[Robban]

You're wrong.

https://carm.org/apologetics/evidence-and-answers/death-and-resurrection-passages-new-testament

Why so abrupt Eryk?

Is not death seperation of soul from body?

 

[juvenissun]

Maybe because there is no such thing as afterlife?

What is dead is dead,
what is alive is alive.

In our eyes
we see death.

A body is buried in the ground,
and we must mourn the loss.

But this is only a part of the falseness of our World.
In the World of truth, they are still here as before.

Truth never dies.

Those who are one with truth do not die they pass on.

They are still working in the World, only more so.

The Pentateuch teaches rules of the current world.
Other Books in the OT clearly suggest life after death.
Do you Jews recognize other Books in the OT as scriptures in your faith? Do you believe what King Solomon said? Or what Prophet Isaiah said?

 

[juvenissun]

You're wrong.

https://carm.org/apologetics/evidence-and-answers/death-and-resurrection-passages-new-testament

Not a useful link.
Jesus did not die.

 

[juvenissun]

No, trust means having confidence in another person, without saying anything about change or stasis.
I can trust a person to change and outgrow a specific habit, for example.
Or trust a person to acquire certain skills.
Or trust that the weather will change for the better in time for my weekend trip.

Trust does not require stasis.

... that he is "always" right (on a particular consideration).
This person is not changing on that nature. That is what you trust.
If you trust God, then what God says is "always" right. Even He said it 10,000 years ago.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

The Pentateuch teaches rules of the current world.
Other Books in the OT clearly suggest life after death.

Suggest is not confirm

 

[Eryk]

Not a useful link.
Jesus did not die.

A belief you share with Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus'_death

It's not the belief of the vast majority of Christians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles'_Creed#English_translations

 

[dcalling]

We were speaking about the afterlife, not the general flow between the OT and the NT. The OT rarely mentions the afterlife. Then it's a big deal in the New Testament. Big big change.

Not really, either OT nor NT talk much about after life, they are for people who are still alive. Just OT is more "unclear" base on how you interpret some words.

 

[Robban]

The Pentateuch teaches rules of the current world.
Other Books in the OT clearly suggest life after death.
Do you Jews recognize other Books in the OT as scriptures in your faith? Do you believe what King Solomon said? Or what Prophet Isaiah said?

There are things that are alluded to even if the text does not shout it out,

However, What is death?

Is it not the seperation of the soul from the body?

So, the body dies but the soul lives on,

How then can there be an afterlife if the soul does not die?

What is dead is dead,
what is alive is alive.

 

[dcalling]

There are things that are alluded to even if the text does not shout it out,

However, What is death?

Is it not the seperation of the soul from the body?

So, the body dies but the soul lives on,

How then can there be an afterlife if the soul does not die?

What is dead is dead,
what is alive is alive.

Can't the after life be the life of the soul?

 

[juvenissun]

However, What is death?
Is it not the seperation of the soul from the body?
So, the body dies but the soul lives on,
How then can there be an afterlife if the soul does not die?

Well, that is what the afterlife means to most people.

 

[Robban]

Well, that is what the afterlife means to most people.

juvenissun, dcalling,
I may have given the impression that I take
death lightly,
I do not.
Heaven forbid
.
I have not the right to butt in on others lives
What others regard as to what is what and what will happen,

well if it suits them, we all have our needs I suppose.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Does denying Jesus's death qualify as "unorthodox Christianity", or are we talking heresy here?

Personally, I think most religions have an unhealthy obsession with death, and a lack of focus on life.
Yes, they all claim to be "pro-life". But if you think about it, they're "pro [hypothetical] AFTERlife" at best.
Actual life is either reduced to an insignificant prelude to eternity, or else portrayed as an obstacle to be overcome.

Judaism seems to be one of the few (or perhaps the only) exception to this rule among the established religions.