Paganism versus Christianity

[gord44]

Why isn't the whole "New" Testament a change then? Shouldn't the "Old" Testament have been sufficient? Having an old and a new sounds like a change to me, so clearly I can't choose the religion in front of you.

Interestingly enough there is a theology in Kaballah that speaks of God as evolving slowly over time with the help of people. Basically humans were created so God could self realize and learn and grow.

 

[Eryk]

Why isn't the whole "New" Testament a change then? Shouldn't the "Old" Testament have been sufficient? Having an old and a new sounds like a change to me, so clearly I can't choose the religion in front of you.

The temple sacrifices have been replaced and fulfilled by the cross, the sabbath has been replaced by our relationship with Jesus (come to me and I will give you rest) and the kingship of David was a type of the kingship of Christ. So there is a progression in the religion without a change in the nature of God.

 

[Rajni]

Other things can change.
God should NEVER change.

But that doesn't mean that a religion should remain static,
which was what I think awitch was talking about.

A perfect Deity can remain changeless, because there's no
improving on perfection, but the religions that focus on that
deity benefit from change if that change brings those
religions more in line with the true nature of that deity.


-

 

[juvenissun]

Why not?

Trust means something do not change.

 

[juvenissun]

But that doesn't mean that a religion should remain static,
which was what I think awitch was talking about.

A perfect Deity can remain changeless, because there's no
improving on perfection, but the religions that focus on that
deity benefit from change if that change brings those
religions more in line with the true nature of that deity.


-

Change in religion means the change on the deity of the religion.
Zeus may die. So Zeus can not be trusted.
The original Buddha does not talk about life after death. Later Buddhism talked a lot about life after death. Big big change.

 

[LoAmmi]

Interestingly enough there is a theology in Kaballah that speaks of God as evolving slowly over time with the help of people. Basically humans were created so God could self realize and learn and grow.

Caution should be taken whenever approaching Kaballah topics. Essentially, one needs a full education in both Torah and Talmud before even looking at it because of the great chance of confusion of the teachings.

 

[gord44]

Caution should be taken whenever approaching Kaballah topics. Essentially, one needs a full education in both Torah and Talmud before even looking at it because of the great chance of confusion of the teachings.

Of course. Just something I stumbled across when I was into Kaballah and the occult for a while.

 

[gord44]

The original Buddha does not talk about life after death. Later Buddhism talked a lot about life after death. Big big change.

Kinda like the OT compared to the NT.

 

[Rajni]

Change in religion means the change on the deity of thereligion.

Depends on the deity, I suppose. Otherwise, if
the deity in question is perfect, then it’s simply
the perspective of the corresponding religion’s
adherents that changed, not the deity itself.

Zeus may die. So Zeus can not be trusted.

I don’t see Zeus as being a perfect deity, so
yeah…

Wait – Jesus died, does that mean that Jesus
can’t be trusted?

The original Buddha does not talk about life after death. Later Buddhism talked a lot about life after death. Big big change.

That illustrates a change in a religion, not
necessarily a change on a deity’s part.


-

 

[awitch]

Wait – Jesus died, does that mean that Jesus
can’t be trusted?

Oh snap.

 

[juvenissun]

Kinda like the OT compared to the NT.

No. OT and NT are continuous and consistent. God and His message in OT and NT are the same. Gen. is echoed and completed in Rev, no more and no less.
No other religion says the same.

 

[gord44]

No. OT and NT are continuous and consistent. God and His message in OT and NT are the same. Gen. is echoed and completed in Rev, no more and no less.
No other religion says the same.

We were speaking about the afterlife, not the general flow between the OT and the NT. The OT rarely mentions the afterlife. Then it's a big deal in the New Testament. Big big change.

 

[juvenissun]

Depends on the deity, I suppose. Otherwise, if
the deity in question is perfect, then it’s simply
the perspective of the corresponding religion’s
adherents that changed, not the deity itself.

I don’t see Zeus as being a perfect deity, so
yeah…

Wait – Jesus died, does that mean that Jesus
can’t be trusted?

That illustrates a change in a religion, not
necessarily a change on a deity’s part.


-

Jesus did not die. In fact, this is the key. It is implied at the very beginning of the Bible. And it is illustrated at the end of the Bible. The message never changed from the very beginning.

OK, deity does not change, but the religion changed. Can this be illustrated by an example in Buddhism? What is the deity at the very beginning? How is the later religion becomes better than the initial religion?

 

[juvenissun]

We were speaking about the afterlife, not the general flow between the OT and the NT. The OT rarely mentions the afterlife. Then it's a big deal in the New Testament. Big big change.

There ARE many many messages in the OT about afterlife. The term used is "spirit".

 

[Job8]

Caution should be taken whenever approaching Kaballah topics. Essentially, one needs a full education in both Torah and Talmud before even looking at it because of the great chance of confusion of the teachings.

Isn't Kaballah just more hocus pocus?

 

[Job8]

OK, deity does not change, but the religion changed. Can this be illustrated by an example in Buddhism? What is the deity at the very beginning? How is the later religion becomes better than the initial religion?

Just like anything else, when religions change, they change for the worse. Compare the theoretical teachings of Buddha and the actual Buddhist practices in Asia, and it should be evident. Idolatry is rife in Buddhism, just as it is in most other religions. And even if any relgions was "perfect" it cannot address the issue of the sin-debt. There is only one Lamb of God, who took away the sin of the world. Believe it.

 

[gord44]

There ARE many many messages in the OT about afterlife. The term used is "spirit".

Afraid not.

 

[LoAmmi]

Isn't Kaballah just more hocus pocus?

You talking about actual Kaballah or the stuff celebrities get into because it's trendy?

 

[gord44]

Isn't Kaballah just more hocus pocus?

It's more esoteric. Not for everyone, that's for sure. Every branch of religion seems to have it's mystics.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Jesus did not die. In fact, this is the key. It is implied at the very beginning of the Bible. And it is illustrated at the end of the Bible. The message never changed from the very beginning.

OK, deity does not change, but the religion changed. Can this be illustrated by an example in Buddhism? What is the deity at the very beginning? How is the later religion becomes better than the initial religion?

You need to be careful saying things like that.
It throws a wrench into the whole “sacrifice” and “He died for our sins” position.