Calvinism, explained.

[jimmyjimmy]

I don't know if 'announced' is the word I would use. To announce is just to state something to a group of people.

The gospel is an announcement - a proclamation; therefore, it must be proclaimed. That's exactly what they did. Peter preached and 3,00 were added. . .

What is to give our testimony and the gospel legs is that our lives are changed. That is why we are to be a light to the world, a light that shines bright in the darkness.

Poppycock. So, how do you proclaim the gospel to a stranger, which is exactly what the apostles did. People would have to know you well to see any good deeds, and if they knew too well, they will see your sin too. . .

Personal testimony in words and deeds always outshines just words alone.

Double poppycock. What is "personal testimony" and where are we instructed to talk about ourselves in God's word? The gospel is about Christ. It's His story that we are to proclaim, not how you gave up drinking, dancing, and R-rated movies. . .

 

[ToBeLoved]

Poppycock. So, how to you proclaim the gospel to a stranger, which is exactly what the apostles did. People would have to know you well to see any good deeds, and if they know you very well, they will see your sin as well.

1 Peter 2:11
11Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; 12Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Are you disagreeing with the Word of God?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Double poppycock. What is "personal testimony" and where are we instructed to talk about ourselves in God's word? The gospel is about Christ. It's His story that we are to proclaim, not how you gave up drinking, dancing, and R-rated movies. . .

Personal testimony of how we live our lives differently and that shows we have changed.

Matthew 5:14-16
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

[ladodgers6]

The gospel is an announcement - a proclamation; therefore, it must be proclaimed. That's exactly what they did. Peter preached and 3,00 were added. . .



Poppycock. So, how to you proclaim the gospel to a stranger, which is exactly what the apostles did. People would have to know you well to see any good deeds, and if they know you very well, they will see your sin as well.



Double poppycock. What is "personal testimony" and where are we instructed to talk about ourselves in God's word? The gospel is about Christ. It's His story that we are to proclaim, not how you gave up drinking, dancing, and R-rated movies. . .

Great post.

 

[ladodgers6]

1 Peter 2:11
11Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; 12Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Are you disagreeing with the Word of God?

No,he is explaining the Proclamation of the Gospel! Do our works contribute anything to the Gospel???

 

[ladodgers6]

Personal testimony of how we live our lives differently and that shows we have changed.

Matthew 5:14-16
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

There is no argument that as believers we must walk in righteousness.But our salvation lies in Christ Alone! These good deeds flow from our Justification in Christ Alone apart from any works.Would you agree with this?

 

[ToBeLoved]

No,he is explaining the Proclamation of the Gospel! Do our works contribute anything to the Gospel???

I see. You consider that to be just the words. Why not tape recorded it and push play whenever you meet someone then?

 

[ToBeLoved]

There is no argument that as believers we must walk in righteousness.But our salvation lies in Christ Alone! These good deeds flow from our Justification in Christ Alone apart from any works.Would you agree with this?

Did you miss the part where I wrote "personal testimony"?

Now your trying to make it seem like I think I can get to heaven without Jesus. lol. Please read what I wrote.

 

[ladodgers6]

Did you miss the part where I wrote "personal testimony"?

Now your trying to make it seem like I think I can get to heaven without Jesus. lol. Please read what I wrote.

No that is not what I said.I am asking why a personal testimony when you have the Gospel??? How does your personal testimony take place of the proclamation of the Gospel???

 

[ladodgers6]

I see. You consider that to be just the words. Why not tape recorded it and push play whenever you meet someone then?

Again thinking that your personal testimony adds power to the Gospel?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Here's the really good news for all mankind: You are not Jesus!

The Bible is not about you. The gospel is not about you. Whether or not a person comes to faith is not within your control. You can't "be Jesus" to anyone. If you are a Christian, you are merely a sinner saved by grace, not an example of moral perfection.

Calvinism can be summed up this way: God is God. My recommendation to all is to let Him do His job, and stop trying to rob His glory. That's right. When you delude yourself into thinking that a person can/will come to faith in Jesus because he sees your life (your personal testimony) you are claiming glory that belongs to Christ. He died for sinners, not you. He lived a life of full obedience to the law, not you. . .

 

[ToBeLoved]

Again thinking that your personal testimony adds power to the Gospel?

Of course it does. The Word tells us that others see what we do and that when we preach the gospel we should be living that change in us. That is one of the reasons that Christ wants us to be lights in the world.

 

[EmSw]

Of course it does. The Word tells us that others see what we do and that when we preach the gospel we should be living that change in us.

ToBeLoved, here are some passages which help you.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

2 Corinthians 9
12 For the administration of this service not only supplies the needs of the saints, but also is abounding through many thanksgivings to God,
13 while, through the proof of this ministry, they glorify God for the obedience of your confession to the gospel of Christ,

 

[ToBeLoved]

There is no argument that as believers we must walk in righteousness.But our salvation lies in Christ Alone! These good deeds flow from our Justification in Christ Alone apart from any works.Would you agree with this?

Our changed lives are testimony of the POWER of the GOSPEL. That Christ is real and the changes in lives are real. Like Christ was, we are to be a personal, walking, talking, living differently now testimony to Jesus.

Note above, I said testimony, not salvation.

Note also that I did not say that the power is in us, but in what after our salvation, CHRIST has done in us.

 

[ladodgers6]

Our changed lives are testimony of the POWER of the GOSPEL. That Christ is real and the changes in lives are real. Like Christ was, we are to be a personal, walking, talking, living differently now testimony to Jesus.

Note above, I said testimony, not salvation.

Note also that I did not say that the power is in us, but in what after our salvation, CHRIST has done in us.

I am asking you why replace the Gospel with OUR personal testimony? Is the Gospel not enough?

 

[ladodgers6]

Of course it does. The Word tells us that others see what we do and that when we preach the gospel we should be living that change in us. That is one of the reasons that Christ wants us to be lights in the world.

No it does not.We do not make the Cross effective by OUR activity!

 

[ladodgers6]

Here's the really good news for all mankind: You are not Jesus!

The Bible is not about you. The gospel is not about you. Whether or not a person comes to faith is not within your control. You can't "be Jesus" to anyone. If you are a Christian, you are merely a sinner saved by grace, not an example of moral perfection.

Calvinism can be summed up this way: God is God. My recommendation to all is to let Him do His job, and stop trying to rob His glory. That's right. When you delude yourself into thinking that a person can/will come to faith in Jesus because he sees your life (your personal testimony) you are claiming glory that belongs to Christ. He died for sinners, not you. He lived a life of full obedience to the law, not you. . .

Amen! I would like to share that,the Gospel is always the announcement of this unfolding redemptive plot.As good news,it can only be told,not done,by us.

 

[ToBeLoved]

No that is not what I said.I am asking why a personal testimony when you have the Gospel??? How does your personal testimony take place of the proclamation of the Gospel???

A personal testimony does not have to be words.

For instance. I have a working relationship with someone who I have worked with for four years. If that person has seen me do things like lying or stealing AND then I proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ to them, does my talking about how Jesus has changed me from the inside out hold the same weight as someone who would share the gospel with them who was exactly like me BUT DID NOT lie and steal?

Have you ever heard the term "talk is cheap"? People say that because it is so much easier to talk about what you are going to do than to actually do it. So people naturally look at a person's actions and what they know about the person in a conversation and in sharing the gospel it is no different if that person knows you.

Does that make sense? That many or even most people say a a lot of things, but many do not feel compelled enough to make a change in their lives and/or lifestyle to refect that.

So, personal testimony is NOT ONLY about words, but also deeds.

 

[ToBeLoved]

No it does not.We do not make the Cross effective by OUR activity!

I think this conversation is over your head.

I have tried to patiently explain what I am talking about but you do not seem to understand, so let's move on. Sometimes people need to think a few minutes about what the other person is saying instead of adding their own opinion before they even understand what is being said.

 

[ladodgers6]

A personal testimony does not have to be words.

For instance. I have a working relationship with someone who I have worked with for four years. If that person has seen me do things like lying or stealing AND then I proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ to them, does my talking about how Jesus has changed me from the inside out hold the same weight as someone who would share the gospel with them who was exactly like me BUT DID NOT lie and steal?

Have you ever heard the term "talk is cheap"? People say that because it is so much easier to talk about what you are going to do than to actually do it. So people naturally look at a person's actions and what they know about the person in a conversation and in sharing the gospel it is no different if that person knows you.

Does that make sense? That many or even most people say a a lot of things, but many do not feel compelled enough to make a change in their lives and/or lifestyle to refect that.

So, personal testimony is NOT ONLY about words, but also deeds.

I understand what you are saying,but our works even as believers are not the cause of our Redemption,they are the effects of it.That's all I am saying.