Why do people believe in a Rapture?

[Riberra]

There is a very interesting track found in Texas (I think) where a human footprint is formed in rock right over a dinosaur print.

After analysis it was determined that it was not dinosaur print but birds print .

 

[Luke17:37]

Then Adam and EVE must have been good runners for not being devored by Tyrannosaurus rex

http://www.google.ca/search?q=t+rex...gfe_rd=cr&ei=FVqRVvH0CIXd8gesx7roBg&gws_rd=cr

God created Adam, Eve, and T-Rex to be vegetarian.

Genesis 1:29-30
29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.

The Bible doesn't say when the animals were allowed to eat meat.

Men weren't allowed to eat meat until after the flood.

Genesis 9:3
Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.

 

[iamlamad]

Why certainly, and indeed it will be sounded by an angel. Revelation 8:2 the angels that stand before God are given trumpets. Who gives the trumpets to the angels who stand before God? They're standing right before God. Wouldn't logic say these are given by God? Trumpets of God, or did the angels make the trumpets? Or are they trumpets of God? Whenever an angel sounds a trumpet it's very specific not to refer to the trumpet as "his" or "their trumpet". These were trumpets given to the angels by God, maybe not directly handed by God, but all things are Gods. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 the Greek word for trumpet is salpingi. No article indicating whether it is the (definite),or a (indefinite). It would directly translate with trumpet of God.

Look, I am cool with your view. I'd rather have you be overly cautious than slack. At least you know He will return to gather His church. But, on the contrary, I believe in the next few years you may begin to rethink you position. I wish you were right. But, with things I've been shown, I'm afraid you're mistaken.

I have not the tiniest fear that I am mistaken. It is not the ownership of the trumpets in question: it is WHO sounds them. When "the trump of God" is written I think it is concerning the sounder, NOT the owner. One might add, everything made of matter belongs to God, for all matter came from God's creation.

My whole point is that the 7th trumpet, sounded by an angel is NOT what Paul was referring to as "the last trump." Sure, it is the last of that series written in Revelation, but they have nothing to do with Paul's "last trump" which will be sounded by Jesus Christ Himself.

 

[Riberra]

God created Adam, Eve, and T-Rex to be vegetarian.

Check out the teeths of a T-rex and compare it with cows teeths for example and you will realise that T-rex was not a vegetarian.

 

[Fusion77]

Except John tells us that God's wrath really begins at the 6th seal. What do you do with that verse? What do you do with each trumpet judgment that is fulfilling the Day of the Lord verses from the Old Covenant?

I'm afraid you've been confused by the book of Revelation. It appears you believe it will all occur in chronological order. Is that correct? I agree, the seals, trumpets and vials are in chronological order. Besides that there's is past, and future. Revelation 1:19

Please show us by scripture what brings you to the belief of the rapture in Rev. 11

 

[Fusion77]

Please show us by scripture what brings you to the belief of the rapture in Rev. 11.

Revelation 11:15-17. Here we are told the kingdoms of the world become His. That appears to signify church removed, time for judgement to be executed, and then earth cleansed.

 

[Luke17:37]

Check out the teeths of a T-rex and compare it with cows teeths for example and you will realise that T-rex was not a vegetarian.

Check out the Bible (I already cited the passage), and you will see that T-Rex was originally vegetarian. It doesn't mean T-Rex persisted that way until extinction. If you refuse to believe, then you are elevating man's authority over God's authority. This is a serious problem and is bound to affect your faith in more ways than this, and maybe even your children's faith (many kids today reject Christianity altogether because if they can't trust Genesis, they can't trust any of the Bible).

And like I said, the scoffers will deny God's creation by water, His global flood, and the literal return of Christ. It's important to take God at His Word. Genesis is true history and is the foundation of the gospel. If God created using millions of years of death and struggle, it would be dishonest for Him to say that death is the penalty for sin (Genesis 2:17). And God does not lie. And if death is not the penalty for sin, Jesus' death as a righteous substitute will not be effective to bring peace between God and man. This is important.

 

[Luke17:37]

Revelation 11:15-17. Here we are told the kingdoms of the world become His. That appears to signify church removed, time for judgement to be executed, and then earth cleansed.

That doesn't say anything about the church being removed. It means He has begun to reign as King over the earth. Other passages, but not this one, speak of judgment and cleansing the earth.

 

[Fusion77]

Revelation 11:15-17. Here we are told the kingdoms of the world become His. That appears to signify church removed, time for judgement to be executed, and then earth cleansed.

Of course, there's is much more fun that leads me to this position.

 

[Fusion77]

That doesn't say anything about the church being removed. It means He has begun to reign as King over the earth. Other passages, but not this one, speak of judgment and cleansing the earth.

That doesn't say anything about the church being removed. It means He has begun to reign as King over the earth. Other passages, but not this one, speak of judgment and cleansing the earth.

Right, you won't see it as I see it. I will have to be more descriptive, and give the timetable, which leads me to this belief.

 

[Riberra]

Check out the Bible (I already cited the passage), and you will see that T-Rex was originally vegetarian. It doesn't mean T-Rex persisted that way until extinction.

Let see the program on the 5Th day God created all the animal walking on the Earth including all the big dinosaurs to be vegetarians ....then on the 6Th day God created Adam and Eve ....Adam and Eve falled in sin few moments after their creation then God cursed all the animals and the T-rex to became carnivorous until the flood who destroyed them all .

 

[Fusion77]

I have not the tiniest fear that I am mistaken. It is not the ownership of the trumpets in question: it is WHO sounds them. When "the trump of God" is written I think it is concerning the sounder, NOT the owner. One might add, everything made of matter belongs to God, for all matter came from God's creation.

My whole point is that the 7th trumpet, sounded by an angel is NOT what Paul was referring to as "the last trump." Sure, it is the last of that series written in Revelation, but they have nothing to do with Paul's "last trump" which will be sounded by Jesus Christ Himself.

How many clear examples are there in scripture of the Lord himself blowing s trumpet?

If there's 7 trumpets, and 7 is #7 out of 7 wouldn't this be the last?

 

[Postvieww]

A Few quotes from Apostolic Fathers:

“O unreasoning men! Understanding not what has been proved by all these passages , that two advents of Christ have been announced: the one, in which He is set forth as suffering, inglorious, dishonoured, and crucified; but the other , in which He shall come from heaven with glory , when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians ,who having learned the true worship of God from the law, and the word which went forth from Jerusalem by means of the apostles of Jesus,”

From: “Dialogue of Justin Philosopher and Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew” Chapter CX

The Researchers Library of Ancient Texts Volume 2 page 227


“For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming pf Antichrist, and the destruction of all nations under his rule; in {the times of} which {resurrection} the righteous shall reign in the earth, waxing stronger by the sight of the Lord: and through Him they shall become accustomed to partake in the glory of God the Father, and shall enjoy in the kingdom intercourse and communion with the holy angels, and union with spiritual beings; and {with respect to } those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven and who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one. For it is in reference to them that the prophet says: “ And those that are left shall multiply upon the earth,” And Jeremiah the prophet has pointed out , that as many believers as God has prepared for this purpose, to multiply those left upon the earth, should be under the rule of saints to minister to this Jerusalem, and that {His} Kingdom shall be in it, saying, “Look around Jerusalem towards the east, and behold the joy which comes to thee from God Himself. “

From: Irenaeus Against Heresies Book V Chapter XXXV

The Researchers Library of Ancient Texts Volume 2 page 523


“For the prophets have proclaimed two advents of His: the one, that which is already past , when He came as a dishonoured and suffering Man; but the second, when. According to prophecy, He shall come from heaven with glory , accompamied by His angelic host, when also He shall raise the bodies of all men who have lived, and shall clothe those of the worthy with immortality, shall send those of the wicked, endued with eternal sensibility, into everlasting fire with the wicked devils.”

From: The First Apology of Justin Chapter LII

The Researchers Library of Ancient Texts Volume 2 page 154

Would love to see some quotes pre trib from the time period!

 

[iamlamad]

No, I believe Jesus returns after the tribulation. I believe all of those are the same. I believe the events in Revelation 11:1-15 are the final events. All the same as Daniel 7:25 Daniel 12:7 Daniel 12:11 Revelation 12:14 and Revelation 13:5. All the same time period with the 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 starting about 25 days after Daniel 12:11 has begun, and ending just before the 1290 days are completed.1260+ 25+ 3.5 plus 1.5 or so for the church to be caught up after the 7th trumpet. this time period is the from abomination of desolation. After that, the Church is gathered or caught up.

OF COURSE He Returns after the tribulation. I think we ALL agree on that. But He also comes before the "tribulation" to get His saints.

Just in case you have not noticed, chapter 11 seems to be in the MIDDLE of the book, not at the end. In fact, the 7th trumpet which is written in chapter 11 marks the EXACT MIDPOINT. How then can it be the midpoint and the end at the same time?

Did you not notice that those in Judea that flee (Jesus TOLD them to flee the moment they see the abomination that divides the week) flee right after the 7th trumpet? Therefore 12:6 is perhaps a second or two after the midpoint.

The 70th week is marked by 7's: the 7th seal opens the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint, and the 7th vial ends it. It is fact, John saw the great crowd, too large to number - the JUST RAPTURED CHURCH - in heaven before the 70th week begins.

There are 5 ....no, 6 parallel paths down the last half of the week:
42 months of trampling
1260 days of testifying
1260 days of fleeing
3.5 years or feeding
42 months of authority

Finally, the last half as John goes through his narrative of chapters 11,12, 13...on to 16.

 

[iamlamad]

How many clear examples are there in scripture of the Lord himself blowing s trumpet?

If there's 7 trumpets, and 7 is #7 out of 7 wouldn't this be the last?

OF COURSE a 5th grader could see that #7 is the last of THAT series. But that series has nothing to do with Paul's "last trump."

 

[Hoghead1]

I don't agree, Luke 17. It is much more complicated than that. Parts of the Bible may be right one, others not. It all depends what specific passages you are reading. Also, I don't know where you get this T-Rex bit. T-Rex was a meat eater. There is nothing said about T-Rex in Genesis at all. You are reading something into the text that was not originally intended, and thereby contaminating the text.

 

[Postvieww]

I have not the tiniest fear that I am mistaken. It is not the ownership of the trumpets in question: it is WHO sounds them. When "the trump of God" is written I think it is concerning the sounder, NOT the owner. One might add, everything made of matter belongs to God, for all matter came from God's creation.

My whole point is that the 7th trumpet, sounded by an angel is NOT what Paul was referring to as "the last trump." Sure, it is the last of that series written in Revelation, but they have nothing to do with Paul's "last trump" which will be sounded by Jesus Christ Himself.

Lamad said:

My whole point is that the 7th trumpet, sounded by an angel is NOT what Paul was referring to as "the last trump." Sure, it is the last of that series written in Revelation, but they have nothing to do with Paul's "last trump" which will be sounded by Jesus Christ Himself.

1 Thessalonians 4:16

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The passage simply does not say who blew it! Just as 1 Corin 15:52 does not say who blew it, nor does it connect Christ with it. You may assume Christ blew it to get around the 7th trumpet being that trumpet . Last in a series is more evidence than an assumption. There is no other last trumpet mentioned in scripture. I’ll stick with what we can prove from the bible.

 

[Luke17:37]

Let see the program on the 5Th day God created all the animal walking on the Earth including all the big dinosaurs to be vegetarians ....then on the 6Th day God created Adam and Eve ....Adam and Eve falled in sin few moments after their creation then God cursed all the animals and the T-rex to became carnivorous until the flood who destroyed them all .

No, on the fifth day God made the creatures that live in the sea and on the sixth day He made the land animals and man.

Like I said, the Bible doesn't say when the animals started eating meat, but it was probably after the flood. Why? Because God only took a pair of most animals and 7 of others (the extras were for a burnt offering after the flood). Therefore, the animals weren't eating each other on the ark. They must have been eating the same diet God gave them in Genesis 1. And by the way, T-Rex (or a kind he descended from) would have been on the ark, too. God took at least two of every air-breathing animal kind. This does not mean species--the many species we see today are descended from the (fewer) animal kinds of Noah's day.

I imagine God is grieved to hear your mocking of His Word.

Revelation 19:13
He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

 

[Hoghead1]

The trumpets, huh? I sued to play pic (piccolo trumpet). Had fun playing the "Messiah," and being the "last trumpet." Play French horn now. Do you like classical music? Your material would go well with the Verdi Requiem "Dies Irae, " or the even bigger one by Berlioz.

 

[Riberra]

I imagine God is grieved to hear your mocking of His Word.

I am not mocking God's words it is just that T-Rex does not fit in the equation of being a vegetarian eating grass or fruits.