Historical Church Leaders Call Pope Antichrist

[MarkRohfrietsch]

James was the leader of the community and the bishop of Rome had not yet been established by Peter/Paul.

Right. I have heard the argument that since St. James was the first Bishop, he was the first Pope. Not saying I agree or disagree, but it is interesting to consider.

 

[BobRyan]

Charles Spurgeon
"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name."

There are several other quotes from him like this. I respect Spurgeon but I do not respect these statements in any way. My brothers and sisters, may the peace of our Lord Jesus be with all.

hmm that would include the "Westminster Confession of Faith".
Martin Luther.
"The Baptist Confession of Faith" --

All of Protestantism for the first few 100 years of it.... "not respected" at first by the Catholic Church alone -and later by some Evangelicals and Protestants. Who knows in a few more years - 'not respected at all'

 

[ViaCrucis]

Note that this argument would be very interesting if I were a Roman Catholic...as it happens I'm not, thus I fear you deployed the wrong polemic.

One suspects that she's used to arguing against Petrine primacy and thus rather than actually addressing your point and your usage of Matthew's Gospel she instead fell back upon basic programming.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Wgw]

Well, it seems he was often in a leadership position. Pope, not sure. St. James of Jerusalem seems to have been the chair of the 1st Ecumenical Counsel; St. James the first Pope?

Oh, and BTW, Luther did not call the Pope the anti-Christ, but the powers and attributes imparted on that office by the Popes themselves; Papal Supremacy and Infallibility (same things the EO had issues with).

On this point, when the Patriarch of Constantinople prefaced his title with Ecumenical, Pope St. Gregory the Great (St. Gregory Diologos), who is much loved in Orthodoxy, misunderstanding the word "ecumenical," said that any bishop who claimed universal jurisdiction would be the precursor to the anti-Christ.

Right. I have heard the argument that since St. James was the first Bishop, he was the first Pope. Not saying I agree or disagree, but it is interesting to consider.

St. James the Just could not have been the first Pope, as Pope is derived from Papem, a title used by the Patriarch of Alexandria since the second century, and the Roman archbishop since, IIRC, the sixth. Interestingly both Ss. Athanasius and Cyril were Popes, whereas their Roman counterparts were not, interestingly enough. St. James was most likely primus inter pares in Jerusalem at least.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

On this point, when the Patriarch of Constantinople prefaced his title with Ecumenical, Pope St. Gregory the Great (St. Gregory Diologos), who is much loved in Orthodoxy, misunderstanding the word "ecumenical," said that any bishop who claimed universal jurisdiction would be the precursor to the anti-Christ.



St. James the Just could not have been the first Pope, as Pope is derived from Papem, a title used by the Patriarch of Alexandria since the second century, and the Roman archbishop since, IIRC, the sixth. Interestingly both Ss. Athanasius and Cyril were Popes, whereas their Roman counterparts were not, interestingly enough. St. James was most likely primus inter pares in Jerusalem at least.

Good post. Primus inter pares regarding the 12?

 

[Wgw]

Good post. Primus inter pares regarding the 12?

Primus inter pares of the surviving members of the twelve together with St. Paul who were present at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15, and primus inter pares in the local church of Jerusalem.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Primus inter pares of the surviving members of the twelve together with St. Paul who were present at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15, and primus inter pares in the local church of Jerusalem.

To me, while not in name, but in authority would be my thoughts.

 

[Optimax]

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous".

Pope Nicholas I declared that "the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who, being God, cannot be judged by man." - Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can. 7, Satis evidentur, Decret GratianPrimer Para.

"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty" ...Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894,

Jesus must be confused.

He thinks He has all power (which includes authority) in heaven and earth.

Matt 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. KJV

 

[Erose]

Really?! What's so obscure about the quote, it reads as clear as the light of day. Just because it doesn't mesh with catholic theology only means that the catholic laity has been deceived as to the true spirit of the Papacy. To all those that value Truth and the Word of God as sacred, God says to come out of this apostate church or else you will receive of her plagues.

How about supplying a link to the full rendering of what was said, so that we can see it for ourselves. Look Catholic theology has never ever taught that the pope was God or above God. Catholic theology does teach though that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ, which in all reality all bishops are over that which they are made shepherds thereof.

 

[Optimax]

Jesus also thinks that He is the head of the church.


Eph 1:22-23
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church ,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. KJV

Who is the confused one?

Jesus?

Pope?


Easy answer.

The pope is confused, not Jesus.

 

[Erose]

Jesus also thinks that He is the head of the church.


Eph 1:22-23
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church ,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. KJV

Who is the confused one?

Jesus?

Pope?


Easy answer.

The pope is confused, not Jesus.

The Catholic Church, nor the pope rejects the fact that Jesus is the Head of the Church. That has never ever been in question. The pope is the head of Church militant, because Christ left him in charge. He gave Peter the keys of stewardship. It is as simple as that. It is just like the bishops are the heads of their diocese, because Christ gave them the authority to be so. All authority of the pope and the rest of the bishops comes from Christ. Just like me as a father of my children, was given to me by God the Father. Doesn't mean that I'm the Father, just that I am a father over my own kids. There isn't an either/or, but rather a both/and; because you are comparing apples and oranges here.

 

[Optimax]

The Catholic Church, nor the pope rejects the fact that Jesus is the Head of the Church. That has never ever been in question. The pope is the head of Church militant, because Christ left him in charge. He gave Peter the keys of stewardship. It is as simple as that. It is just like the bishops are the heads of their diocese, because Christ gave them the authority to be so. All authority of the pope and the rest of the bishops comes from Christ. Just like me as a father of my children, was given to me by God the Father. Doesn't mean that I'm the Father, just that I am a father over my own kids. There isn't an either/or, but rather a both/and; because you are comparing apples and oranges here.

Big jump from what Jesus told Peter and leaving him in charge/making him pope.

Jesus did give five ministry gifts.

Pope is never mentioned.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I dont get a militant deal

 

[Erose]

Big jump from what Jesus told Peter and leaving him in charge/making him pope.

Jesus did give five ministry gifts.

Pope is never mentioned.

Yeah your right the title pope wasn't mentioned was it? There is a bunch of words we all use in daily in religious context that is not in Scripture.

And no not a big jump at all, since I just pointed out to you that you are using a false narrative to argue with.

 

[Erose]

I dont get a militant deal

In Catholic theology, we teach something called the "Communion of Saints" basically what that means is that the whole Church is in communion through her head our Lord Jesus Christ. That Church is just not here on earth, it is also in heaven as well. Thus to differentiate between the members of the Church who are on earth and in heaven, we use the terms "Church militant" for those of us still hear on earth; and "Church triumphant" for those who have moved on to heaven.

 

[Fireinfolding]

In Catholic theology, we teach something called the "Communion of Saints" basically what that means is that the whole Church is in communion through her head our Lord Jesus Christ. That Church is just not here on earth, it is also in heaven as well. Thus to differentiate between the members of the Church who are on earth and in heaven, we use the terms "Church militant" for those of us still hear on earth; and "Church triumphant" for those who have moved on to heaven.

Thanks for clarifying that, I just didn't get the militant (as self applying) given the definition, like why that would be chosen.

 

[Erose]

Thanks for clarifying that, I just didn't get the militant (as self applying) given the definition, like why that would be chosen.

It was used for a few reasons. Those of us here on earth, are in a war with this world and its prince. Also due to the purpose and function of the Church is to go out to evangelize to the world the Gospel.

 

[High Fidelity]

They did indeed but those were times where conviction was righteous and not frowned upon.

Praise God that He moved through these men to bring about a dawn after a long, dark night.

 

[Fireinfolding]

It was used for a few reasons. Those of us here on earth, are in a war with this world and its prince. Also due to the purpose and function of the Church is to go out to evangelize to the world the Gospel.

The definition speaking to being combative and agressive along with typically favoring the extreme, violent or confrontational methods

Unless that was the choice of words chosen at the time of the inquisition and they just kept it or something

 

[Erose]

The definition speaking to being combative and agressive along with typically favoring the extreme, violent or confrontational methods

Unless that was the choice of words chosen at the time of the inquisition and they just kept it or something

Nope pretty ancient. It has nothing to do with the inquisition or fighting heretics. It speaks of the spiritual battle in which we all fight to overcome sin in this world. "Lord make me an instrument..."