It should be Murder?

[Hank77]

Sex education, prenatal care, STD screening, pap smears, birth control, etc.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/pregnancy/prenatal-care



So don't have publicly supported social programs but support social programs. Because, you know, that makes sense?

-CryptoLutheran

PP does not do prenatal care. All their site is doing here is explaining what to expect from prenatal care given by another health provider.
They explain ultra sounds but they don't do them. They explain amniocentesis but they don't do the testing.
They don't do mammograms either (they don't have the equipment or the radiologists on staff to read the results).
The HIV testing they do is the finger tip blood sample, which can be done at home with a kit bought at a pharmacy or online. The same test can now be done with an oral swab sample.

 

[SteveB28]

Read the thing I quoted again, lol.

Again, just like Abortion, it's yet another instance of Man trying to solve a problem that Man made, because they refuse to follow God's instructions.

Every time Man thinks he knows better than God, we end up with problems. And then Man tries to fix those problems, and ends up making a dozen more problems. And so, we have today's world full of poison, radiation, pollution, and all kinds of other problems.

Even in medicine, many medicines attempt to (but rarely succeed) cure 1 thing, but they can cause up to 10 unwanted side-effects, lol.

Yes, we were much better off sacrificing things on altars, treating diseases with pigeon blood, driving 'demons' out of the mentally ill, permitting rapists to buy their victims, killing anyone who occupied the lands we wanted. We were so much better off then, weren't we?

With an average lifespan of about 40, with most of us dying from infectious disease or from rotten teeth, with most of us living in poverty and fear for our lives, yes we were so much better off.

There were no instructions from any god. There were simply ignorant humans, making the best they could of a world they knew very little about.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Life began 3.5 billion years ago and has been an ongoing process ever since. To claim at any point in the process "this is when life starts" is to state opinion.

Well then I guess we all beat the social security system, as we're all pretty old.

 

[Hank77]

Rubbish. You forget I have lived in an era in which your barbaric suggestions were law. Many girls and women were 'dobbed in' to the authorities by nosey neighbours, uncaring family members, school authorities and, yes, by health professionals.

I lived in the era too in the US. I'd very much like to see your PROOF that MANY were reported as you say.
During that era, newborns were available for adoption because MANY young women weren't getting abortions. The state as well as the churches provided homes for unwed mothers. Girls were not allowed to attend school when they were obviously pregnant. I personally knew three girls who became pregnant in my high school. Two went to live with family members and gave their babies up for adoption. One stayed with her parents and kept her baby. All of them returned to school afterwards and all of them graduated, two went on to college. The third got married and had another baby.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Life 'began' only once. It has cycled continuously ever since.

Oh I know! When I practice for sniping abortionists with my laser slingshot I remind myself that it's not murder, it's just recycling a doctor. Like Mufasa said: the abortionist eats the corn, and the sniper recycles the abortionist, who becomes the soil, and the sniper pees on the soil, which becomes the corn. It's the circle of life! Nyeh nyeh nyeh

 

[Ed1wolf]

Ed1wolf said: ↑
No, most Christians I know are concerned about all those things.

cb: And are seeking to write them into law?

No, since we generally want smaller government, but the government could have public service announcements and discourage those things like it how it presently discourages smoking.

 

[KarateCowboy]

You can say that all you want. But some woman will terminate regardless.

That's just it: rape has been illegal for millennia, and it still happens! When are we going to learn? Rape needs to be safe, legal and rare. Pro-choice!

 

[KarateCowboy]

I lived in the era too in the US. I'd very much like to see your PROOF that MANY were reported as you say.
During that era, newborns were available for adoption because MANY young women weren't getting abortions. The state as well as the churches provided homes for unwed mothers. Girls were not allowed to attend school when they were obviously pregnant. I personally knew three girls who became pregnant in my high school. Two went to live with family members and gave their babies up for adoption. One stayed with her parents and kept her baby. All of them returned to school afterwards and all of them graduated, two went on to college. The third got married and had another baby.

TIL: disallowing pregnant girls from attending school - barbaric. Pregnant girls chopping up their own children like a body in a wood chipper - enlightened.

 

[Cearbhall]

No, since we generally want smaller government, but the government could have public service announcements and discourage those things like it how it presently discourages smoking.

Then they aren't concerned about it on the same level as clinical abortions. To be pro-life is to want to take legal action and completely ban abortions (except when only the mother or the baby can survive, though some pro-life people don't even want to allow that).

 

[Ed1wolf]

Ed1wolf said: ↑
I doubt seriously many people would involve themselves with their neighbors, my neighbors hardly speak to me and mostly hardly acknowledge my existence.

xi: So you don't think people should report all these murders?

They should if they have evidence, but not just because something looks "suspicious". If they did that, then 911 would be overwhelmed.

 

[Belk]

Well then I guess we all beat the social security system, as we're all pretty old.

Indeed. We certainly are doing better then our ancestors what with not dying in child birth.

 

[Hank77]

Most all forms of birth control are based on eliminating a fertilized egg before it implants on the wombs wall. Some even prevent the woman form allowing the implanting of the egg. The real only true birth control is the temperature method. My wife and I did not know about it until we were too old.

Shots, pills, patches all have hormones that stop ovulation from occurring, therefore there no egg that can be fertilized. However, they also thin the wall of the uterus which may not allow an egg that is fertilized (ovulation occurred despite the hormones) to implant. No one really knows how often this occurs.

 

[Hank77]

read my comment again i did not say that i considered the IUD a contraception i said that some people would debate that it is a contraception and other people would debate that the IUD was an abortion device . right now most people consider the IUD contraception and dont think much about it but i agree with you its abortion i dont think its contraception although others might consider it contraception .

Actually an IUD is shaped in such a way that it is suppose to keep sperm from entering the Fallopian tubes so that the egg cannot be fertilized. There are two types, one is hormone which also thins the wall of the uterus and may keep a fertilized egg from implanting. Again no one knows how often this may occur. So it isn't any different than the pill when it comes to the stability of the wall of the uterus.

 

[Armoured]

Please refrain from treating me like a high school student I will "look up" whatever I deem is necessary to look up and the information you demanded is not necessary. As for the scenario you are painting, that's rather over the top isn't it? I don't expect the government should launch an investigation without probable cause. As with income taxes, where the government depends upon companies to donate their services as tax collectors, I would expect that the government would use private medical practitioners as free sources of information and require doctors to report any cases of spontaneous abortions that they suspected were instead premeditated murder. Unless such a report was made the presumption of innocence would , unlike with the IRS , apply. Remember the OP has made it a given that this hypothetical situation involves abortion being murder. That being the case, it would be treated as any other murder. The government does not conduct surveillance of every citizen 24/7 to assure itself that no one is committing murder on the sly. It does not keep constant tabs on spouse because a percentage of spouses murders their spouse why would they do so for pregnant women? Just so you could pretend that they would have to and therefore would be unable to prosecute the law?Since there is supposed to be a presumption of innocence, I see no reason why pregnancy would change the way murder investigations were conducted. Unless some probable cause to suspect a women of murder rather than spontaneous abortion were to come to light there would not be anything more needed than the initial doctor's report of a spontaneous abortion. Additionally, if the government were for some reason to decide to go overboard to the ridiculous degree you propose, could they not move the resources used on the war on drugs to homicide investigation or go further into debt ? Surely murder is a much more serious offense than possession and stopping murder is much more important than things like bailing out large corporations,giving tax breaks to crony capitalists or perhaps even slightly more important than providing Obamaphones?

Well you tell me what's over the top? First you want abortion to be murder, but then you don't want to investigate potential abortion cases. Seems like trying to have your cake and eat it, too.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Of course the heretic lutheran would be the one supporting the murder of babies.

Out of pure morbid curiosity are you trying to say I'm a heretical Lutheran or that Lutherans are heretics? I mean, either way, it's false. But you have my curiosity. I mean, sure, I'm handing you a shovel so you can dig your own hole, but still.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ICX]

Out of pure morbid curiosity are you trying to say I'm a heretical Lutheran or that Lutherans are heretics? I mean, either way, it's false. But you have my curiosity. I mean, sure, I'm handing you a shovel so you can dig your own hole, but still.

-CryptoLutheran

I think Lutherans are the ones most likely to succumb to degeneracy and ""heresy"". I believe you not to be a true christian since you have been defending baby murders. Martin luther was a great guy.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think Lutherans are the ones most likely to succumb to degeneracy and ""heresy"".

Well, I mean, seeing as you've presented such a well constructed argument, who am I to argue.

I believe you not to be a true christian since you have been defending baby murders.

Between the two of us the only one who has advocated for murder is you.

Martin luther was a great guy.

A good theologian, but if you knew much about Dr. Luther you'd know he had quite a few serious character flaws. A "great guy" isn't particularly what I'd call him. But then that's the thing about us Lutherans, we recognize the peculiar paradox that Christians are simul iustus et peccator and that one's justification and salvation aren't based upon an individual's moral efforts but upon the gracious kindness of the God who meets sinners in their despair and wretchedness.

To be completely frank, if you are going to present yourself as emblematic of what a "true Christian" looks like then you can count me out. I'd much rather be a faulty, broken, mess of a Christian whose hope is found in the crucified and risen Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JackRT]

I think Lutherans are the ones most likely to succumb to degeneracy and ""heresy"". I believe you not to be a true christian since you have been defending baby murders. Martin luther was a great guy.

No one here on this long thread has defended baby murder.

 

[Goonie]

Yes, we were much better off sacrificing things on altars, treating diseases with pigeon blood, driving 'demons' out of the mentally ill, permitting rapists to buy their victims, killing anyone who occupied the lands we wanted. We were so much better off then, weren't we?

With an average lifespan of about 40, with most of us dying from infectious disease or from rotten teeth, with most of us living in poverty and fear for our lives, yes we were so much better off.

There were no instructions from any god. There were simply ignorant humans, making the best they could of a world they knew very little about.

What you mean pigeon blood doesn't work! Mutley release the pigeon, bother decades of chasing that pigeon down the pan.

 

[jenny1972]

No one here on this long thread has defended baby murder.

a fetus is a young baby .