It should be Murder?

[Ed1wolf]

Indeed. It seems to me that most pro-life people are only interested in getting rid of clinical abortions, without thinking about back-alley abortions or the other actions that sometimes lead to the termination of a pregnancy. Shouldn't they be just as concerned about drinking alcohol during pregnancy, or partaking in rigorous or risky physical activity?

No, most Christians I know are concerned about all those things.

 

[ximmix]

Great topic, I wonder if pro lifers have really considered the implications if they get their way. When is it murder, when is it normal miscarriage, when is it safe abortion..? But I'm sure the US (If that's what we're talking about) courts will be swamped by neighbours accusing women for being pregnant and suddenly not. Worked very well in the 1600s so why not try it again..?

 

[Cearbhall]

No, most Christians I know are concerned about all those things.

And are seeking to write them into law?

 

[SteveB28]

ok then i guess IUD's should be illegal as well and should be considered early abortion and not contraception i was on the fence about it

So answer my question please. If a woman is found to have an IUD fitted, you would have her arrested for attempted murder, correct?

 

[SteveB28]

It is not what is legal or commonly accepted that makes something a right. Because something is right in our own eyes does not make it right.

Actually, that's exactly what it means! What is 'right' are those things about which a society has come to a consensus over.

Our Constitution says as much, but we do not even honor our own history, or our own advancements and contributions to the civilized world. There is more to looking around than looking around. We must also learn from history, which, apparently, we have not.

Your history clearly shows that a woman's right to determine her own reproductive outcomes has always been supported by a majority of your community. Show me the period in which the converse was the case.

 

[SteveB28]

ok then let it be investigated to see if a formal investigation is necessary whats your objection ?

My objection? Why do you ask if I would have an objection? Why not ask the thousands and thousands of women who annually suffer the disappointment and pain of a miscarriage how they would feel about having that pain increased by the police coming to call?!

 

[SteveB28]

Great topic, I wonder if pro lifers have really considered the implications if they get their way. When is it murder, when is it normal miscarriage, when is it safe abortion..? But I'm sure the US (If that's what we're talking about) courts will be swamped by neighbours accusing women for being pregnant and suddenly not. Worked very well in the 1600s so why not try it again..?

21st Century witch hunts. Sounds appealing doesn't it?

 

[Ed1wolf]

Doubt you'll find legitimate consideration for that question.
The sector of society that believes abortion is murder have in their number those who murder abortion providers in the name of pro-life.
It should be no one's business but the woman who has to make the choice. But that's not the society we live in today.
Meanwhile, there are 423,773 children in the U.S. foster care system; 114,556 of these children are available for adoption.

Maybe those who think abortion is murder should start adopting one of the 114, 556 born children looking for a family after their mothers demonstrated they were pro-choice. Having chosen to have the child but not choosing to raise the child.

It's easy to command others to obey one's opinion. It's harder to walk the talk about being proactively in favor of life and then giving a life to a child in the foster care system.

Actually there have only been 2 or 3 Christians who have murdered abortion providers. The most notorious abortion provider murderer, Eric Rudolph, was actually an atheist. There are many Christian adoption agencies and groups that help unwed single mothers, one excellent one is Bethany Christian Services. But there are many others all over the country and the world.

 

[Ed1wolf]

Great topic, I wonder if pro lifers have really considered the implications if they get their way. When is it murder, when is it normal miscarriage, when is it safe abortion..? But I'm sure the US (If that's what we're talking about) courts will be swamped by neighbours accusing women for being pregnant and suddenly not. Worked very well in the 1600s so why not try it again..?

I doubt seriously many people would involve themselves with their neighbors, my neighbors hardly speak to me and mostly hardly acknowledge my existence.

 

[ximmix]

I doubt seriously many people would involve themselves with their neighbors, my neighbors hardly speak to me and mostly hardly acknowledge my existence.

So you don't think people should report all these murders..?

 

[dogs4thewin]

But she would still be under suspicion of murder...

and it would be on the state to prove and frankly a jury to decide. Sometimes juries will not convict even if someone IS guilty if they feel that law is unjust. For matter sometimes judges will refuse to sentence ( rarer).

 

[Blondepudding]

Actually there have only been 2 or 3 Christians who have murdered abortion providers. The most notorious abortion provider murderer, Eric Rudolph, was actually an atheist. There are many Christian adoption agencies and groups that help unwed single mothers, one excellent one is Bethany Christian Services. But there are many others all over the country and the world.

You're not familiar with the group, Army of God?
Paul Jennings Hill, Scott Roeder and James Charles Kopp, were all Christian terrorists who murdered abortion doctors.

Randall and Cheryl Deann Sullenger were convicted Christian's who plotted to blow up the Alavarado Medical Center.And if I'm not mistaken that medical center was located in a building occupied by other businesses that would have suffered from the blast.

Anti-abortion domestic terrorism occurs with more than just a few people involved.


The history of anti-abortion terrorism in the United States

By Mary Emily O'Hara

Nov 28, 2015,


....To help put the Colorado Springs shooting in context, we've compiled a history of anti-abortion domestic terrorism over the past 10 years, with an additional section highlighting all of the murders and attempted murders of women's health clinic staff. This list is not exhaustive and may not contain every incident.

In addition, the number of incidents—which peaked with several deaths in the 1990s— greatly reduced after the passaged of the FACE (Freedom of Access to Clinics) Act in 1994 and the creation of the National Task Force on Violence Against Health Care Providers in 1998.

Deaths and attempted murders

• 2015: Garrett Swasey, police officer, and two as-yet unidentified people shot and killed in Colorado Springs, Colorado.
• 2009: Dr. George Tiller shot and killed in Wichita, Kansas.
• 1998: Dr. Barnet Slepian shot and killed in Amherst, New York.
• 1998: Robert Sanderson, off-duty police officer working as clinic security guard, killed in clinic bombing in Birmingham, Alabama.
• 1994: Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, clinic receptionists, shot and killed in Brookline, Massachusetts.
• 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, shot and killed in Pensacola, Florida.
• 1993: Dr. David Gunn, shot and killed

Other acts of terrorism

• Oct. 22, 2015: Planned Parenthood clinic in Claremont, New Hampshire vandalized and flooded, damaging office equipment and the building.
• Sept. 2015: Planned Parenthood clinic set on fire twice in one month in Thousand Oaks, California.
• Sept. 4, 2015: Planned Parenthood clinic in Pullman, Washington set on fire.
• April 11, 2013: Planned Parenthood clinic in Bloomington, Indiana vandalized with an axe.
• May 2012: Atlanta Gynecology and Obstetrics in Atlanta, Georgia and Alpha OB/GYN in Marietta, Georgia both set on fire in the same week.
• April 1, 2012: Planned Parenthood clinic in Grand Chute, Wisconsin bombed.
• Jan. 1, 2012: American Family Planning Clinic in Pensacola, Florida bombed.
• July 2011: Planned Parenthood clinic in McKinney, Texas that does not provide abortions firebombed.
• May 2011: A Wisconsin man was arrested after confessing his plan to shoot the staff at a Planned Parenthood clinic the next day.
• Jan. 22, 2009: Man intentionally drove an SUV into the front of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.
• Dec. 6, 2007: Dr. Curtis Boyd's abortion clinic in Albuquerque, New Mexico set on fire.
• May 9, 2007: Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia set on fire.
• April 25, 2007: Austin Women's Health Center evacuated after a man plants a nail bomb with explosives on site: Austin, Texas.
• Sept. 2006: A man crashed his car into Edgerton Women's Care Center and set the lobby intentionally on fire, falsely believing it was an abortion clinic: Davenport, Iowa.
• Dec. 12, 2005: Attempted firebombing of Hope Medical Group in Shreveport, Louisiana.
• July 4, 2005: Presidential Women's Center target of arson attack in West Palm Beach, Florida.

 

[Tree of Life]

I see many here who would wish to deny a woman the right to terminate a pregnancy, by declaring that it would be an act of murder.

And yet I also see those same people running away from this question:

How would such a law be enforced?

For one, it would be much more difficult to get an abortion. It would not be legally possible to get an abortion for any reason whatsoever as it is now.

 

[Tree of Life]

For example, if it is reported to the authorities that a woman who was known to be pregnant is no longer so, how should they proceed?

It might well be impossible for authorities to do anything with a claim like this. But it is totally within reason and practicality to make abortion clinics illegal and the medical practice of abortion illegal except in certain unique cases. As it is now it's just too easy to get an abortion.

 

[SteveB28]

For one, it would be much more difficult to get an abortion. It would not be legally possible to get an abortion for any reason whatsoever as it is now.

What does any of that have to do with the question:

How would the law be enforced?

 

[SteveB28]

It might well be impossible for authorities to do anything with a claim like this. But it is totally within reason and practicality to make abortion clinics illegal and the medical practice of abortion illegal except in certain unique cases. As it is now it's just too easy to get an abortion.

You're showing yourself to be quite adept at not answering the question. Congratulations.

 

[Tree of Life]

What does any of that have to do with the question:

How would the law be enforced?

Abortion clinics and medical clinics that practice abortion would be shut down.
Doctors who continue to practice abortion would be arrested and tried.

 

[Tree of Life]

You're showing yourself to be quite adept at not answering the question. Congratulations.

Why do you feel it's necessary to be a jerk? You start a thread and then when somebody is kind enough to respond to your topic you disrespect them with patronizing language.

 

[ewq1938]

I see many here who would wish to deny a woman the right to terminate a pregnancy, by declaring that it would be an act of murder.

And yet I also see those same people running away from this question:

How would such a law be enforced?

Like any criminal case involving murder.

 

[SteveB28]

Abortion clinics and medical clinics that practice abortion would be shut down.
Doctors who continue to practice abortion would be arrested and tried.

You are stating the obvious. This will not prevent women from securing abortions in one way or another. Nor does it give an explanation as to how it would be determined that a woman had miscarried or had arranged an abortion.