Paul's limited understanding!

[HebrewVaquero]

Excuse me??? Your denomination's practices are substantially divergent from historic Christianity. With as much respect as is possible under the circumstances, I don't think a Messianic should lecture others about "doctrines of men".

Yes, we have been divergent from historic Christianity clear back to 325AD and proud of it.
We have survived despite the torture and murder of our people by the self proclaimed orthodox.

 

[Righttruth]

They had one disagreement. John Mark had left them in the past so Paul didn't want to rely on him again. Barnabus, who I'm sure loved and felt a family obligation to his sister's son John Mark, did want to bring him along. Neither man could change their minds and so the parted ways, Barnabus and Mark, Paul and Silas. They went different directions checking on the churches already established and preaching. There is no indication that they parted enemies or that one would go to the Jews and one to the Gentiles. So I'm not sure just what you are referring.

Paul, if he had known the essence of Jesus' teaching, would have given Mark another chance! After all, we know that Jesus is always there to give us another opportunity if we failed. Look at what Mark achieved in writing the first Gospel! Paul wants him for help when others desert him! What an irony!

Why would you even consider Paul at all if you believe him to be a liar?

With the help of the Holy Spirit one can make out where he deviates from the Gospel. He had his vices too: one being egoism being a scholar! Hence, he was troubled by Satan!

He didn't. Everywhere he went his first preaching was at the Jewish synagogues. They beat him so badly one time that they left him in a ditch for dead having thrown him out of the city, the disciples prayed for him and he got up and went back into the city. Some chicken.
Act 17:1 And having passed through Amphipolis, and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was the synagogue of the Jews,
Act 17:2 and according to the custom of Paul, he went in unto them, and for three sabbaths he was reasoning with them from the Writings,
Act 17:10 And the brethren immediately, through the night, sent forth both Paul and Silas to Berea, who having come, went to the synagogue of the Jews;

Act 14:19 And there came thither, from Antioch and Iconium, Jews, and they having persuaded the multitudes, and having stoned Paul, drew him outside of the city, having supposed him to be dead;
Act 14:20 and the disciples having surrounded him, having risen he entered into the city, and on the morrow he went forth with Barnabas to Derbe.

Are you just throwing spaghetti at a wall to see what sticks? Maybe I misunderstood you?

Why did he give up reaching them afterwards? Easy way out?

Rom 9:1 Truth I say in Christ, I lie not, my conscience bearing testimony with me in the Holy Spirit,
Rom 9:2 that I have great grief and unceasing pain in my heart--
Rom 9:3 for I was wishing, I myself, to be anathema from the Christ--for my brethren, my kindred, according to the flesh,
Rom 9:4 who are Israelites, whose is the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the lawgiving, and the service, and the promises,
Rom 9:5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed to the ages. Amen.

Self-claims have no value when seeking truth.

 

[Wgw]

Corruption starts very early! Ungodly Gentiles grabbed the compromise formulas offered by Paul right from the beginning! No doubt Paul felt at home with them!

Try proving that in the specific case of the St. Thomas Christians of India. Seriously, try. I expect articles from major scholars, and a review of the relevant Syriac and Malayalam texts.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Yes, we have been divergent from historic Christianity clear back to 325AD and proud of it.
We have survived despite the torture and murder of our people by the self proclaimed orthodox.

I see. Who are some of the major figures in your denomination's history between 325 and the 1970's? What are some major volumes originating from your denomination after 325 and before the 1970's? In which areas/countries did the denomination flourish most notably between 325 and the 1970's?

 

[HebrewVaquero]

I see. Who are some of the major figures in your denomination's history between 325 and the 1970's? What are some major volumes originating from your denomination after 325 and before the 1970's? In which areas/countries did the denomination flourish most notably between 325 and the 1970's?

What is listed on my avatar isn't my "denomination", it is just the closest one to choose from on the list.

 

[Jack Terrence]

You are way off the subsequent developments and responsibilities entrusted to His apostles after crucifixion and ascension. You are making a fundamental mistake in adding the word 'Jews' in the Great Commission! Why did Paul confine only to Gentiles? Did he chicken out from his responsibility conveniently?

The context of the gospel narratives requires that the term " all nations" be restricted to all the nations where the Jews lived. Your definitions are both biblically and historically inaccurate. See also Acts 2. It says that Jews from "all nations under heaven" had heard the word preached on Pentecost. Their mandate was to reach Jews from all nations. This was the great commission to them.

Jesus EXPLICITLY told them to NOT go to the gentiles. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles and to kings and to the house of Israel. Paul had a greater scope of authority than the other apostles.

 

[Strong in Him]

Claiming one for Jews and another for Gentiles is not the commandment of Jesus. That was Paul's invention! You seem to have missed the point that they parted company with heated arguments. There is only one God and one Son. Division is a sign of satanic work!

They had a disagreement and split up to go their separate ways for a while, but seemed to reconcile later. In 1 Corinthians 9:6 Paul says, "or is it only I and Barnabas who must work for a living?" Their disagreement was not over doctrine, theology or the work of Christ, but only over who should accompany them on a particular journey.

People disagree sometimes.
You started this thread which is in the controversial theology section of the forum. Either you deliberately started it in this forum, or it was moved there because the things in the OP are controversial. Something which is controversial is bound to cause disagreement and division - is this thread therefore a work of Satan too.

Writings don't include everything. That is why Jesus sent the Holy Spirit. He will always remind us of His teaching. Jesus never said to rely on bunch of selected writings to know His way, life and truth.

Yes, Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Jesus is revealed in the Bible - foretold in the Old Testament, presented in the Gospels, taught, proclaimed and explained in the epistles.

Canon is man-made.

Inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I always consider Paul's writings when they complement the Gospel. His assumptions are ignored. John calls all those who self-claim as apostles as liars in Revelation.

Paul preaches the Gospel so that is a good reason to listen to, and trust, him.
Paul was accepted as an apostle. There is no Scriptural evidence that Peter said, "here, Paul, you can be called an apostle"; neither is there any evidence that Paul said, "I think I deserve, and am going to assume, the title of apostle." So as I see it, you can only be assuming that he appointed himself to be one - i.e "Paul calls himself an apostle, there is no record of him being made one so he must have self-appointed."
You've just said that you ignore assumptions.

Now Tom, Dick and Harry claim that their interpretations, sayings and writings are inspired by the Holy Spirit!

They may be, but they are not Holy Scripture; nothing can be added to, or taken from, Holy Scripture.

! We judge them by their fruits.

Judge Paul by his fruits then - major writer of NT books; hundreds, if not thousands, of lives changed as a result of his writings.

 

[Wgw]

Yes, we have been divergent from historic Christianity clear back to 325AD and proud of it.
We have survived despite the torture and murder of our people by the self proclaimed orthodox.

I should be greatly interested if you could identify who you mean by "we."

 

[HebrewVaquero]

I should be greatly interested if you could identify who you mean by "we."

Look around you, the "We" are here, the very ones you have issue with as your orthodox forefathers before you.

 

[Wgw]

Look around you, the "We" are here, the very ones you have issue with as your orthodox forefathers before you.

I see only one of you, and no evidence of continuity between your faith and that of anyone circa 325 AD.

 

[HebrewVaquero]

I see only one of you, and no evidence of continuity between your faith and that of anyone circa 325 AD.

Apparently you aren't looking around, I see a number of them in the controversial theology section.

It is sad to see the belief we are to still keep God's instructions is regulated to the "controversial" theology section.

 

[Hank77]

Paul, if he had known the essence of Jesus' teaching, would have given Mark another chance! After all, we know that Jesus is always there to give us another opportunity if we failed.

Yes, but are those second chances always identical to the first chance? Are they in the same place, at the same time, with the same people, etc.?
If I remember correctly Paul and Silas were thrown in prison on this journey. God may not have wanted Mark with Paul in this situation, he was young and needed to grow. He got this opportunity with Barnabas.

Paul wants him for help when others desert him!

Yes, Paul asks Timothy to bring Mark with him when he came. We see a mature Mark grounded in faith and strength. I'm not sure why you would think that Paul was desperate when he had Luke and Timothy, rather his asking for Mark as well was a sign of his admiration for Mark. That Mark had grown so much that he would be qualified to minister to Paul would be like Newton asking a graduate student to share in a new project because he had something important to offer.

Why did he give up reaching them afterwards? Easy way out?

What scripture tells you that he gave up on reaching them?

 

[Wgw]

Apparently you aren't looking around, I see a number of them in the controversial theology section.

It is sad to see the belief we are to still keep God's instructions is regulated to the "controversial" theology section.

Given the variance between the beliefs of each individual member of CT, this is somewhat of a non-point. I know of no two non-Trinitarian active participants in CT who have entirely congrous belief systems.

Furthermore, there is no historic continuity between what you profess to believe and that of any group known to have existed from roughly the seventh century until...recent decades. Your beliefs are reminiscent of the Ebionites, but they rejected texts you apparently accept and had their own alternative gospel.

 

[HebrewVaquero]

Given the variance between the beliefs of each individual member of CT, this is somewhat of a non-point. I know of no two non-Trinitarian active participants in CT who have entirely congrous belief systems.

Furthermore, there is no historic continuity between what you profess to believe and that of any group known to have existed from roughly the seventh century until...recent decades. Your beliefs are reminiscent of the Ebionites, but they rejected texts you apparently accept and had their own alternative gospel.

Sure you don't see them, your Orential Orthodox conditioning allows you to see only other Orthodox groups such as the Roman, Greek and Coptic, sure you are able to recognize splinter groups such as the Protestants. However everyone else are heretics of the present or similar to a heretic foul of the past.

The real Body of Christ Believers have always been here, most of history shows them persecuted by the World and the Orthodox Church.

Lucky for us you do not the Civil Authoriy backing the Orthodox Church to wipe out heretics.
But,
Sadly,
The time is coming when you will and it will be the separation of the Saints from the aint's.

 

[Wgw]

Sure you don't see them, your Orential Orthodox conditioning

LOL. I am a convert into a church where the priest barely spoke English, and had to take my word for it that I had indeoendently researched Syriac Orthodocy enough to agree with it.

allows you to see only other Orthodox groups such as the Roman, Greek and Coptic,

LOL.

sure you are able to recognize splinter groups such as the Protestants. However everyone else are heretics of the present or similar to a heretic foul of the past.

They are if they teach another Gospel contrary to Galatians 1:8.

The real Body of Christ Believers have always been here, most of history shows them persecuted by the World and the Orthodox Church.

This alas is basically wishful thinking unsupported by historical evidence.

Lucky for us you do not the Civil Authoriy backing the Orthodox Church to wipe out heretics.

The Syriac Orthodox Church has never conspired with any civil authority to "wipe out heretics." Rather the reverse has been the rule, since 451 AD. Which you would know had you done your homework.

But,
Sadly,
The time is coming when you will and it will be the separation of the Saints from the aint's.

The thought of HH Mor Ignatius Aphrem II Karim leading a grand army of Syriac fanatics on a crusade against all heretics is too funny for words. I will consider us lucky if we are not entirely eradicated from Iraq, Syria and other middle Eastern lands by Islamist extremists.

 

[thecolorsblend]

What is listed on my avatar isn't my "denomination", it is just the closest one to choose from on the list.

Okay. My questions stand:

I see. Who are some of the major figures in your denomination's history between 325 and the 1970's? What are some major volumes originating from your denomination after 325 and before the 1970's? In which areas/countries did the denomination flourish most notably between 325 and the 1970's?

 

[HebrewVaquero]

Okay. My questions stand:

Read 'Foxes Book of Martyrs' for people killed by the Orthodox Church for wanting Scriptures in English. Read about people who kept the seventh day after 381AD when the Orthodox Church in league with the Roman Empire outlawed honoring the seventh day.

Any amount of studying on the subject shows the fierce persecution of those deemed unorthodox by the Church.

And you pretend it never happened?
I suppose next you will want us to believe the Holocaust never happened.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Read 'Foxes Book of Martyrs' for people killed by the Orthodox Church for wanting Scriptures in English. Read about people who kept the seventh day after 381AD when the Orthodox Church in league with the Roman Empire outlawed honoring the seventh day.

Any amount of studying on the subject shows the fierce persecution of those deemed unorthodox by the Church.

And you pretend it never happened?

So every single martyr listed in that book was your type of untraditional Christian? Interesting.

As to the rest of my questions, I've reproduced them further below for your convenience.

I suppose next you will want us to believe the Holocaust never happened.

Oh boy...

I see. Who are some of the major figures in your denomination's history between 325 and the 1970's? What are some major volumes originating from your denomination after 325 and before the 1970's? In which areas/countries did the denomination flourish most notably between 325 and the 1970's?

 

[HebrewVaquero]

So every single martyr listed in that book was your type of untraditional Christian? Interesting.

As to the rest of my questions, I've reproduced them further below for your convenience.

Oh boy...

History shows the Church persecuting those who they deemed untraditional, heretics and some hetrodox.
The point is;
It doesn't matter if they believed like me,
it is that they believed contrary to the Church.
And this Church did to them what the Jewish Leaders did to Jesus.
History repeats itself.

 

[thecolorsblend]

History shows the Church persecuting those who they deemed untraditional, heretics and some hetrodox.
The point is;
It doesn't matter if they believed like me,
it is that they believed contrary to the Church.
And this Church did to them what the Jewish Leaders did to Jesus.
History repeats itself.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe you're just wrong?