• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Ignoring The Evidence : Why Are You Not An Evolutionist?

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟46,103.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married
The laws of physics underlie all of the concepts discussed in this forum, claims of "goddidit" notwithstanding.
Do you have a question related to creationism or evolution?
Are you afraid that your worldview will implode if you provide a simple yes or no to this question? What is the worst that can happen? ^_^

You are still not clear. Are Newtonian physics a scientific truth?
 
Upvote 0

farout

Standing firm for Christ
Nov 23, 2015
1,814
854
Mid West of the good USA
✟29,048.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I started a perfectly good thread entitled: Why Are You An Evolutionist? and by page 7 it had been hijacked by something I see in everyday life. People who ignore the evidence. (refer post 123)

In legal proceedings the object is to present evidence and in the case of Evolution the evidence in favor of it is already piled to the ceiling.

I am not a biologist but I do love the good old fashioned who-dun-nit.

So let's try this in reverse: Why Are You Not An Evolutionist?

(please let's not start with an argument about whether the word 'evolutionist' is relevant, as Richard Dawkins, Stephen Gould (rip) and others have used the name to describe themselves)


The Bible does not agree with evolution. God used a literal six days. The bible has existed so much longer that this new religion of evolution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AV1611VET
Upvote 0

roasthawg

Newbie
Dec 4, 2014
22
5
✟22,672.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The case for a creator is the book that has done the most to lead me to where I currently am which is not believing in evolution. The bible on the other hand has not stopped me from believing in evolution. Genesis and evolution could coexist just fine as far as I can tell. Maybe Adam was the first man to have a spirit in him? He was formed by God out of the dirt whether that creation process took millions of years of evolution or a split second. The use of the term day in Genesis doesn't seem to effect anything here either as a thousand years are like a day and a day like a thousand years to the Lord. Now Eve being made from one of Adam's ribs is problematic for me if I were to believe that evolution was the creation tool used by God but could be that I'm misinterpreting the verse.

That being said I still think modern science has it all wrong when it comes to evolution. So much of it doesn't make sense. It surely makes a lot more sense to atheists as they don't have any better alternatives at their disposal. But for someone like myself who believes that the Lord is the author of all creation then there are plenty of better alternatives.

On a side note, I find the evolution of the universe to be a much more vexing subject to atheists. How do you get something out of nothing? Haven't heard many coherent answers for that one yet.
 
Upvote 0

farout

Standing firm for Christ
Nov 23, 2015
1,814
854
Mid West of the good USA
✟29,048.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The case for a creator is the book that has done the most to lead me to where I currently am which is not believing in evolution. The bible on the other hand has not stopped me from believing in evolution. Genesis and evolution could coexist just fine as far as I can tell. Maybe Adam was the first man to have a spirit in him? He was formed by God out of the dirt whether that creation process took millions of years of evolution or a split second. The use of the term day in Genesis doesn't seem to effect anything here either as a thousand years are like a day and a day like a thousand years to the Lord. Now Eve being made from one of Adam's ribs is problematic for me if I were to believe that evolution was the creation tool used by God but could be that I'm misinterpreting the verse.

That being said I still think modern science has it all wrong when it comes to evolution. So much of it doesn't make sense. It surely makes a lot more sense to atheists as they don't have any better alternatives at their disposal. But for someone like myself who believes that the Lord is the author of all creation then there are plenty of better alternatives.

On a side note, I find the evolution of the universe to be a much more vexing subject to atheists. How do you get something out of nothing? Haven't heard many coherent answers for that one yet.


Its a great book. May I suggest Answers in Genesis. It is impossible for life to continue for very long periods (thousands of years) of darkness or light. So the Creator with being all powerful has no problems speaking anything into existence. Our mind can't possibly grasp such a awesome Creator. What does not fit in our reason does not make it impossible. Remember we walk by faith. One of my favorite verses goes like this. I do believe, help me with my unbelief. Oh how many times I have said this to Jesus. Faith is hard. Prayer for me is a supreme act of faith. How does God here my so insignificant pleas for forgiveness or my cry's for help? I honestly don't know. I walk, pray, and live, and trust in Jesus by FAITH> It is not easy. But neither was Jesus dying for my sins on the cross. I just can hardly take it all in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: roasthawg
Upvote 0

justlookinla

Regular Member
Mar 31, 2014
11,767
199
✟35,675.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The laws of physics underlie all of the concepts discussed in this forum, claims of "goddidit" notwithstanding.

Stick with the unscientific claims of 'willy-nillydunit' in the creation of humanity from an unknown single life form of long ago. That would be within the topic of the forum. Just a hint...walls of cartoons does not equate to discussion.

Are you afraid that your worldview will implode if you provide a simple yes or no to this question? What is the worst that can happen? ^_^

You are still not clear. Are Newtonian physics a scientific truth?

What's the worse that can happen if you actually stay on the topic of the room?
 
Upvote 0

Black Dog

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2015
1,696
573
65
✟4,870.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
The Bible does not agree with evolution. God used a literal six days. The bible has existed so much longer that this new religion of evolution.
And the Flat Earth theory has existed far longer than both of the above. Does that make it true?

And evolution is not a religion, regardless of how you personally feel about it.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
It's a problem when one is led to believe that the 'how' of Darwinist evolution is based on the scientific method, when it's not. Why would one behave in such a misleading manner?

Alright, Justlookkinla, following your suggestion, here is quote from you that I wish to respond to. It appears to me you are being rather arrogant and accusing evolution scientists of somehow deceiving you. See, the problem I have with such statements is that they appear way, way off base. Your are pointing the finger at a highly respectable, highly educated group of men and women, and , for no specified reason, claim they somehow are misleading you. Then you talk about the "scientific method." I didn't se any evidence here that you even begin to know what that really entails. Next, you keep harping on the"how" of evolution. It appears you think evolution is all washed up because, according to your personal definition of the scientific method, , the "how" has to be explained or else the whole idea of evolution or any other "scientific truth" should be thrown out as false. But, see, that is not the way true science operates. I mean, maybe in your own peculiar definition, but certainly not that held by the real world of science. Look, as I may have mentioned Newton had no real idea how gravity really works, and neither did anyone else at the time, and so Newton skid just do the math, period. Up to the 20th century no one was sure how it worked. And even after Einstein, we are still not sure. Getting back to Darwin, he did in fact give a very solid scientific case that natural selection is one major factor in how it works. And this definitely has ben born out my numerous studies. OK, true, Darwin himself admitted that he really didn't the whole story on how evolution works. Next step, along came another group of scientists, bringing in hard data from genetics. Hence, genetics is another part of how it works.

You also harp on your notion that evolution, specially the "how," has never been directly observed. Well, isn't there some solid research backing the idea that you can turn a fox into a dog, showing that foxes can be bread in such a way that they increasingly are showing more and more dog features? I can refer you to more than one solid scientific paper on research showing that a whole new species of bacteria can be created under the right conditions? Aren't lions and tigers separate species, and can it not be shown by mating that they produce a new species? Aren't horses and donkeys separate species, a mule?

I have seen you and others here admit that micro-evolution does happen and can be observed. OK, what that tells me is that macro-evolution is a definite go. I mean, what sense does it make for anyone to assign some barrier or arbitrary stopping point beyond which these evolutionary processes cannot go? If science sees some law working in one area, it is automatically assumed to work in every other. The laws of physics do not stop at you stove. And I think it equally irrational to assume evolution stops at some arbitrary boundary between the species.
 
Upvote 0

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟46,103.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married
Stick with the unscientific claims of 'willy-nillydunit' in the creation of humanity from an unknown single life form of long ago. That would be within the topic of the forum. Just a hint...walls of cartoons does not equate to discussion.
How many images have I posted in this thread, outside of my sig? Give me a count.
What's the worse that can happen if you actually stay on the topic of the room?
You are worried. That's cute.:)

Again: You are still not clear. Are Newtonian physics a scientific truth?

Are you afraid that your answer will undermine several thousand of your posts made in this forum?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Black Dog
Upvote 0

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟46,103.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

justlookinla

Regular Member
Mar 31, 2014
11,767
199
✟35,675.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It's a problem when one is led to believe that the 'how' of Darwinist evolution is based on the scientific method, when it's not. Why would one behave in such a misleading manner?

Alright, Justlookkinla, following your suggestion, here is quote from you that I wish to respond to. It appears to me you are being rather arrogant and accusing evolution scientists of somehow deceiving you. See, the problem I have with such statements is that they appear way, way off base. Your are pointing the finger at a highly respectable, highly educated group of men and women, and , for no specified reason, claim they somehow are misleading you. Then you talk about the "scientific method." I didn't se any evidence here that you even begin to know what that really entails. Next, you keep harping on the"how" of evolution. It appears you think evolution is all washed up because, according to your personal definition of the scientific method, , the "how" has to be explained or else the whole idea of evolution or any other "scientific truth" should be thrown out as false. But, see, that is not the way true science operates. I mean, maybe in your own peculiar definition, but certainly not that held by the real world of science. Look, as I may have mentioned Newton had no real idea how gravity really works, and neither did anyone else at the time, and so Newton skid just do the math, period. Up to the 20th century no one was sure how it worked. And even after Einstein, we are still not sure. Getting back to Darwin, he did in fact give a very solid scientific case that natural selection is one major factor in how it works. And this definitely has ben born out my numerous studies. OK, true, Darwin himself admitted that he really didn't the whole story on how evolution works. Next step, along came another group of scientists, bringing in hard data from genetics. Hence, genetics is another part of how it works.

You also harp on your notion that evolution, specially the "how," has never been directly observed. Well, isn't there some solid research backing the idea that you can turn a fox into a dog, showing that foxes can be bread in such a way that they increasingly are showing more and more dog features? I can refer you to more than one solid scientific paper on research showing that a whole new species of bacteria can be created under the right conditions? Aren't lions and tigers separate species, and can it not be shown by mating that they produce a new species? Aren't horses and donkeys separate species, a mule?

I have seen you and others here admit that micro-evolution does happen and can be observed. OK, what that tells me is that macro-evolution is a definite go. I mean, what sense does it make for anyone to assign some barrier or arbitrary stopping point beyond which these evolutionary processes cannot go? If science sees some law working in one area, it is automatically assumed to work in every other. The laws of physics do not stop at you stove. And I think it equally irrational to assume evolution stops at some arbitrary boundary between the species.

Thanks for the response. Now, do you actually have evidence, based on the scientific method, for the 'how' of Darwinist evolution?
 
Upvote 0

justlookinla

Regular Member
Mar 31, 2014
11,767
199
✟35,675.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
How many images have I posted in this thread, outside of my sig? Give me a count.

A couple of posts back it was nothing but a wall of cartoons.

You are worried. That's cute.:)

Worried enough to ask you to stay on the topic of the room? Could it be you're worried enough to not wish to say on topic of the room?

Again: You are still not clear. Are Newtonian physics a scientific truth?

Are you afraid that your answer will undermine several thousand of your posts made in this forum?

Stick with the topic of the room. It's nothing to fear.
 
Upvote 0

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟46,103.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married
A couple of posts back it was nothing but a wall of cartoons.
How many?
Worried enough to ask you to stay on the topic of the room? Could it be you're worried enough to not wish to say on topic of the room?
I am on topic, which will become clear upon you directly answering the question.
Stick with the topic of the room. It's nothing to fear.
Excellent.

Then you can answer the question: Are Newtonian physics a scientific truth?
 
Upvote 0

justlookinla

Regular Member
Mar 31, 2014
11,767
199
✟35,675.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
How many?

Post #619. While you may admire your wittyness, it doesn't contribute to discussion.

I am on topic, which will become clear upon you directly answering the question.

Excellent.

Then you can answer the question: Are Newtonian physics a scientific truth?

You can actually explain how this is related to creation and evolution if you wish to discuss it.
 
Upvote 0

farout

Standing firm for Christ
Nov 23, 2015
1,814
854
Mid West of the good USA
✟29,048.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
And the Flat Earth theory has existed far longer than both of the above. Does that make it true?

And evolution is not a religion, regardless of how you personally feel about it.


On the contrary, the Bible has always stated the Earth was not flat. Where did you get that idea? All too often rumors are stated with no proof to even give the slightest idea where they came from.
 
Upvote 0

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟46,103.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married
Post #619. While you may admire your wittyness, it doesn't contribute to discussion.
You said, "nothing but a wall of cartoons." That was one image. Did your mother not tell you not to exaggerate?
You can actually explain how this is related to creation and evolution if you wish to discuss it.
Right after you answer the question: Are Newtonian physics a scientific truth?
 
Upvote 0

Black Dog

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2015
1,696
573
65
✟4,870.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
On the contrary, the Bible has always stated the Earth was not flat. Where did you get that idea?

You might want to reread my post. I never commented on what the bible said.

You said the bible existed long before the TOE, implying that that gave creationism legitimacy. I pointed out that the Flat Earth theory existed long before the bible or the TOE, and asked if similarly that gives the idea of a flat earth legitimacy. I was hoping you would then understand why your reasoning is flawed.
 
Upvote 0

justlookinla

Regular Member
Mar 31, 2014
11,767
199
✟35,675.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You said, "nothing but a wall of cartoons." That was one image. Did your mother not tell you not to exaggerate?

Your sig is another image. I suggest folks check out the post if they're interested in seeing a post of cartoons.

Right after you answer the question: Are Newtonian physics a scientific truth?

Of course I'm not going to answer, your question is off-topic. You could possibly explain how it's on-topic, but I doubt it.
 
Upvote 0

farout

Standing firm for Christ
Nov 23, 2015
1,814
854
Mid West of the good USA
✟29,048.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You might want to reread my post. I never commented on what the bible said.

You said the bible existed long before the TOE, implying that that gave creationism legitimacy. I pointed out that the Flat Earth theory existed long before the bible or the TOE, and asked if similarly that gives the idea of a flat earth legitimacy. I was hoping you would then understand why your reasoning is flawed.


So if you think people believed the Earth was flat back when. Well I can't say what people thought. I was not there back then. However my grand kids say I am old as dirt. I know what God said.
 
Upvote 0