Logical Problems with Calvinism

[EmSw]

If it's cleansed of evil, doesn't that make it good? Why the need to replace it?

Would you rather I said renew? Let me ask you this, is the old man replaced with a new man? Is regeneration replacing the old life with a new life?

 

[sdowney717]

No one said man does this alone. Where did you get that notion? It does say, and read carefully, 'cast away all your transgressions'. 'You' is the understood subject.

And where in the world did you get God is 'lamenting to them'? Why do you make this story up?



And God will create one for them when they cast away their transgressions. Isn't it wonderful when man cooperates with God? Although some would rather read only half the truth. Only when the heart is cleansed of evil can it be replaced with a new, clean heart.

'For why should you die, O house of Israel?'

and the idea is this that I am attempting to convey.
Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’

 

[EmSw]

'For why should you die, O house of Israel?'

and the idea is this
Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’

Is your wicked heart any different than Israel's? Does God want you to turn from your wicked ways and live? Will any man live if he doesn't turn from his wicked ways?

 

[Hammster]

Would you rather I said renew? Let me ask you this, is the old man replaced with a new man? Is regeneration replacing the old life with a new life?

It's replacing the heart of stone with a heart of flesh.

 

[klutedavid]

KluteDavid said "The wild olive branch represents the Gentiles as a whole, "

Paul is describing individuals in Romans when referring to gentiles as wild branches.
I and You are singular persons, not all gentiles.
It sounds to me like your teaching only the nation Israel was elect.

17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

Does God treat all gentiles as one being? No. Do all gentiles get grafted into the true vine, No.
See for you to teach this means you're teaching a universal salvation, that all gentiles are grafted as a group onto the True Vine.
And your teaching if one falls they all fall, if one is saved, all are saved.

Hello SDowney.

You made the comment below.

Paul is describing individuals in Romans when referring to gentiles
as wild branches. I and You are singular persons, not all gentiles.

First person singular pronouns, represent one entity or person. Paul is never
addressing just one person in the church at Rome.

These individuals in Rome are from the saved Gentile population. This letter is
read by Christians world wide, all saved Gentiles must never be arrogant toward
the nation of Israel.

It sounds to me like your teaching only the nation Israel was elect.

Israel was indeed the chosen nation, the elect nation.

Deuteronomy 14:2
"For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen
you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the
face of the earth.

Are you saying that the nation of Israel was not the chosen nation?

See for you to teach this means you're teaching a universal salvation, that
all gentiles are grafted as a group onto the True Vine. And your teaching if one falls
they all fall, if one is saved, all are saved.

Good point SDowney, I will clarify what I said by saying that the wild olive tree,
represents saved Gentiles.

 

[Hammster]

No, I've what I've said, I've said all along. It is man cooperating with God to make himself a new heart.

That's not what the verse says.

 

[klutedavid]

That is clearly incorrect. The wild olive tree (or branch) represents saved Gentiles only, while the good olive tree means saved Jews. The whole point of this section is to remind saved Gentiles to not be high-minded but always keep in mind that salvation came to Israel first, and that the Church began with saved Jews (see Acts 2), and only after than were Gentiles "grafted" in.

I agree with you.

 

[Hammster]

By the truth from God's word, the whole truth. Try Ezekiel 18:31.

Why would a corrupt tree care about God's word?

 

[EmSw]

That's not what the verse says.

There's that 'Trinity' controversy again.

 

[EmSw]

Why would a corrupt tree care about God's word?

Maybe Godly sorrow has something to do with it.

How is a man born again without the Word?

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[Hammster]

There's that 'Trinity' controversy again.

There's that deflection again.

 

[Hammster]

Maybe Godly sorrow has something to do with it.

How is a man born again without the Word?

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Nothing in that verse about making yourself good first.

 

[EmSw]

Nothing in that verse about making yourself good first.

Why would someone want to say the believe in God and still want to live in evil? I just don't understand this. Why wouldn't a true child of God want to live a holy life in everything? Why wouldn't they want to clean their life? Why would they even question God when He says to cast away all their iniquity?

 

[Hammster]

Why would someone want to say the believe in God and still want to live in evil? I just don't understand this. Why wouldn't a true child of God want to live a holy life in all manner of life? Why wouldn't they want to clean their life?

We aren't talking about true children. We are talking about why someone who has a heart of stone would want to be s child in the first place.

 

[EmSw]

Nothing in that verse about making yourself good first.

So, there is nothing good about God's word? I guess you are just going to have it your way.

 

[Hammster]

So, there is nothing good about God's word? I guess you are just going to have it your way.

I didn't say that. But you know that, right?

 

[EmSw]

We aren't talking about true children. We are talking about why someone who has a heart of stone would want to be s child in the first place.

Perhaps for the same reason a child of God wants to live with a heart of stone.

 

[EmSw]

I didn't say that. But you know that, right?

No Hammster you didn't. I said that. What is not good about God's word? Why would Ezekiel 18:31 not be good?

 

[sdowney717]

Peter teaches we are regenerated - born again only due to his mercy.
1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

It does not mention anything about our first being sorrowful. If the sorrow we feel comes from us, then we like Esau cannot obtain repentance though sought with tears.

But a godly sorrow brings forth repentance. The sorrow of the world produces death.
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
Godly sorrow means a godly induced sorrow.

Here is worldly sorrow.
Hebrews 12
16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.
17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.

Someone who has worldly sorrow, even seeking a place of repentance, to them it is not granted.
But those who have godly sorrow, to them it has been granted that they repent.

 

[Hammster]

No Hammster you didn't. I said that. What is not good about God's word? Why would Ezekiel 18:31 not be good?

I never said it wasn't good.