Why do people believe in a Rapture?

[Bible2+]

iamlamad said in post 4543:

The resurrected church is ALREADY THERE IN HEAVEN in the first verses of chapter 19.

In Revelation 19:7, the church is in the 1st heaven, the sky, for the wedding, and it got there at the post-tribulation rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:29-31).

*******

iamlamad said in post 4548:

HOW do those who will have been beheaded get to heaven - that is get their BODY to heaven? Of course their spirit goes, but how does their body get there? The answer is simpler than you think: all of these are a part of the chief and primary of resurrections, including Jesus Christ Himself. ALL the righteous who are resurrected are a part of this primary resurrection, for it is for the righteous.

1 Corinthians 15:20-23,52-54 shows that Jesus was the 1st person to be physically resurrected into immortality (Colossians 1:18, Luke 24:39), and that no one else will be physically resurrected into immortality until his 2nd coming.

The 3 stages of a harvest are firstfruits, main harvest, and gleaning, which can typify 3 physical resurrections: 1. the past, firstfruits physical resurrection of Jesus only (1 Corinthians 15:20,23, Luke 24:39); 2. the future physical resurrection of the entire church at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:23,52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Romans 8:23-25), which will occur immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31), and right before the millennium (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6); and then 3. the physical resurrection at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), which will occur sometime after the millennium and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-15, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

 

[Bible2+]

ivebeenshown said in post 4547:

Amen, "the flood came and destroyed them all." "It rained fire and brimstone and destroyed them all. Even so it will be in the day when the Son of man is revealed."

Luke 17:27,29 and Matthew 24:39 don't mean that all unsaved people will be killed at Jesus' 2nd coming. For Luke 17:34-36 and Matthew 24:40-41 go on to show that some unsaved people will be left alive at that time (Zechariah 14:16-19). So in Luke 17:26-30 and Matthew 24:37-39, the point of the comparison isn't that all unsaved people will be killed at the 2nd coming, but that none of them will be expecting to be killed, but will be eating and drinking without worry right up to the day of the 2nd coming.

Those "left" where they are at the 2nd coming (Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) will include unsaved people who will be forced to come up annually to worship the returned Jesus in Jerusalem during the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19). These unsaved people will have to be ruled with a rod of iron by Jesus and the physically resurrected church during the millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Psalms 2, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 72:8-11). And their descendants will be deceived by Satan after the millennium into committing the Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

The 2nd coming will be like "the days of Noah" (Matthew 24:37) and "the days of Lot" (Luke 17:28,30) in that just as Noah went into the ark before the temporal (i.e. not the eternal) judgment of the Flood, and Lot went out from Sodom before its temporal (not its eternal) judgment (cf. Ezekiel 16:53-56), so the church will be raptured into the sky at the 2nd coming (Matthew 24:30-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:7) before Jesus begins the 2nd-coming, temporal (not the eternal) judgment of the unsaved world alive at that time (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3, Luke 17:26-30, Matthew 24:37-39).

 

[Bible2+]

Riberra said in post 4556:

A falling away or departure from the faith , is not a taking up to Heaven

That's right.

The "falling away" (Greek: apostasia) in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is the apostasy, when some in the church will depart from the faith in the latter times (1 Timothy 4:1), when the Antichrist is revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) and begins a worldwide persecution against the church (Matthew 24:9-13) during his worldwide reign (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). Those in the church who fall away/commit apostasy will ultimately lose their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b).

The meanings of the Greek word apostasia, as well as the Greek word it is derived from, aphistemi, include non-physical departure. For Acts 21:21 employs apostasia to refer to Jewish Christians in the 1st century AD forsaking, departing from, their former practice of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. And Luke 8:13 employs aphistemi to refer to Christians falling away, departing, from the faith. Also, at the rapture, the church won't physically depart from the earth (John 17:15,20, Proverbs 10:30), but will be caught up only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus at his 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

 

[Postvieww]

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.


Rev 6:16 “from the wrath of the Lamb”

Rev 6:17 “the great day of his wrath is come”


10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.


Rev 6:13 “And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth”

Rev 6:12 “the sun became black as sackcloth”

Rev 6:12 “the moon became as blood”


11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.


12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.


13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.


Rev 6:14 “the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together”

Rev 6:14 “every mountain and island were moved out of their places”


Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;


Isaiah 13:10 “the sun shall be darkened”

Isaiah 13:10 “the moon shall not cause her light to shine”


13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.


Isaiah 13:10 “the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light”


14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


Isaiah 13:13 “I will shake the heavens”

Isaiah 13:13 “the earth shall remove out of her place”


15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;


16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:


17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Isaiah 13:9 “Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger”


The 6th seal is the day of the Lord, the day of his wrath, the end of the tribulation, the day of His coming, same as Isaiah 13:9-13, the same a Matt 24 29-31, the same as Joel 2:10-11, the same as Joel 3:13-16, the same as 1 Thess 5:2, the same as Rev 19: 11-21, the same as Rev 11:15-19, the same as Rev 14:14-20.


Joel 2:11 says “the day of the Lord”

Joels 3:16 says “day of the Lord”

Isaiah 13:9 says “day of the Lord”

Rev 6:17 says “ the great day of his wrath”

1 Thess 5:2 says “day of the Lord”


If Isaiah 13: 9-13 is not the same as Rev 6:12-16 where does it fit in the time line of the book of Revelation?


If the description Matt 24: 29-31 does not qualify it to be “the day of the Lord” where does it fit in the timeline of the book of Revelation?


How many sun moon and star events are we to have in the last days before the “day of the Lord”?



Isaiah 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.


1 Thess 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


If Isaiah 13:6 and 1 Thess 5: 2-3 are not the same where do they fit in the time line of the book of Revelation?


Yet to be fulfilled, one more coming of the Lord, one resurrection of the righteous dead.

 

[Postvieww]

Lamad said in post #4543:

The Old Testament saints were the last to arrive, having arrived at the 7th vial, perhaps 30 days previous to Jesus descending.

Where is this in scripture?

How did you determine the OT saints have their own private resurrection?

 

[Postvieww]

Oh! Were you only SUGGESTING that it might be possible that Revelation might be written in the same way?

Perhaps you were only suggesting that the 6th seal could possibly fit better somewhere else.

Perhaps you were only suggesting that it could be possible the two signs in the sun and moon are possibly only one.

No matter how I said it, until all 7 seals are opened there is no way the scroll can be unrolled. That is the very PURPOSE of the seals. It is common sense. Of course you don't use that. You think you have the right to move one of the seals to the end. Sorry, WON'T WORK! in that case, NOTHING could happen that is written in chapters 8-16. They are written INSIDE the sealed scroll.

Sorry again, but John TELLS US what each seal does. Your imagination runs WILD - imagining that something in the seals is repeated farther on in the book. No, the seals were put on the book to make SURE it could not be opened and read (or anything come to pass that was inside) until someone could be found worthy to open the seals.

Since you seem to have such a good imagination, can't you just imagine that Satan felt VERY SURE no one would ever be found that could rise from the dead and escape hell and be found worthy to break the seals? He was surely planning on retiring as god of this world - thinking that position was secure forever!

The seals are the whole scroll.

This is fantasy declared as truth. You seem good at that. It seems all you have for arguments is something that could be possible if things were stretched enough. For example, the two different signs in the sun and moon are written differently, but at lest they both include the sun and moon, so they MUST BE THE SAME SIGN. Never-mind that they come 7 years apart: we will just rearrange Revelation so they seem to be at the same time.

Lamad said:

This is fantasy declared as truth. You seem good at that. It seems all you have for arguments is something that could be possible if things were stretched enough. For example, the two different signs in the sun and moon are written differently, but at lest they both include the sun and moon, so they MUST BE THE SAME SIGN. Never-mind that they come 7 years apart: we will just rearrange Revelation so they seem to be at the same time.


Show us two coming of the Lord passages that are written with identical wording?

Show us a rapture before the sixth seal?

Explain Rev 14:14?

Explain how you arrive at “7 years apart” in your above statement?

Explain how you make the word "last" mean something other than last?

Explain how you determine the last trumpet of Revelation is not the same as the one Paul wrote about.

Show us again how you rearrange 2 Thess 2:1-8 to get around the fact that our gathering is after the “apostasia” and revealing of antichrist.

Show us how you nullify Matt 24:29-31 so it doesn’t apply to believers in Christ?

Show us just one resurrection scripture that is “WORDED” before the tribulation ?

Show us how you make any coming of the Lord passage say He comes before the tribulation?

After you answer these questions you and I can have a conversation about “fantasy” “stretching” and “rearranging”.

 

[Short Timer]

Riberra, you would do well to study this post in depth.

I doubt if they could see any truth in it even if Jesus himself wrote the post, which he did by proxy.

We're having a discussion with some very dishonest people, so dishonest they can't even be honest with themselves, much less anyone else, and certainly not God.

Why study/comment on a post that has the scriptures and Truth oozing out of every words and prove them and their doctrine to be the "man made" doctrine.

But sticking their head in the sand and hoping it will pass and everyone will forget about it is the only defense they can muster,

Problem is, God don't forget, every idle words spoke, every rejection of truth,

and then the really "BIG SIN" comes home to roost, if any sin is bigger than than next.

Rejection of "Jesus/HG" as the "Teacher".

That is the "only reason" why people don't know, don't understand the scriptures.

And evidently they think that the truth they tried to ignore today will pass and be forgot about.

 

[Short Timer]

Lamad said in post #4543:

The Old Testament saints were the last to arrive, having arrived at the 7th vial, perhaps 30 days previous to Jesus descending.

Where is this in scripture?

How did you determine the OT saints have their own private resurrection?

Some OT saints were resurrected and appeared in Jerusalem when Jesus was crucified,

and when Jesus ascended to heaven he cleaned out "Abraham's bosom" taking all who were in Abe's bosom with him.

Jesus opened not only the door on Satan's "prison of sin" but also the "Pearly Gate" to heaven when he paid the "Fine" for man's sins.

Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Isa 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.



1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led (those OT) captivity (by sin)..... (his) captive,

There's only one place this "Garbage doctrine" that no one goes to heaven can come from, and it's certainly not heaven.

 

[Postvieww]

Some OT saints were resurrected and appeared in Jerusalem when Jesus was crucified,

and when Jesus ascended to heaven he cleaned out "Abraham's bosom" taking all who were in Abe's bosom with him.

Jesus opened not only the door on Satan's "prison of sin" but also the "Pearly Gate" to heaven when he paid the "Fine" for man's sins.

Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Isa 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.



1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led (those OT) captivity (by sin)..... (his) captive,

There's only one place this "Garbage doctrine" that no one goes to heaven can come from, and it's certainly not heaven.

Lamad said they arrived at the 7th vial, as usual you did not answer the question.

 

[Postvieww]

I doubt if they could see any truth in it even if Jesus himself wrote the post, which he did by proxy.

We're having a discussion with some very dishonest people, so dishonest they can't even be honest with themselves, much less anyone else, and certainly not God.

Why study/comment on a post that has the scriptures and Truth oozing out of every words and prove them and their doctrine to be the "man made" doctrine.

But sticking their head in the sand and hoping it will pass and everyone will forget about it is the only defense they can muster,

Problem is, God don't forget, every idle words spoke, every rejection of truth,

and then the really "BIG SIN" comes home to roost, if any sin is bigger than than next.

Rejection of "Jesus/HG" as the "Teacher".

That is the "only reason" why people don't know, don't understand the scriptures.

And evidently they think that the truth they tried to ignore today will pass and be forgot about.

It is obvious many of us disagree on this forum and sometimes quite strongly but your self-righteous attitude is out of line.

 

[Short Timer]

Explain Rev 14:14?

Jesus reaps (rapture) and then the "Angels reap", and then the winepress of the trib start

Explain how you arrive at “7 years apart” in your above statement?

Jesus reaping is the Fulness of the Gentiles and the church going to the "Son's wedding" that Israel rejected the invitation too and Jesus confirming of the covenant for "one week" (trib week) with the church,

and Israel/world left behind because they rejected the invite and wasn't accounted worthy to escape the trib.

Explain how you make the word "last" mean something other than last?

OT people didn't have a Comforter/Holy Ghost (of Jesus) speaking to them, God spoke by the prophets,
At Pentecost the spirit was "poured out" on all flesh, that would accept it, the HG was sent to "lead/guide" people.

Just as the Comforter/HG came with Jesus, "HE" will leave with Jesus/church/rapture when Jesus goes to sit on God's right hand while "GOD", not Jesus, make the earth Jesus footstool.

The last trump of the "HOLY GHOST"... "JESUS VOICE" will rapture the church to heaven to sit with Jesus and have the covenant confirmed with them while those not accounted worthy will suffer through the trib for having rejected the invite.

Show us just one resurrection scripture that is “WORDED” before the tribulation ?

No man can show you anything as long as the "SPIRIT" refuses to "SHOW YOU".

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are.......spiritually discerned.

 

[Short Timer]

It is obvious many of us disagree on this forum and sometimes quite strongly but your self-righteous attitude is out of line.

Is it my self Righteous attitude or the "Righteousness of scripture" that is "out of line"???

Yes, I agree, one of us is "Out of line"...with God, but which one is it?????

I believe the whole point of the Gospel is to point out people's "Errors",

Unbelievers/false doctrine get "mad",
Believers get "Glad", when their error are made known.

 

[iamlamad]

If you could show us the 8th trumpet, it would be greatly appreciated.

Get out a dictionary and look up the word "last"...

.

Do you imagine that God will send angels to gather up every trumpet in the universe, including heaven, and then remove even the memory of trumpets so that no trumpet would ever be created again, so that never, ever can there be another trumpet sound? That is what "last" means: NEVER ANOTHER. So are you willing to admit THIS is what you truly believe?

Paul DID NOT SAY "last in the bible." That is your wild imagination. WAKE UP! The bible did not exist when Paul wrote. He was writing a LETTER and had no idea this letter would still be being read 2000 years later. All He said was "last trump." It could mean "last in a series." It could mean "last trumpet in the church age." It could mean the "last trump" of the feast of trumpets.
One thing it COULD NOT POSSIBLY MEAN is the 7th trumpet of Revelation. They are different trumpets with different purposes. You and Postvieww seem to have this in common: if there are two words the same in two different passages, you jump on it and claim both passage are speaking of the same thing.

What it WILL BE is the last trumpet of the church age, for when it sounds, and the dead in Christ are raised, the church age is finished. (read about the door being closed in the parable of the ten virgins). The moment after the trumpet, TIME will be "day of the Lord" time. It will be a DIFFERENT DISPENSATION with different rules and for a different purpose: Judgment.

 

[Postvieww]

Jesus reaps (rapture) and then the "Angels reap", and then the winepress of the trib start



Jesus reaping is the Fulness of the Gentiles and the church going to the "Son's wedding" that Israel rejected the invitation too and Jesus confirming of the covenant for "one week" (trib week) with the church,

and Israel/world left behind because they rejected the invite and wasn't accounted worthy to escape the trib.



OT people didn't have a Comforter/Holy Ghost (of Jesus) speaking to them, God spoke by the prophets,
At Pentecost the spirit was "poured out" on all flesh, that would accept it, the HG was sent to "lead/guide" people.

Just as the Comforter/HG came with Jesus, "HE" will leave with Jesus/church/rapture when Jesus goes to sit on God's right hand while "GOD", not Jesus, make the earth Jesus footstool.

The last trump of the "HOLY GHOST"... "JESUS VOICE" will rapture the church to heaven to sit with Jesus and have the covenant confirmed with them while those not accounted worthy will suffer through the trib for having rejected the invite.



No man can show you anything as long as the "SPIRIT" refuses to "SHOW YOU".

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are.......spiritually discerned.

Postvieww said: ↑

Explain Rev 14:14?

Jesus reaps (rapture) and then the "Angels reap", and then the winepress of the trib start


So you believe the trib starts in Rev 14?

I believe Rev 14:19-20 more closely describes Armageddon.


Postvieww: Explain how you arrive at “7 years apart” in your above statement?

Jesus reaping is the Fulness of the Gentiles and the church going to the "Son's wedding" that Israel rejected the invitation too and Jesus confirming of the covenant for "one week" (trib week) with the church,

and Israel/world left behind because they rejected the invite and wasn't accounted worthy to escape the trib.

I was asking Lamad how he arrived at two sun moon and stars events being 7 years apart. Not what you believe the length of the tribulation to be.


Postvieww:Explain how you make the word "last" mean something other than last?

OT people didn't have a Comforter/Holy Ghost (of Jesus) speaking to them, God spoke by the prophets,

At Pentecost the spirit was "poured out" on all flesh, that would accept it, the HG was sent to "lead/guide" people.

Just as the Comforter/HG came with Jesus, "HE" will leave with Jesus/church/rapture when Jesus goes to sit on God's right hand while "GOD", not Jesus, make the earth Jesus footstool.

The last trump of the "HOLY GHOST"... "JESUS VOICE" will rapture the church to heaven to sit with Jesus and have the covenant confirmed with them while those not accounted worthy will suffer through the trib for having rejected the invite.

I know you have said in the past angels making noise with a trumpet can’t raise anyone or something like that. But Paul said it will happen when the “Trumpet shall sound” and that would be the last one. I’ll believe him.


Postvieww : Show us just one resurrection scripture that is “WORDED” before the tribulation ?

No man can show you anything as long as the "SPIRIT" refuses to "SHOW YOU".

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are.......spiritually discerned.

Again you avoid a direct answer by declaring your superior spirituality. You really need to stop that. Just ignore the question if you can’t answer it.

 

[Postvieww]

Is it my self Righteous attitude or the "Righteousness of scripture" that is "out of line"???

Yes, I agree, one of us is "Out of line"...with God, but which one is it?????

I believe the whole point of the Gospel is to point out people's "Errors",

Unbelievers/false doctrine get "mad",
Believers get "Glad", when their error are made known.

It is your self-righteous attitude that is out of line. The scriptures are never out of line. I’m not mad, or mad at you, it is you that resorts to name calling.

 

[iamlamad]

Lets take a look in (Matthew 24:40-44) "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this that if the Goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

This is one of the places in the Bible people use to support the teaching of a Rapture. If such an event is to take place, why doesn't the word Rapture appear in the Bible? People have accepted this myth for a very long time. Also, the religious teachers have perpetuated this myth for just as long. Why do I refer to the Rapture as being a myth? This is good question, and we will answer that question in the following paragraphs.

All of the Prophets, even David, a man after the Lords' own heart does not speak of rapture, but instead discusses the wilderness (the place of safety during the Great Tribulation), which is right here on the earth. Exactly what does Rapture mean anyway? ("Ecstasy, Intense Spiritual or Emotional Ecstasy") Webster's Dictionary

This doesn't sound anything like what the preachers preach in the churches. What does ecstasy have to do with going to heaven? Yet still, people say that they're going to be raptured off to heaven before the Great Tribulation. And they use scriptures such as (St. Matthew 24: 40-42) "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come." To support their claim, if you go back and start reading this same scripture at the 15th verse and continue down to the 31st verse, skip down to the 36th verse and continue down to the 42nd verse, you will see that this happens after the tribulation and there is no mention of going to heaven said here. Jesus said with his own mouth (St. John 3:13) " And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Also, (St. John 7: 33-34) " Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither: ye cannot come." Another scripture they use is (St. John 14:1-3) " Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." Why do they, when using this scripture, always leave out the part, or ignore, that Jesus said,” I will come again"? Come again to the earth to receive you to myself.

Please tell us what word you would prefer the church to use for the event when paul wrote: "shall be caught up together with them in the clouds..."? It has been called "rapermier" in Latin speaking countries, and "harpazo" in Greek speaking countries. I imagine that are many other words in other languages.

In our Webster's dictionary for the third definition I read: "often capitalized : the final assumption of Christians into heaven during the end-time according to Christian theology"

Perhaps you are saying you don't believe Paul knew what he was talking about?

When this event that Paul wrote about does take place, can you not at least imagine that there could be two in one bed, one born again and one not, and one taken and one not?

It seems you are mistaken on all your above points (as usual). OF COURSE there is a "coming" in Paul's catching up verses. Did you MISS IT? "We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep...." I read "coming" there and have never, even once, denied that at the great "catching up" of those "in Christ" will NOT be a coming. In fact, this pretrib coming FOR His saints will be His "second" coming.

 

[iamlamad]

Q: Why do people believe in a Rapture?
A: because those people would like to believe that God will save them from tribulations and trials that may be more severe than the day to day trials that they face now. It is part of the fear that people feel about physical and mental suffering. It is part of having difficulty in believing that one must take up his cross and follow Jesus even when it may lead to suffering. It is also part of not knowing why suffering has a role in living a faithful life in communion with Jesus Christ.

This is a strange post. I have been in churches every week for close to 70 years and I have yet to hear ANYONE preach or teach for a pulpit that we are to be free from trials and tribulations. Do I smell a red herring?
There is one thing that God has promised to keep us from, and that is when HIS WRATH comes to the earth in judgment. Luke 21:36 tells us to pray that we be found worthy to escape this wrath of God that is coming.

Of course, if you wish to stay behind and see what His wrath will be like, I believe God will allow that. just know that you will be overcome and lose your head.

 

[iamlamad]

So where are going to be taken up at?

If I understand your question, FROM where-ever you are standing at the time.
"Apo" a part of a whole removed from the whole and taken away so they are no longer with the whole
"Stasia" a standing, as in a stationary engine does not move. It just "stands" in one place.

At the rapture, a part of the whole will be taken, and the rest just left standing (or remaining in their place) while God removes those that are "in Christ."

 

[iamlamad]

Matthew 24:
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Sorry, but this gathering in Matthew 24 is not the same gathering as Paul's gathering for several reasons.

 

[iamlamad]

People believe in a rapture because:

1. It's titillating despite it's error.
2. It's easy to browbeat others with it.
3. It allows people to shirk any sense of responsibility to God's creation.
4. People love to draw lines in the sand between themselves and others; always conveniently placing themselves on the "right" side.

on the contrary, we believe it because it is very much a part of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is written down in God's Word. The bigger question is, since it IS written in God's word, WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT?