Did the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?

[BobRyan]

You completely lack understand on this. The fact that I don't know anything about Ellen W. has nothing to do with your accusation that SDA's say your salvation depends on knowing her writings because I know the people of the SDA church, in my area at least. I've been attending the SDA church since I was 40, I'm 53 now. The 4 years I lived in Hawaii I attended almost every week. Here in Milwaukee I go almost 3 times a month. I think that is enough to know. Also, the people here at the church in Milwaukee are friends. Not once, never, no one has ever told me that I need to believe in her writings to be saved.

Adventists do not have a message that is of the form "Believe that God gave Ellen White the 1 Cor 12 gift of prophecy or you cannot be saved" -- that is a totally false accusation.

However SDAs do tell their own members that there is plenty of evidence that Ellen White was given the 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy. And this is one of our 28 Fundamental Beliefs. We also believe a vegetarian diet is best - but we don't have a message to the world saying that if you are not vegetarian you cannot be saved. We say you will be healthier if you are vegetarian and that God wants people to be good stewards of their health - so as to "glorify God in your body".

All those nonsense false accusations - are based on fluff as far as I have ever seen - and I am 4th generation SDA.

 

[BobRyan]

You need to be reminded of Rev 22:14. Its an out right claim others don't possess salvation unless they keep the 7th day Sabbath.

Just not in real life.

Not in the actual SDA church. At no time has the church taught that all Christian are lost except those that keep the Bible Sabbath.

Please explain how the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus isn't suffienct for salvation.

"IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15 - does not say "accept the death burial and resurrection of Christ and ignore the rest of what He said" -- for most of us.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Your claim is we must also keep the law which the Bible says there are none.

We have only "you" as our source on that. Were we simply "not supposed to notice"???

 

[Bryan G]

Maybe you should consider actually reading what the Bible says instead of what your religion teaches about the Bible.

I don't have a religion, I don't follow a church, I've said that many times here. The church I go to, I'm not a member because I don't believe all their doctrines. from 14 yrs to 40 yrs, I had only the Bible and the Holy Spirit to learn with, so I learned with no fasle doctrines, but you, I can see you are following what many false churches teach, so I assume, you are the one that is listening to a religion.
If you love me, keep my commandments, Jesus said... That is why I follow them. You, you choose to fight against them. You "reason" your way around them with me, but I don't count, in the end, you'll have to reason with Jesus, so all your reasoning will mean nothing.
You have shown the hardness of your heart. You've shown you don't love Jesus, because can't accept following his commandments, as he asked, you've made your bed, soon you will have to lie in it, unless you humble yourself and try to let the Holy Spirit teach you...

 

[Bryan G]

Adventists do not have a message that is of the form "Believe that God gave Ellen White the 1 Cor 12 gift of prophecy or you cannot be saved" -- that is a totally false accusation.

Agreed. I've been in a SDA church for 13 years now, and no one has ever said that.

However SDAs do tell their own members that there is plenty of evidence that Ellen White was given the 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy.

I have heard that, but don't totally agree, but as others in my church say, it's not a salvation issue.

And this is one of our 28 Fundamental Beliefs.

I have a problem with:
#13 I read all the verses on the remnant, and I find no evidence it's a church. In the Bible a church is referred to as a woman, bride or church, this is just a people. I believe there will be a falling out of the church, and that will be the remnant, and it will include many from other denominations. The womans ordination issue has the church already divided, and the ones in favor, the liberals, will win, leaving 2 choices, accept the false teaching of womens ordination, or leave the church. I'm not a member, so I'm not worried, I don't believe salvation is based on church membership.
#18 You know how I feel on this.
#24 I don't believe in investigative judgment. I've had my pastor over a couple of times to talk about it, and I don't feel he proved it. I'm sorry for saying this, but I feel it's just an excuse to make up for the great disappointment of 1844.

We also believe a vegetarian diet is best - but we don't have a message to the world saying that if you are not vegetarian you cannot be saved. We say you will be healthier if you are vegetarian and that God wants people to be good stewards of their health - so as to "glorify God in your body".

I agree with her on this. I was having headaches (actually in the neck) since I was 40. At 51 they were so bad there were times I was in so much pain, I couldn't do anything. Once I was on the floor in so much pain I couldn't even stand, for 4 days. This was starting to happen 3 to 4 times a month, so I saw a doctor. He did x-rays, MRI, blood tests, physical therapy and a chiropractor, nothing helped. So I followed what the church teaches, I went raw vegan for 4 months. The headaches were gone the day I started. I also lost 30 pounds in the first 3 months. Then I went to 60% raw vegan, 30% vegetarian and 10% whatever. I'm not sure if it's 10%, but I eat meat once a week, on Friday. I've continued to lose weight, over the next year and a half I lost another 25 pounds, I have 20 more to go. This isn't a "diet", I've change my lifestyle, permanently.
Turns out, it was MSG. If I eat too much, I'll get that headache back, so we stick to organic, and mostly raw vegan, this keeps me feeling better at 53 than I did at 40 years old.

All those nonsense false accusations - are based on fluff as far as I have ever seen

Agreed

I am 4th generation SDA.

I don't mean to offend you, but this is something about SDA's that bothers me. My wife always brags she's a 2nd generation, and I always hear this type of stuff, I'm (2nd, 3rd, or what ever) generation. I don't understand that.
I do not consider myself as SDA, I'm a Christian, I follow Christ, and if you want to categorize it, I'm a protestant, as are the SDA's. I go to the SDA church because it's the best I've found, just like Doug Batchelor, he says the same thing. But I will not consider myself a member because of those 3 parts of the doctrine I disagree with. I hope I didn't offend you with this last thing...

 

[Bryan G]

Romans 2:12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

 

[tulipbee]

According the bible you can't drive to church on Saturday cause you cars produces fire and no fire is allowed on that day. You'll have to eat your dinner frozen and you'll need to turn off your heater. You'll need to walk to church.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't mean to offend you, but this is something about SDA's that bothers me. My wife always brags she's a 2nd generation, and I always hear this type of stuff, I'm (2nd, 3rd, or what ever) generation. I don't understand that.
I do not consider myself as SDA, I'm a Christian, I follow Christ, and if you want to categorize it, I'm a protestant, as are the SDA's. I go to the SDA church because it's the best I've found, just like Doug Batchelor, he says the same thing. But I will not consider myself a member because of those 3 parts of the doctrine I disagree with. I hope I didn't offend you with this last thing...

I say it to convey the point that I know enough about what the SDA denomination teaches to be fairly accurate in my claims about what it teaches. That is not a claim that all the doctrine is correct -- merely a claim that I am pretty accurate about at least knowing what it really is.

 

[BobRyan]

I have a problem with:
#13 I read all the verses on the remnant, and I find no evidence it's a church. In the Bible a church is referred to as a woman, bride or church, this is just a people. I believe there will be a falling out of the church, and that will be the remnant, and it will include many from other denominations.

In the dark ages the "remnant" (what is left) are those in Rev 12 being persecuted for 1260 years. They are "what is left" of the church - that is enduring century upon century of dark ages style persecution.

There were saved saints on the Catholic side of that issue and on the burning-at-the-stake Protestant side - but those who were protesting were "the remnant" in that they were carrying forward the initiative God was calling for at that time. The same is true today of those that "keep the Commandments of God AND have the Testimony of Jesus" Rev 12 - where the "Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy" Rev 19. It is pretty hard to find a single Christian on the planet today that knows of Seventh-day Adventists and does not know that they believe in keeping the Commandments of God - including the TEN Commandments - and also that they make some claim to having a singular claim to the gift of prophecy associated with this denomination. The most translated Christian author in the world - is the person associated with that gift -- Ellen White.

Few other denomination can say both of those things.

in any case - we are not talking about "who is saved and who is not" we are talking about the idea of Noah and the boat - a specific message at the end of time - and who has it. Who else has that Rev 14 Three Angel's message? Who has the message of Heb 8:1 "The main point" about what Christ is doing as High Priest in heaven? That is the question being addressed by "Remnant" - and is ALSO known for the Rev 12 "testimony of Jesus" that is called "the Spirit of Prophecy" Rev 19???

#18 You know how I feel on this.
#24 I don't believe in investigative judgment. I've had my pastor over a couple of times to talk about it, and I don't feel he proved it. I'm sorry for saying this, but I feel it's just an excuse to make up for the great disappointment of 1844.

Daniel 7 proves the pre-advent "investigate" (As in based on evidence in books) Judgment. In Daniel 7 that judgment is sometime after the fall of the pagan Roman empire. In Daniel 7 it is before the setting up of Christ's kingdom on earth. In Daniel 7 the "Judgment is passed in favor of the saints" Dan 7:22 at the conclusion of the judgment. And the conclusion also brings about the end of the persecution of the saints.

That comes from Daniel 7 without any references to Ellen White - or Seventh-day Adventists.

The womans ordination issue has the church already divided, and the ones in favor, the liberals, will win, leaving 2 choices, accept the false teaching of womens ordination, or leave the church. I'm not a member, so I'm not worried, I don't believe salvation is based on church membership.

Salvation is not based on church membership neither is it based on women's ordination pro-or-con. In 1Cor 14 "each person has a teaching, a revelation, a tongue" in that church. That included women.

Having said that - I have no problem not having women pastors.

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 2:12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Romans 2:6-16 describes the way in which the Dan 7 "investigative judgment" works - the rules by which it operates.

It tells us that the judgment is future and that it is part of the Gospel just as Rev 14 says that it is part of the "everlasting Gospel" -- and that includes the message "the hour of His Judgment has come"

 

[BobRyan]

According the bible you can't drive to church on Saturday cause you cars produces fire

In the Bible they had fires in the winter -- on Sabbath, even in the temple. But that was not needed in the desert.

 

[Bryan G]

Why go on the "bring the lamb to the alter" day when the apostles met on Sundays

The apostles met on more days than just Sunday, they met on other weekdays also, plus they met on Saturday, the 7th day, the Sabbath to worship.
This is one of the most misguided things many churches teach to take people away from God: Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight. All this says is they met, they ate and Paul spoke to them. I've seen preachers preaching on different days of the week. Does the Sabbath change to Wednesday just because someone were to preach on that day? Or Tuesday because someone preached on that day? That would be foolish.

 

[BobRyan]

The apostles met on more days than just Sunday, they met on other weekdays also, plus they met on Saturday, the 7th day, the Sabbath to worship.

In fact there are no week-day-1 after -week-day-1 "Services" in the NT - "gathered for worship" etc. But you DO find that in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 BOTH Jews AND Gentiles are gathered "Sabbath after Sabbath" for worship and gospel teaching.

T
This is one of the most misguided things many churches teach to take people away from God: Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight. All this says is they met, they ate and Paul spoke to them. I've seen preachers preaching on different days of the week. Does the Sabbath change to Wednesday just because someone were to preach on that day? Or Tuesday because someone preached on that day? That would be foolish.

If "until midnight" is still week-day-1 then Paul was planning all-day-travel on Sunday - not rest and worship.

IF "unil midnight" is week-day-2... monday -- then the church is meeting for ... whatever they are doing ... on MONDAY -- and not a soul claiming "Monday is the new Sabbath"

 

[BobRyan]

Its a matter of how one becomes worthy. You promote fear and I have peace you can't take away from me. Did you sin today by the Bible? Or did you keep your amended law (the 4th commandment)?

bugkiller

Hint- God's Ten Commandments were not "amended to include the 4th commandment" - they already.

God's law is established based on "HE who Said" - according to James 2 when speaking of the TEN Commandments.

Details matter.

 

[Bob S]

"Sorry to get you so infuriated"
There is another flaw of most people, they judge everyone by how they are. People who steal, think everyone steals, people who lie, think everyone lies. You get "infuriated", so you think I am, well, no, I'm not.

I was Infuriated? That is what I accused you of being. What you wrote telling me I am hateful and other unkind adjectives sure made me feel you were. By the way, I do forgive you. I know very well how frustrated I would get when someone would challenge my SDA beliefs. I am sure glad they did now. I am free, free from being bound with rules and the false writings the church touts. I am free to tell the World I am saved. It was Ellen who told the fflock to never say you are saved.

If you THINK Ellen said "we will lose our eternal inheritance if we do not pay a faithful tithe and do not "keep" the Sabbath" then show me, where does she say this, what book, what chapter. Anyone can make up anything they want, I don't know you, so I am not going to just take your word for it.

I love a challenge Bryan. I would like you to know I do not write anything I cannot backup. I should have quoted ellen on the spot in my post to you, but here it is both on the Sabbath and tithing. Ellen was the judge.

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}


But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}




We should regularly reserve something for God's cause, that He may not be robbed of the portion which He claims. When we rob God we rob ourselves also. We give up the heavenly treasure for the sake of having more of this earth. This is a loss that we cannot afford to sustain. (5T 271.3)

The man who has been unfortunate, and finds himself in debt, should not take the Lord's portion to cancel his debts to his fellow men. He should consider that in these transactions he is being tested, and that in reserving the Lord's portion for his own use he is robbing the Giver. He is debtor to God for all that he has, but he becomes a double debtor when he uses the Lord's reserved fund in paying debts to human beings. "Unfaithfulness to God" is written against his name in the books of heaven. He has an account to settle with God for appropriating the Lord's means for his own convenience. And the want of principle shown in his misappropriation of God's means will be revealed in his management of other matters. It will be seen in all matters connected with his own business. The man who will rob God is cultivating traits of character that will cut him off from admittance into the family of God above. (6T 391.1)

I already told you, I know there is falsehoods in the SDA church, I do not agree to all their fundamental beliefs. I already told you about the apostasy in the church, but it's still the best church I've found.

How hard are or did you look? Yes, there are a lot of churches that don't have it all correct. The good churches are not telling you you will go the hell for not agreeing with their doctrine. In the posts I have already made here on this form I have shown the reader the other side, the real scriptural side.Sabbath was a requirement for the Israelites. God has never ask anyone else to observe a day period.

You completely lack understand on this. The fact that I don't know anything about Ellen W. has nothing to do with your accusation that SDA's say your salvation depends on knowing her writings because I know the people of the SDA church, in my area at least. I've been attending the SDA church since I was 40, I'm 53 now. The 4 years I lived in Hawaii I attended almost every week. Here in Milwaukee I go almost 3 times a month. I think that is enough to know. Also, the people here at the church in Milwaukee are friends. Not once, never, no one has ever told me that I need to believe in her writings to be saved. I tell them all the time that I will not read her writings and I am not convinced she was a prophet, and no one has ever said I have to believe she was.

How about backing up and showing me where I ever said salvation depends on believing in Ellen White. I tell you you are putting words in my mouth plus you are not actually reading my posts with clarity. I spent 40 years in the SDA church. Spending time in the SDA church does not make the church correct. As far as the people are concerned, some of my best friends are SDA. My daughter is still SDA. I spent a wonderful European this past summer with great SDA friends. Do they buy into Adventism hook, line and sinker. Absolutely not, they are still there for personal reasons not because they believe all the things the church teaches

I also told you that I'm talking about the churches I attend, maybe you visited ones that are more radical. But if some are like you claim, some are also like the one I attend, so not ALL SDA's are like you think, either way you lied. You are putting a blanket judgment over all the churches and all the people, when there is no way you can know how all SDA's are.

Look, all SDA churches are subject to the 28 fundamental doctrines. Whether all conform to those doctrines is something else. One of those 28 beliefs is believing in the "Spirit of Prophesy" found in the writings of Ellen White. You say to be a SDA you don't have to believe in her. That is a pure conundrum. Plus, why would I want to be bound to a church that I couldn't agree with?

I'll take back everything I said if you can show me where Ellen W. said what you claim. I would like to see that, because if it's true, I would use that to show how she is wrong and this would be proof she's a false prophet.

I am patiently waiting my friend. In Christ, Bob S

 

[BobRyan]

I was Infuriated? That is what I accused you of being. What you wrote telling me I am hateful and other unkind adjectives sure made me feel you were. By the way, I do forgive you. I know very well how frustrated I would get when someone would challenge my SDA beliefs.

???

What are your "SDA beliefs"????

 

[BobRyan]

. It was Ellen who told the fflock to never say you are saved.

SDAs are Arminian - not Calvinist - we do not believe in OSAS just like many other Christian groups.

That includes Ellen White -


Carefully and solemnly those who received the message came up to the time when they hoped to meet their Lord. Every morning they felt that it was their first duty to secure the evidence of their acceptance with God. Their hearts were closely united, and they prayed much with and for one another. They often met together in secluded places to commune with God, and the voice of intercession ascended to heaven from the fields and groves. The assurance of the Saviour's approval was more necessary to them than their daily food; and if a cloud darkened their minds, they did not rest until it was swept away. As they felt the witness of pardoning grace, they longed to behold Him whom their souls loved. GC 403

How are you to know that you are accepted of God? Study his word prayerfully. Lay it not aside for any other book. This book convinces of sin. It reveals plainly the way of salvation. It brings to view a bright and glorious reward. It reveals to you a complete Saviour, and teaches you that through his boundless mercy alone can you expect salvation. {2SG 264.2}

Do not neglect secret prayer, for it is the soul of religion. With earnest, fervent prayer plead for purity of soul. Plead as earnestly, as eagerly, as you would for your mortal life, were it at stake. Remain before God until unutterable longings are begotten within you for salvation, and the sweet evidence is obtained of pardoned sin. {2SG 264.3}

The hope of eternal life is not to be taken up upon slight grounds. It is a subject to be settled between God and your own soul; settled for eternity. A supposed hope, and nothing more, will prove your ruin. Since you are to 265

 

[BobRyan]

I was Infuriated? That is what I accused you of being. What you wrote telling me I am hateful and other unkind adjectives sure made me feel you were. By the way, I do forgive you. I know very well how frustrated I would get when someone would challenge my SDA beliefs. I am sure glad they did now. I am free, free from being bound with rules and the false writings the church touts. I am free to tell the World I am saved. It was Ellen who told the fflock to never say you are saved.




I love a challenge Bryan. I would like you to know I do not write anything I cannot backup. I should have quoted ellen on the spot in my post to you, but here it is both on the Sabbath and tithing. Ellen was the judge.

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}

...
And the want of principle shown in his misappropriation of God's means will be revealed in his management of other matters. It will be seen in all matters connected with his own business. The man who will rob God is cultivating traits of character that will cut him off from admittance into the family of God above. (6T 391.1)

Ellen White talks about "Cultivating traits of character that will cut off someone" -- in true Matt 18 style of "forgiveness revoked". -- for those who embrace the doctrinal error of OSAS - this is impossible to accept.

The man who will rob God is cultivating traits of character that will cut him off from admittance into the family of God above. (6T 391.1)

But not everyone is convinced of the tithe doctrine in the Bible.

"to Him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17

I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the holy place was finished and He had passed within the second veil; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened into the most holy, when the midnight cry was finished, at the seventh month, 1844, and who had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened. I saw that Satan was tempting some of God’s people on this point. Because so many good Christians have fallen asleep in the triumphs of faith and have not kept the true Sabbath, they were doubting about its being a test for us now. {EW 42.3}


This is another example exposing the flaw of "only telling half truths" -- because when "The full truth is revealed" the half-truth effort is fully exposed.

Look, all SDA churches are subject to the 28 fundamental doctrines. Whether all conform to those doctrines is something else. One of those 28 beliefs is believing in the "Spirit of Prophesy" found in the writings of Ellen White. You say to be a SDA you don't have to believe in her. That is a pure conundrum.

IT is true that SDAs have never held that reluctance to accept the fact that Ellen White was given the 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy, should be a barrier to joining the church. And so members have always been admitted who had not yet worked through that detail.

That is simply a fact.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

So the topic of this thread is not Ellen White - nor is it Tithing - but rather the historic fact of changes attempted by tradition when it comes to the Commandments of God.

For some X-SDAs every thread is a "why I don't like SDAs" thread or a "Why I don't like Ellen White" thread. That is a violation of the board rules to sidetrack every thread that way - no matter what the thread title.

There is an "SDA discussion" area of CF where all of that sort of thing can be discussed all day long.

Let's return to the actual topic of the thread.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Bob S]

So the topic of this thread is not Ellen White - nor is it Tithing - but rather the historic fact of changes attempted by tradition when it comes to the Commandments of God.

For some X-SDAs every thread is a "why I don't like SDAs" thread or a "Why I don't like Ellen White" thread. That is a violation of the board rules to sidetrack every thread that way - no matter what the thread title.

There is an "SDA discussion" area of CF where all of that sort of thing can be discussed all day long.

Let's return to the actual topic of the thread.

in Christ,

Bob

Fair enough. I take note that you didn't try to put the thread back on track until you got the last response. Kinda tricky I would say.

Okay, to answer thee thread question "
"Did the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?"
In formality yes, at least they brag that they did. In actuality no, the first day, as a worship day, began in the first century. It was not made a law until Constintine.

 

[Bryan G]

I was Infuriated? That is what I accused you of being. What you wrote telling me I am hateful and other unkind adjectives sure made me feel you were. By the way, I do forgive you. I know very well how frustrated I would get when someone would challenge my SDA beliefs. I am sure glad they did now. I am free, free from being bound with rules and the false writings the church touts. I am free to tell the World I am saved. It was Ellen who told the fflock to never say you are saved.




I love a challenge Bryan. I would like you to know I do not write anything I cannot backup. I should have quoted ellen on the spot in my post to you, but here it is both on the Sabbath and tithing. Ellen was the judge.

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}


But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}




We should regularly reserve something for God's cause, that He may not be robbed of the portion which He claims. When we rob God we rob ourselves also. We give up the heavenly treasure for the sake of having more of this earth. This is a loss that we cannot afford to sustain. (5T 271.3)

The man who has been unfortunate, and finds himself in debt, should not take the Lord's portion to cancel his debts to his fellow men. He should consider that in these transactions he is being tested, and that in reserving the Lord's portion for his own use he is robbing the Giver. He is debtor to God for all that he has, but he becomes a double debtor when he uses the Lord's reserved fund in paying debts to human beings. "Unfaithfulness to God" is written against his name in the books of heaven. He has an account to settle with God for appropriating the Lord's means for his own convenience. And the want of principle shown in his misappropriation of God's means will be revealed in his management of other matters. It will be seen in all matters connected with his own business. The man who will rob God is cultivating traits of character that will cut him off from admittance into the family of God above. (6T 391.1)


How hard are or did you look? Yes, there are a lot of churches that don't have it all correct. The good churches are not telling you you will go the hell for not agreeing with their doctrine. In the posts I have already made here on this form I have shown the reader the other side, the real scriptural side.Sabbath was a requirement for the Israelites. God has never ask anyone else to observe a day period.



How about backing up and showing me where I ever said salvation depends on believing in Ellen White. I tell you you are putting words in my mouth plus you are not actually reading my posts with clarity. I spent 40 years in the SDA church. Spending time in the SDA church does not make the church correct. As far as the people are concerned, some of my best friends are SDA. My daughter is still SDA. I spent a wonderful European this past summer with great SDA friends. Do they buy into Adventism hook, line and sinker. Absolutely not, they are still there for personal reasons not because they believe all the things the church teaches



Look, all SDA churches are subject to the 28 fundamental doctrines. Whether all conform to those doctrines is something else. One of those 28 beliefs is believing in the "Spirit of Prophesy" found in the writings of Ellen White. You say to be a SDA you don't have to believe in her. That is a pure conundrum. Plus, why would I want to be bound to a church that I couldn't agree with?



I am patiently waiting my friend. In Christ, Bob S

I agree with her on one point, once someone is shown that the Sabbath is the day of worship, not Sunday, they are going against God by not keeping it.

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}

Thank you for looking that up. I challenged you to prove it, because I'm very busy and was hoping you would. That line disturbs me, you can't be saved just because you keep the Sabbath. So what is EGW saying, that I can murder and steal, but as long as I keep the Sabbath, I'm saved. Yea, thats a good example of why I don't care for her writings.

There is someone in my church who is close to me that read "the great controversy" 3 times this year, that disturbs me because that person is spending more time in EG's writings than the Bible.

I am patiently waiting my friend. In Christ, Bob S

You'll have to wait a little longer, I'm thinking.


You don't get what I've said, more than once I think. I didn't have ANY church for 39 years. All I believe, I got from the Bible and the Holy Spirit. I have NO "SDA beliefs". The SDA church did not change ANY of my beliefs.
Like I said, I went to a Reformed church until I was 14, then I walked away from all churches, until I was 40. My great grand parents came from the Netherlands, my history is Calvin. I only learned this about 5 months ago.
When I was 17, some things came to me, I believe from the Holy Spirit:
I was convinced that the Sabbath is the day to worship.
I believed a God of love would never put sinners in hell for eternity.
I decided that when you die, you can't go to heaven or hell, judgment day hadn't come yet
What other church teaches these things?

I believe the apostasy in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is not a single church, it's all churches, and has happened. I believe this church is the best out there, not perfect, but there is no perfect church. I will not subscribe to all their beliefs, but no one in my church is forcing me to.

The church I attend mentions EGW maybe once a month, if it was more, it would bother me and I would think about leaving.

It was Ellen who told the fflock to never say you are saved.

That's funny, no one has ever said that when I tell them I don't believe she was a prophet, like I said, I focus on my local church, the one I attend, and I don't care for EGW.

How about backing up and showing me where I ever said salvation depends on believing in Ellen White

I never said that you said that... You said the SDA church says that and I told you I've never heard that from anyone in the church...