Jesus vs science

janny108

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My daughter and I were in the car and I was playing the Christian station. One song was about Jesus, the name of Jesus. Then she got a bit agitated and says she believes in science. Just what does that mean??

Months ago I told her, we enjoy science programs too...
 

hedrick

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Has she been hearing people say that Christianity rejects science? If so, it would explain that reaction. I'd assume that reaction was based on something someone said, but you'd need to talk with her to see what she means and where it came from. Is she learning evolution in school? Did someone claim in history that the Bible says the earth is flat? Might one of her classmates said something, possibly based on misinformation about Christianity? One of the teachers? It's hard to judge without talking with her. She's probably going to hear all of these things at one time or another. You might want to go through them with her in advance.

Your About Me suggests that you take Gen 1 - 3 literally. This isn't the place to argue whether it's right or wrong, but if she thinks that Christianity claims a literal Gen 1 creation and science contradicts it, it could cause problems, particularly if (like many Aspies) she has any tendency towards black and white thinking. In fact even if you yourself don't take it literally, she might find non-literal readings hard to understand. (I once talked about Matthew 5 with a 7th and 8th grade class that had an Aspie in it. He was and is a wonderful Christian, but I don't think I ever convinced him that Jesus didn't really want anyone to cut anything off.)
 
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akmom

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She obviously heard it somewhere. Social media is filled with snarky little captions about science being incompatible with God. It's probably time to have an open discussion about it, instead of trying to pinpoint where it came from.

I have seen the comments in news articles frequently divulge into attacks on religion - mostly snarky, no real debate involved. Kids are very impressionable to this. And it's all over the place, not just classrooms or churches or other places where debate is appropriate. All you can really do is prepare them for it, teach them the issues behind it and encourage them to discern. Otherwise they may feel compelled to identify with "science," because someone convinced them that it was cooler, or more convincing, and that you can't believe both.

There are all sorts of propaganda techniques that can make kids feel like they have to "choose" science over faith. It might be a good idea to introduce your daughter to the different types of propaganda, so she can recognize them. Particularly straw man, red herring, false dichotomy and ad nauseum (think Facebook). I highly doubt that her statement came from anything she learned in class, even if they are covering evolution. It's too trendy; she heard it somewhere and felt compelled to adopt it.
 
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Affliction

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She obviously heard it somewhere. Social media is filled with snarky little captions about science being incompatible with God. It's probably time to have an open discussion about it, instead of trying to pinpoint where it came from.

I have seen the comments in news articles frequently divulge into attacks on religion - mostly snarky, no real debate involved. Kids are very impressionable to this. And it's all over the place, not just classrooms or churches or other places where debate is appropriate. All you can really do is prepare them for it, teach them the issues behind it and encourage them to discern. Otherwise they may feel compelled to identify with "science," because someone convinced them that it was cooler, or more convincing, and that you can't believe both.

There are all sorts of propaganda techniques that can make kids feel like they have to "choose" science over faith. It might be a good idea to introduce your daughter to the different types of propaganda, so she can recognize them. Particularly straw man, red herring, false dichotomy and ad nauseum (think Facebook). I highly doubt that her statement came from anything she learned in class, even if they are covering evolution. It's too trendy; she heard it somewhere and felt compelled to adopt it.

We could always jump to conclusions OR..


Assume that we have a bright mind thinking for herself after being raised a certain way and questioning the world. hm.
 
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eatenbylocusts

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You really need to ask her what she meant by the comment then provide her with material so she can understand that God and science are compatible. Despite what the young atheist above me posted there are many brilliant minds in science who understand that this universe could not be without an intelligent creator. My brilliant aerospace engineer father who assisted many a trip to outer space was one of them, but he didn't take Jesus as his Savior until he was in his 40's.
 
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Blue Wren

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Has she been hearing people say that Christianity rejects science? If so, it would explain that reaction. I'd assume that reaction was based on something someone said, but you'd need to talk with her to see what she means and where it came from. Is she learning evolution in school? Did someone claim in history that the Bible says the earth is flat? Might one of her classmates said something, possibly based on misinformation about Christianity? One of the teachers? It's hard to judge without talking with her. She's probably going to hear all of these things at one time or another. You might want to go through them with her in advance.

Your About Me suggests that you take Gen 1 - 3 literally. This isn't the place to argue whether it's right or wrong, but if she thinks that Christianity claims a literal Gen 1 creation and science contradicts it, it could cause problems, particularly if (like many Aspies) she has any tendency towards black and white thinking. In fact even if you yourself don't take it literally, she might find non-literal readings hard to understand. (I once talked about Matthew 5 with a 7th and 8th grade class that had an Aspie in it. He was and is a wonderful Christian, but I don't think I ever convinced him that Jesus didn't really want anyone to cut anything off.)

:thumbsup:
 
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Butterfly99

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I don't know why she thinks it's Jesus vs. Science. There's no reason for that. I go to a magnet school for science & technology. I love science. I love Jesus more!!!!! There's no reason to reject science. Maybe she was just going through a phase.
 
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Avniel

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Charles Darwin has a book he wrote and in the book he says that if he were alive today he would believe in God. The fact is if Darwin was right he knew dna would be simply to understand, he knew if DNA was complex that point at a grand designer. He didn't have the science tools to look at DNA, we know it's complex now. Science can support the existence of God but it typically doesnt because scientists have accepted Darwin's theory and other theories as true when they have no basis.
 
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hedrick

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Charles Darwin has a book he wrote and in the book he says that if he were alive today he would believe in God.
The account that I think you're referring to is generally considered false. It's not a book by him, but a book published in 1915. (He died in 1882.)
Science can support the existence of God but it typically doesnt because scientists have accepted Darwin's theory and other theories as true when they have no basis.
Darwin believed that evolution is consistent with Christianity, though he seems to have ended up as an agnostic. Many people who accept evolution are Christians. So science certainly does support the existence of God. It’s mainly conservative Christians who say that science contradicts Christianity, not actual scientists.
 
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Sabertooth

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For evolution to be true, I am still stuck on the dilemma: "Without a literal Adam, Eve and Fall of Man, there is no need for a Savior..." (And my work history is very STEM*-related!)

*Science, Technology, Engineering & Math.
 
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hedrick

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There are some approaches at identifying a literal Adam and Eve. I don’t find them convincing. But you can try to identify a single pair of people who are the first beings to be fully responsible before God.

But if you see the creation story as non-literal anyway, I would think you’d see Adam and Eve as non-literal. In that case it’s a narrative way of speaking of the fact that humanity seems to inherently fall short of being what God has planned for us to be. Even if placed in an ideal environment, humans would find a way to sin.

Not all Christians think we inherit the guilt of a specific action. Calvin, for example, rejects that. Rather, he believes that we are born with a nature that’s incapable of following God without his previous activity of regenerating us. That doesn't depend upon Adam and Eve being literal.
 
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Sabertooth

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But if you see the creation story as non-literal anyway, I would think you’d see Adam and Eve as non-literal. In that case it’s a narrative way of speaking of the fact that humanity seems to inherently fall short of being what God has planned for us to be. Even if placed in an ideal environment, humans would find a way to sin.
The dilemma, then, would be "How would a good creature become bad, without the deliberate [rebellion?] of a free-will agent?" Secondly (if there was no single original pair), "Why isn't there both a guilty and an innocent lineage?" (The second dilemma might be accounted for in Calvinism, however...)
 
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hedrick

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I wouldn’t want to say that God created evil, but even traditional theology has to say that he allowed us to be in a state where we can and do choose evil. The only question is whether we got that way naturally or God created us in that state.

For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all. (Rom 11:32)
 
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Johnnz

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An individual can be both literal and archetype. Jesus as an historical person and Jesus as the second Adam on behalf of all humanity is an example. King David as a literal king but also representative of Royal King Jesus, Lord of all, would be another.

The most complete exegesis of the concept of individual and archetype I have come across is John Walton's book 'The Lost World of Adam and Eve'.

John
NZ
 
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Sabertooth

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The most complete exegesis of the concept of individual and archetype I have come across is John Walton's book 'The Lost World of Adam and Eve'.
Does that book acknowledge a literal Adam, Eve & Fall?
 
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