Santa Claus

[bigvman]

We let our kids believe in Santa until there were about 10-11. When they start asking the question - Is Santa real Dad?, that's when I started to have issues with letting the fantasy go on. I didn't want to say "Yes", because that's how I answer when they ask me about God. I want to speak the truth to my kids.

 

[PrudenceAnn]

I have no problem telling my five year old son about "Santa"... and it actually isn't a lie at all! It is an interpretation and retelling of the story of St. Nikolaus. I have actually used St. Nikolaus as an example of love in action.. as Jesus taught us. Gift wise, only his stocking and one gift are from "Santa"... He must thank everyone else individually that he got gifts from. This year, "Santa" bought him a wooden train track... In his prayers on Christmas Day, he thanked God for his train track, so the message seems to be getting through nicely. I have also told him that we give gifts on Christmas Day so that we can celebrate the very special gift that God gave to us (Jesus... But I figure you guys know this ).

I feel I must say... Didn't Jesus say that judgement is reserved for God... And that we should avoid it? I personally put this into action by not telling people they are going to hell... Just a thought.

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye." (Matthew 7:1-5 ESV)

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I have no problem telling my five year old son about "Santa"... and it actually isn't a lie at all! It is an interpretation and retelling of the story of St. Nikolaus. I have actually used St. Nikolaus as an example of love in action..

Are you saying he's Santa or something. I'm not getting how this dead person became a story about Santa.

as Jesus taught us. Gift wise, only his stocking and one gift are from "Santa"...

I've never seen this in the bible.

 

[PrudenceAnn]

Are you saying he's Santa or something. I'm not getting how this dead person became a story about Santa. I've never seen this in the bible.

No... I'm saying Satna is a mythological figure based on this Christian Saint. I am saying that, at least in the UK, the majority of children are told that Santa is coming, and that rather than deny my son the chance to have a relationship with his peers, I make sure I focus on the Christian message behind it. This is not dissimilar to celebrating the birth of the Christ on the 25th December. Christ wasn't born on the 25th December. This was a pagan festival before Constantine's conversion... Pagan holidays were adopted to ensure that the transition between paganism and Christianity was smooth in the Roman Empire. If we are to be logical about this... If one is saying that a figure based on a Christian Saint is a lie, one must also conclude that celebrating the birth of the Christ of the 25th of December is a lie...

I personally think people need to take a step back and see the difference between fact and truth. Something doesn't have to be factual in order to convery truth. This is what we do with the celebration of Christmas. We celebrate the timeless truth that the Christ was born to us, as opposed to the fact of when he was born. To refuse to extend this logic to other areas of life is somewhat hypocritical, I think...

You have never seen love in action in the Bible? So... Jesus isn't an excellent example of how one can live with love as the central tenet?

 

[Daddy Abe]

I think it might be possible to talk about Santa without lying.

Superman wears a cape and flies.
Superman wears his underpants on the outside.
Superman is strong and has X-ray vision.
Superman saves the world.
Superman is from the planet Krypton and Kryptonite is his weakness.

All of the above statements are true. They are not lies. They are just true statements about a fictional character.

I think you can have a bit of fun with these things for a few years with kids. And then when they're old enough to ask the inevitable question: "Is he real?" You just say "No, we just pretend he is for a bit of fun. So try and keep the game going with the other children."

I imagine round about that time the child would start asking questions about other charcters, including God and Jesus. That might be a good time to sit down and explain the differences between fact and fiction in their favorite stories:
Neil Armstrong: definitely REAL
Henry VIII: definitely REAL
Cinderella: definitely NOT REAL
Ghostbusters: definitely NOT REAL
Jesus, God, Moses etc: definitely REAL (though you will meet people who try to convince you otherwise.)
"The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe": fictional characters and a fantasy story to help you understand the true story about Jesus.
Robin Hood: fictional stories based on people who did really exist, and have become important folktales in our culture.

And so on.
And then hopefully the child will be able to fit the story of the real St. Nicholaus and the fictional Santa Claus into their new framework of understanding how story-telling works.

 

[JAM2b]

I've always told my kids that Santa isn't real, but that it is fun to pretend. We talk about Santa with them really knowing all along that it is imaginary. We also talked about the real Saint Nicolas. I didn't want to deprive them of Christmas fun, but I also did not want them to doubt me about God and Jesus when I had lied to them about Santa.

This prevented problems with them being upset if I couldn't afford as much for Christmas as I had in previous years. They understood it really came from me and depended on how much I could spend.

It's funny that I saw this thread today because for the very first time as a parent I have used the "Santa Clause is watching you" card to deter a bad behavior. My youngest child is 11. He has some special needs, and recently just broke his glasses by snapping them half in a fit of anger. I had to replace them, and I told him that if it happened again there would be no Christmas. I was able to say that I wasn't trying to be mean, but that is expensive and if I have to buy new glasses again there is a chance I won't have enough money to get Christmas presents. So, he understood that breaking his glasses has serious effects on our family and holiday.

 

[Mayzoo]

There is almost no correlation between Santa and St Nick.

St. Nick sacrificed his own money and his own time in the name of Jesus and love for others. Santa had elves to make all his toys and magic so he lost no time in delivering said gifts. He makes no sacrifice and makes no Christian correlation to his actions.

St. Nick emphasized caring for needy in the name of Jesus. Santa emphasizes being "good" for the sole reason of a personal reward.

St. Nicholas was a saint who emphasized Jesus, and loving/caring for others. Santa is lie used by many parents as an attempt at bribing their young children to behave during a hectic and stressful time (Holidays) for the parents.

To each their own. If a parent chooses to tell their child that Santa exists, I merely hope they can come to terms with the fact that they are lying. You cannot repent of a sin you deny committing. So many rationalize this lie away, and to rationalize sin away is never good. In fact, sin never goes away with rationalization.

 

[Mayzoo]

I've always told my kids that Santa isn't real, but that it is fun to pretend. We talk about Santa with them really knowing all along that it is imaginary. We also talked about the real Saint Nicolas. I didn't want to deprive them of Christmas fun, but I also did not want them to doubt me about God and Jesus when I had lied to them about Santa.

This prevented problems with them being upset if I couldn't afford as much for Christmas as I had in previous years. They understood it really came from me and depended on how much I could spend.

It's funny that I saw this thread today because for the very first time as a parent I have used the "Santa Clause is watching you" card to deter a bad behavior. My youngest child is 11. He has some special needs, and recently just broke his glasses by snapping them half in a fit of anger. I had to replace them, and I told him that if it happened again there would be no Christmas. I was able to say that I wasn't trying to be mean, but that is expensive and if I have to buy new glasses again there is a chance I won't have enough money to get Christmas presents. So, he understood that breaking his glasses has serious effects on our family and holiday.

Yeah, my kiddo has special needs as well, but by explaining reality to her, just as you explained to your son, it helps her mature into a responsible adult. I much prefer this to "be good in hopes of short term personal reward."

We have been through two pair of special glasses at over 200 bucks just for the lenses. It hurts the pocket book for sure.

 

[Albion]

The specifics mentioned in the OP seem unnecessary to me, but I agree with the idea of telling the kids that there is a Santa (or Santas if you insist. ).

The benefit far outweighs the worry about the justice of misleading them on such an inconsequential matter. Besides, the same people who say that they could never "lie" to their children do it all the time with other matters and excuse it as being for their own good. Think about it ('Where do babies come from?;' 'No Suzi, the injection won't hurt;' etc.)

 

[Mayzoo]

The specifics mentioned in the OP seem unnecessary to me, but I agree with the idea of telling the kids that there is a Santa (or Santas if you insist. ).

The benefit far outweighs the worry about the justice of misleading them on such an inconsequential matter. Besides, the same people who say that they could never "lie" to their children do it all the time with other matters and excuse it as being for their own good. Think about it ('Where do babies come from?;' 'No Suzi, the injection won't hurt;' etc.)

Do parents really tell their kids an injection won't hurt? And, do parents actually still lie to their kids about sex and babies? Sheesh......really?

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Do parents really tell their kids an injection won't hurt? And, do parents actually still lie to their kids about sex and babies? Sheesh......really?

Yes.

 

[Mayzoo]

Yes.

IMO, that is just asking for problems.

 

[Albion]

IMO, that is just asking for problems.

It works quite smoothly for millions of parents.

 

[Mayzoo]

If I told my child that a shot would not hurt, then it did, it would be one notch in the decline in their trust in me. Add to that notch lying to them about sex and babies and the decline continues. Add again lying about Santa, and the decline continues even more. Now with this example set, I can easily see this child justify lying to their parents when they get a bit older. After all why not? Do I believe it is working for millions of parents? Not in the slightest. These same parents are sitting around when their child becomes a teenager wondering why now their child sneaks out, does not trust them enough to tell what is going on in their lives, and lies to them constantly.

If a friend of mine lied to me three or four times, I may still be their friend on some level, but I would never be able to trust what they told me. How could I? Would you trust that friend at face value?

I guess I can see the down side of repeatedly lying to our kids. I cannot see any down side to being honest with them.

 

[Mayzoo]

I can see how this could easily progress...

1. "Is this shot going to hurt mom? No honey. Ouch!!" (They obviously know they were lied to).

2. "Where do babies come from dad? The stork".......all their friends laugh at them later.....

3. "Is Santa real mom? Of course he is". Again, all the friends laugh at them.......

4. "Is God real dad? Of course he is son." YEAH RIGHT......I am not taking my chances on this time it being the truth.............

5. "Son, where are you going? To spend the night at Bobbies"...(they will never know it is a senior party with lots of drugs and alcohol, and all the cool kids will be there, and heck lying is fine and no one gets hurt anyway...)


Verses:

1. "Is this shot going to hurt mom? Yes a little honey, but it is not optional...we have to sometimes endure a little pain. It will feel better very quickly. Well okay, if you say so."

2. "Where do babies come from dad?" (If the parents had been having age appropriate, escalating conversations with their child up to this point, then this conversation will be neither awkward or long.)

3. "Is Santa real mom? No honey, but he can be fun to pretend in and almost a thousand years there was a real man who did give away gifts to the needy in the name of Christ "(expand on this subject).

4. "Is God real dad? Of course he is son. Okay dad, thanks."

What are the negatives to the second scenario and why would any Christian choose the first?

 

[RDKirk]

When my son was maybe four he was entranced by automotive vehicles and had scads of the old Hot Wheels. When a commercial came on advertising a car dealership, it showed cars on a car carrier vehicle being brought to the dealership. My son pointed and cried out, "Cars and trucks!" I corrected him: "That's a car carrier." He said again, "Cars and trucks!" I said again, "That's a car carrier."

Then the announcer came on shouting, "Cars and trucks!"

My son just gave me a look.

Not very long after that, we were out at the park watching the local Forth of July fireworks display. Every time a bomb went off in the air, my son shouted, "Fireworks!"

Then he had a sudden fear that one of those glowing balls would fall down and hit him. I assured him that would never happen. No sooner than I spoke, a glowing ember actually did strike the ground about twenty feet away from where we sat.

My son just gave me a look.

 

[Mayzoo]

When my son was maybe four he was entranced by automotive vehicles and had scads of the old Hot Wheels. When a commercial came on advertising a car dealership, it showed cars on a car carrier vehicle being brought to the dealership. My son pointed and cried out, "Cars and trucks!" I corrected him: "That's a car carrier." He said again, "Cars and trucks!" I said again, "That's a car carrier."

Then the announcer came on shouting, "Cars and trucks!"

My son just gave me a look.

Not very long after that, we were out at the park watching the local Forth of July fireworks display. Every time a bomb went off in the air, my son shouted, "Fireworks!"

Then he had a sudden fear that one of those glowing balls would fall down and hit him. I assured him that would never happen. No sooner than I spoke, a glowing ember actually did strike the ground about twenty feet away from where we sat.

My son just gave me a look.

LOL. Kids are way more astute than we give them credit for most the time, and I swear my kid has the memory of an elephant. If I had a track record of lying to her, she would be astute enough to know it, and she has a long, long term memory. It is a sad thing for a parent to willfully damage the trust a child so easily and eagerly gives to their parents.

Kids are also usually smart enough to know when a parent was simply wrong vs lying to them. I doubt your kiddo figured you for a liar over what you mentioned.

 

[Albion]

If I told my child that a shot would not hurt, then it did, it would be one notch in the decline in their trust in me.

That might be so. Do I take it then, that you never verbally "soften the blow" in the way you describe unpleasant events your child is afraid of enduring?

Add to that notch

Oh, notch. For a split second there, I thought I read "add Scotch." That would be another way of approaching this, I suppose.

I guess I can see the down side of repeatedly lying to our kids. I cannot see any down side to being honest with them.

When it comes to the white lies that allow them to have many of the joyful experiences of youth, there's quite a big downside to depriving them of the fun of pretending and imagining. I'd even point out that it's scientifically proven that this kind of indulging in harmless fantasy, which is natural with the young, is intellectually stimulating to their mental development and therefore beneficial.

 

[Dave-W]

It works quite smoothly for millions of parents.

Only in the very short term. Eventually it leads to more problems than it solves.

 

[Albion]

Only in the very short term. Eventually it leads to more problems than it solves.

I really don't believe this.

In fact, I know no one who has ever said that he was deeply or permanently scarred by learning that there is no Santa Claus.