The Final Solution

[joshua 1 9]

We are told that two thirds of the "Jews" were killed in Europe as a part of the Nazi's final solution. Hitler in his book Mein Kampf writes: "Nature selects the best from an abundance of single elements and stamps them as fit to live and carry on the conservation of the species." Both Christians and Evolutionist tries to separate themselves from Hitler. After the war there was a wave of repentance in the Christian church for any involvement that they had with Hitler and his regime. Where was the repentance with science? Where was the repentance with evolutionists for their involvement in the final solution?

One aspect that never gets talked about is that there are people that consider the final solution to have some aspects of humanity or humanitarian. No doubt there was suffering from starvation and it was rather messy to clean up the dead bodies. So the solution was the death camps. It was a fast, effective way to kill huge numbers of people and dispose of the remains. Even they tried to keep people calm telling them that they were going to take a shower and the building was designed to look like a public shower. Even the tiles they used were the same tiles in the Hebrew public bath houses.

The final solution had two main components, effectively transporting people and effectively exterminating them when they arrived at the death camps. Still people ask why did they select the Hebrew people. Perhaps a part of that question is why was there a separation between Hebrew and NON Hebrew to the degree that they could be singled out and marked for extermination the way they were.

My father was in the Army and he was one of the first to see the death camps in Germany right after the war ended. He walked away from that with a attitude that he cared all his life that people need to be a productive part of society. They need to contribute in some way. In Germany there were death camps, but there were also work camps and people that were able to work and be productive did live and were given some food to keep them going.

So there are many aspects of this that needs further examination today.

 

[Goonie]

Post error.

 

[PsychoSarah]

We are told that two thirds of the "Jews" were killed in Europe as a part of the Nazi's final solution. Hitler in his book Mein Kampf writes: "Nature selects the best from an abundance of single elements and stamps them as fit to live and carry on the conservation of the species." Both Christians and Evolutionist tries to separate themselves from Hitler. After the war there was a wave of repentance in the Christian church for any involvement that they had with Hitler and his regime. Where was the repentance with science? Where was the repentance with evolutionists for their involvement in the final solution?

One aspect that never gets talked about is that there are people that consider the final solution to have some aspects of humanity or humanitarian. No doubt there was suffering from starvation and it was rather messy to clean up the dead bodies. So the solution was the death camps. It was a fast, effective way to kill huge numbers of people and dispose of the remains. Even they tried to keep people calm telling them that they were going to take a shower and the building was designed to look like a public shower. Even the tiles they used were the same tiles in the Hebrew public bath houses.

The final solution had two main components, effectively transporting people and effectively exterminating them when they arrived at the death camps. Still people ask why did they select the Hebrew people. Perhaps a part of that question is why was there a separation between Hebrew and NON Hebrew to the degree that they could be singled out and marked for extermination the way they were.

My father was in the Army and he was one of the first to see the death camps in Germany right after the war ended. He walked away from that with a attitude that he cared all his life that people need to be a productive part of society. They need to contribute in some way. In Germany there were death camps, but there were also work camps and people that were able to work and be productive did live and were given some food to keep them going.

So there are many aspects of this that needs further examination today.

DX oh why. For one thing, the Holocaust and other instances of persecution is why the Ashkenazi and many other groups associated with Judaism have a lot of genetic disorders, some only seen in those populations.

Secondly, the work camps were not the most efficient means of being productive; the food shoddy and often tainted by rot and disease.

Thirdly, they used the German census to find out who was Jewish primarily, as people selected their religion and ethnicity on them. Not outward appearance usually.

Lastly, eugenics doesn't work. Many of the traits we most desire our species to have are too complex to reliably use selective breeding to improve, such as intelligence.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Why is this in the C&E forum?
Shouldn't this belong somewhere else? Like Ethics and Morality?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Lastly, eugenics doesn't work. Many of the traits we most desire our species to have are too complex to reliably use selective breeding to improve, such as intelligence.

Which all goes to show that Darwin's theory is very questionable.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Which all goes to show that Darwin's theory is very questionable.

No it doesn't, because Darwin says nothing on eugenics.

 

[joshua 1 9]

No it doesn't, because Darwin says nothing on eugenics.

Hitler does talk about natural selection. There is no point in time when the "final solution" emerged. IT was a solution that slowly emerged over time. This also is not the first time the Hebrew people were attacked and persecuted. So this may appear to be a social issue. IF that is the case then why is science so influence by social issues. Why do the opinions of the masses have such an impact on science?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Why is this in the C&E forum?
Shouldn't this belong somewhere else? Like Ethics and Morality?

Why would Ethics and Morality has an impact on Science? It is suppose to be sterile and not impacted by that. Yet you seem to be admitting that science is influence by Ethics and Morality. How can we tell if Science is objective or just a reflection of popular opinions?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Hitler does talk about natural selection. There is no point in time when the "final solution" emerged. IT was a solution that slowly emerged over time. This also is not the first time the Hebrew people were attacked and persecuted. So this may appear to be a social issue. IF that is the case then why is science so influence by social issues. Why do the opinions of the masses have such an impact on science?

Hitler is not Darwin.
What Hitler used to make his case of the Final Solution was not science, but just the old-fashioned antisemitism that was rampant in Germany. Science was not involved, in any way.
And the opinions of the masses do not have an impact on science. If (as an example) the entire population of Great Britain thought that the Moon was made from cheese as shown in the Wallace and Gromit short-film, A Grand Day Out, science would still say that is made from rock.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Why would Ethics and Morality has an impact on Science? It is suppose to be sterile and not impacted by that. Yet you seem to be admitting that science is influence by Ethics and Morality. How can we tell if Science is objective or just a reflection of popular opinions?

Because you are talking about the ethic behind science. What does that have to do with the debate of Creation vs Evolution?

 

[bhsmte]

Why would Ethics and Morality has an impact on Science? It is suppose to be sterile and not impacted by that. Yet you seem to be admitting that science is influence by Ethics and Morality. How can we tell if Science is objective or just a reflection of popular opinions?

You are putting words in posters mouths.

 

[bhsmte]

Hitler does talk about natural selection. There is no point in time when the "final solution" emerged. IT was a solution that slowly emerged over time. This also is not the first time the Hebrew people were attacked and persecuted. So this may appear to be a social issue. IF that is the case then why is science so influence by social issues. Why do the opinions of the masses have such an impact on science?

Who cares what Hitler talked about.

It has no bearing on the the evidence for evolution.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Who cares what Hitler talked about.

It has no bearing on the the evidence for evolution.

It has a lot of bearing as to how much the theory of evolution is true and how much it is error. Although the topic is "the final solution". The theory of evolution was a part of that. But not exclusive. There is a lot more to it then that.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You are putting words in posters mouths.

The question is: "How can we tell if Science is objective or just a reflection of popular opinions?" Do you have an answer for the question?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Who cares what Hitler talked about.

It has no bearing on the the evidence for evolution.

The "final solution" has a LOT to do with evolution. They wiped out millions of people of our species. It has everything to do with the theory of selective or artificial breeding. Just like the slaves in south american were subject to selective breeding. That is very much one of the evolutionary theories. It was a part of Darwin's theory of natural selection.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The "final solution" has a LOT to do with evolution. They wiped out millions of people of our species. It has everything to do with the theory of selective or artificial breeding. Just like the slaves in south american were subject to selective breeding. That is very much one of the evolutionary theories. It was a part of Darwin's theory of natural selection.

Okay, I think I get what you are saying.
But you really should watch how you word things. From a cursory reading of the paragraph, it sounds like you're making the accusation that the Holocaust was something that Darwin explicitly felt should happen. Which it wasn't.
The Holocaust was a direct result of people applying a political agenda to science. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[bhsmte]

The question is: "How can we tell if Science is objective or just a reflection of popular opinions?" Do you have an answer for the question?

The scientific method, tends to put an emphasis on objectivity.

Of course, I highly doubt, the scientific theories you rely on every day of your life, when you do any of the following, are reliable, based on just popular opinion:

-the theory that allows you to post on your computer
-the theory that allows you to have light in your home
-the theory that allows you to watch television
-the theory that allows you to keep your house cool and warm
-the theory that allows you to keep food fresh in the fridge
-the theory that allows you to travel in a car
-the theory that allows you to get reliable medical treatment and testing

I am quite certain, science didn't base on the theories, that allow the above to work, on popular opinion.

 

[AV1611VET]

Perhaps a part of that question is why was there a separation between Hebrew and NON Hebrew to the degree that they could be singled out and marked for extermination the way they were.

As I understand it, the Jews were blamed for tainting bloodlines.

Jesus had perfect blood, but the Jews crucified Him, then went and intermixed with everyone else.

Scientific bologna at its worst.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

As I understand it, the Jews were blamed for tainting bloodlines.

Jesus had perfect blood, but the Jews crucified Him, then went and intermixed with everyone else.

Scientific bologna at its worst.

I highly doubt that was a scientific belief.
Germany had a history of antisemitism, not in the least bit helped by the writings of Martin Luther.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Which all goes to show that Darwin's theory is very questionable.

No, it doesn't. Just because we cannot breed "perfect" people does not mean evolution isn't valid. Perfect people just do not exist, and breeding for single traits leaves the population sickly.

You just probably never noticed that humans are more prone to genetic disease thanks to the evolutionary processes that made us smart. It gives more than it takes, but how much could be considered a tad subjective.