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Did God create man or did man create God?"

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Hoghead1

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I've always wondered, "What banged?" (if ya go for the "Big Bang" theory.)
Interesting question. According to the Big Bang, the universe originally existed as a tiny atom, then exploded outward. The scientists, to date, have no idea why. For me, I view the universe as the body of God, without which God would be unconscious. I believe consciousness necessitates he experience of complexity. Hence, he Big Bang was caused by God going from the total simplicity of his being, and therefore unconsciousness, into the vast complexity of creation, God as self-consciousness. However, I don't think there was ever a time when God was merely potential, purely unconscious. There was always some form of universe. Also, God's aim is to be creative. That means, God can only g so far with any one universe before it becomes tame,stale, an needs to end to make room for newer forms of creativity.
 
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Hoghead1

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There is another option, which is that God created human beings whose faith was such that it created a God: a closed loop.

Not that I believe this, but it's out there as a possibility.
I think that the universe and Gods are mutually interdependent, one cannot exist without the other. I view God as a social-relational being and thefore arises of his or her interactions with the world. Hence, the world creates God, just as God creates the world.
 
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Hoghead1

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As I just stated in the previous post...

We have an inumerable amount of examples of humans creating gods.
We have zero examples of gods doing anything at all - including simply "existing".
OK, but here is the problem: Many persons have reported direct, immediate experienced of God. They can't all be discounted. Next, all our concepts, however imaginative they may be, come from our experiences of reality. Human imagination is not very free. So if there is no God, were did the concept of God come form?
 
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bhsmte

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OK, but here is the problem: Many persons have reported direct, immediate experienced of God. They can't all be discounted. Next, all our concepts, however imaginative they may be, come from our experiences of reality. Human imagination is not very free. So if there is no God, were did the concept of God come form?

A psychological need to develop one.
 
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Hoghead1

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Fear has always created Gods.

If a God made us which God out of the hundreds out there was it? each country had it's own God so it makes sense that each country created it's own god, the Romans alone had hundreds of gods, they had gods for each individual feeling or happening, you name it and they had created a god to either protect yourself from it or get more of it.

There was a programme on TV the other day about Henry VIII where Cromwell came up with the idea of making Henry the head of the church of England just so he could divorce his wife and marry Anne Boleyn, the Catholic church was made the wrong religion to believe in over night and thousands were killed for not converting, a generation later it swung back the other way and tens of thousands of Protistants were killed for the same reason, which tells us that gods are just the tools of men.
Oops. It's Cranmer, not Cromwell. Oliver Cromwell didn't come along until the next century, when he set himself up as Lord Protector, after the king was beheaded. Also, Catholics and Protestants historically, shared the same view of God as he or she is in his or her real nature. Largely, his classical image was borrowed from Greek philosophy. It enshrined the immune and the immutable. God was assumed to be a statically complete perfection, wholly independent of the universe standing in no need of anything. God was said to be void of body, parts, passions, even compassion, totally immutable. In the 20th century theologians have challenged this model.
 
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StanMann

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Oops. It's Cranmer, not Cromwell. Oliver Cromwell didn't come along until the next century, when he set himself up as Lord Protector, after the king was beheaded. Also, Catholics and Protestants historically, shared the same view of God as he or she is in his or her real nature. Largely, his classical image was borrowed from Greek philosophy. It enshrined the immune and the immutable. God was assumed to be a statically complete perfection, wholly independent of the universe standing in no need of anything. God was said to be void of body, parts, passions, even compassion, totally immutable. In the 20th century theologians have challenged this model.
Sorry you're wrong, it was Thomas Cromwell not Oliver Cromwell.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cromwell
 
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StanMann

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OK, but here is the problem: Many persons have reported direct, immediate experienced of God. They can't all be discounted. Next, all our concepts, however imaginative they may be, come from our experiences of reality. Human imagination is not very free. So if there is no God, were did the concept of God come form?
How many people have reported being abducted by aliens? do you believe that some of them are telling the truth?

The idea of gods came from a need for protection from the unknown and the elements we faced every day and night,
we sacrificed everything from animals to babies to please the gods, they even launched ships over the bodies of slaves to try and get the gods to protect the ship from the dangers of the sea.
 
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jenny1972

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The irony of the term Big Bang is that it was small and there was no bang.

how do you know? atheists have absolute blind faith in scientific theories , theories put forward by humans who cannot know for sure what happened yet you atheists believe in it . how is that any different at all than the religions that you criticize ?
 
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jenny1972

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For you there is no problem because you don't even need to define what a god is before you believe he can do things,
the statement 'God created man' is meaningless without first defining what a God is, I would define a God as a non existing entity living in an imagined never never land that is outside and beyond existence, in other words totally made up.
You obviously do not see it that way at all because you don't want to, better to have an imagined God than no God at all.

how can you be so sure that God does not exist and has just not revealed Himself to you yet ? many people believe in God who do not believe in religion . many come to believe outside of religious indoctrination so how do you explain that ?
 
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jenny1972

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Of course they would because it's not what they want to believe.

belief is not a choice its a product of what you have been convinced of can you choose to believe in God ? force yourself to believe something you dont think is true . there is a reason why we believe in God why do you assume we are against truth everyone wants to believe in truth were just being honest we believe in God just like you are being honest about your views . If you have something to convince us that God does not exist then present it and we will become atheists whats holding you back ?
 
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justlookinla

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Depends on one's faith-based view. Those that deny God, deny God's creation, will never stop and consider that if they deny God, they deny their personal existence. They're simply a life form with no purpose. Yet they're always finding purpose, as seen by their efforts to promote humanity to a place of being simply another life form.

Their faith-based atheistic worldview is contradictory.
 
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AV1611VET

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There is another option, which is that God created human beings whose faith was such that it created a God: a closed loop.
It wouldn't last.

Ever heard of the Second Law of Thermodynamics?
 
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Foxhole87

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how do you know? atheists have absolute blind faith in scientific theories , theories put forward by humans who cannot know for sure what happened yet you atheists believe in it . how is that any different at all than the religions that you criticize ?
..she says, posting from a computer she personally (likely) can't break down to the transistor and explain the whole way up.
 
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Foxhole87

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It wouldn't last.

Ever heard of the Second Law of Thermodynamics?
Have you heard of this:

Sun-April62011.001.001.png


It completely refutes the objection creationists make with regards to the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
 
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AV1611VET

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I consider that among the most denigrating, disrespectful, pompous, and arrogant things a person can say with regards to an atheist.
You're welcome! :)

On the "lighter side",* I contend that there are no atheists in Hell.

Does that make you feel any better?

* Get it? "Lighter side"? (Nevermind.)
 
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Foxhole87

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You're welcome! :)

On the "lighter side",* I contend that there are no atheists in Hell.

Does that make you feel any better?

* Get it? "Lighter side"? (Nevermind.)
I managed to make it to and from Afghanistan without having my atheism thrown to the wind, and plenty of atheists have fought and died right next to Christians. I suggest you find yourself some perspective.
 
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AV1611VET

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Have you heard of this:

* pic of our sun *

It completely refutes the objection creationists make with regards to the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Have you heard of this:

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

And for the record, how did those angiosperms survive without the sun in Genesis 1?
 
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