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Animal Welfare

nebulaJP

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The following would indicate that the Bible teaches that humans are to have moral consideration for animals:

Under Jewish law, animals have some of the same rights as humans do. Animals rest on Shabbat, as humans do (Ex. 20:10). We are forbidden to muzzle an ox to prevent it from eating while it is working in the field (Deut. 25:4), just as we must allow human workers to eat from the produce they are harvesting (Deut. 23:25-26). Animals can partake of the produce from fields lying fallow during the sabbatical year (Ex. 23:11).

Several commandments demonstrate concern for the physical or psychological suffering of animals. We may not plow a field using animals of different species (Deut. 22:10), because this would be a hardship to the animals. We are required to relieve an animal of its burden, even if we do not like its owner, do not know its owner, or even if it is ownerless (Ex. 23:5; Deut. 22:4). We are not permitted to kill an animal in the same day as its young (Lev. 22:28), and are specifically commanded to send away a mother bird when taking the eggs (Deut 22:6-7), because of the psychological distress this would cause the animal. In fact, the Torah specifically says that a person who sends away the mother bird will be rewarded with long life, precisely the same reward that is given for honoring mother and father (Ex. 20:12; Deut. 5:16), and indeed for observing the whole Torah (Deut. 4:40). This should give some indication of the importance of this law.


According to the Bible, killing animals for their flesh/hides is fine, but you still have to have moral consideration for them. So, you will not find passages in the Bible about how rocks, dirt or plants are to be treated, but humans and animals are a different story.

In the modern factory farm, animals are kept in pretty horrible conditions. Take for example breeding sows, who are unable to even turn around in their gestation crates. I kayak and after sitting in one for a couple hours, it feels very good to get out of it and walk around. Spending my life in that position would be torture. That is pretty much the predicament these pigs are in. Would you keep a dog or cat confined in something like this its whole life?

In the verses above, I don’t see any caveats such as “as long as it doesn’t hurt your bottom line or drive up your prices too much….then treat animals in the following manner…” There are just some guidelines stipulating how animals are to be treated and the spirit of these guidelines is not being followed in our modern industrial system. There is no consideration for the animals' psychological wellbeing, and no consideration for their physical wellbeing beyond what is required to bring the flesh to market. The only consideration for how the animals are raised and housed is financial. There is no moral consideration for the animals at all, they are treated as mere commodities, no different than rocks, dirt or plants.

So, if you financially support this mistreatment by purchasing factory farmed animal products, how are you not in violation of the Bible’s commandments? Just because you are not the one mistreating the animals personally does not matter, just as a person who hires another to commit a crime is still guilty of that crime.
 

SkyWriting

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The following would indicate that the Bible teaches that humans are to have moral consideration for animals:

Under Jewish law, animals have some of the same rights as humans do. Animals rest on Shabbat, as humans do (Ex. 20:10). We are forbidden to muzzle an ox to prevent it from eating while it is working in the field (Deut. 25:4), just as we must allow human workers to eat from the produce they are harvesting (Deut. 23:25-26). Animals can partake of the produce from fields lying fallow during the sabbatical year (Ex. 23:11).

Several commandments demonstrate concern for the physical or psychological suffering of animals. We may not plow a field using animals of different species (Deut. 22:10), because this would be a hardship to the animals. We are required to relieve an animal of its burden, even if we do not like its owner, do not know its owner, or even if it is ownerless (Ex. 23:5; Deut. 22:4). We are not permitted to kill an animal in the same day as its young (Lev. 22:28), and are specifically commanded to send away a mother bird when taking the eggs (Deut 22:6-7), because of the psychological distress this would cause the animal. In fact, the Torah specifically says that a person who sends away the mother bird will be rewarded with long life, precisely the same reward that is given for honoring mother and father (Ex. 20:12; Deut. 5:16), and indeed for observing the whole Torah (Deut. 4:40). This should give some indication of the importance of this law.


According to the Bible, killing animals for their flesh/hides is fine, but you still have to have moral consideration for them. So, you will not find passages in the Bible about how rocks, dirt or plants are to be treated, but humans and animals are a different story.

In the modern factory farm, animals are kept in pretty horrible conditions. Take for example breeding sows, who are unable to even turn around in their gestation crates. I kayak and after sitting in one for a couple hours, it feels very good to get out of it and walk around. Spending my life in that position would be torture. That is pretty much the predicament these pigs are in. Would you keep a dog or cat confined in something like this its whole life?

In the verses above, I don’t see any caveats such as “as long as it doesn’t hurt your bottom line or drive up your prices too much….then treat animals in the following manner…” There are just some guidelines stipulating how animals are to be treated and the spirit of these guidelines is not being followed in our modern industrial system. There is no consideration for the animals' psychological wellbeing, and no consideration for their physical wellbeing beyond what is required to bring the flesh to market. The only consideration for how the animals are raised and housed is financial. There is no moral consideration for the animals at all, they are treated as mere commodities, no different than rocks, dirt or plants.

So, if you financially support this mistreatment by purchasing factory farmed animal products, how are you not in violation of the Bible’s commandments? Just because you are not the one mistreating the animals personally does not matter, just as a person who hires another to commit a crime is still guilty of that crime.

I believe none of this has anything to do with the animals. I'm confident these rules are for the benefit of the behavior of humans. There are no known rules for governing the handling of insects, worms or fish. Nor is it suggested that people should interfere with how animals interact with each other. So it seems the animals are not the concern.
 
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nebulaJP

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I believe none of this has anything to do with the animals. I'm confident these rules are for the benefit of the behavior of humans. There are no known rules for governing the handling of insects, worms or fish. Nor is it suggested that people should interfere with how animals interact with each other. So it seems the animals are not the concern.

If the rules were about how to treat rocks or soil, would they have benefited human behavior? How does human behavior benefit by "being nice" to something that does not deserve moral consideration?
 
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SkyWriting

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If the rules were about how to treat rocks or soil, would they have benefited human behavior? How does human behavior benefit by "being nice" to something that does not deserve moral consideration?

You were the one who said animals treated poorly results in people with bad manners.
Yet we step on ants and kill millions of germs with mouthwash daily.
I imagine Jesus even stepped on an insect or two.
 
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nebulaJP

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You were the one who said animals treated poorly results in people with bad manners.
Yet we step on ants and kill millions of germs with mouthwash daily.
I imagine Jesus even stepped on an insect or two.

When did I say that?

The Bible teaches that humans are to have moral consideration for animals. The verses are above. You said these are for the benefit of human behavior. How do the rules benefit human behavior?
 
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Mountain_Girl406

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The catechism of the Catholic Church speaks to this as well, speaking our against the unnecessary harming of animals. I take this to support veganism in my case because it's clear to me after many , many years that animal products aren't necessary for me.
 
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nebulaJP

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The catechism of the Catholic Church speaks to this as well, speaking our against the unnecessary harming of animals. I take this to support veganism in my case because it's clear to me after many , many years that animal products aren't necessary for me.

Animal products shouldn't be necessary for anyone living in an agricultural society, except in the case of some extremely rare medical conditions.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

But people would rather listen to their grandparents/parents/conventional wisdom than modern nutritional research. Here is something grandma didn't know: iceberg lettuce contains protein! In fact, there isn't a single whole plant food that doesn't contain protein and saturated fat.
 
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nebulaJP

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You were the one who said animals treated poorly results in people with bad manners.
Yet we step on ants and kill millions of germs with mouthwash daily.
I imagine Jesus even stepped on an insect or two.

Treating livestock poorly is in violation of the Bible's commandments.

Germs are not worthy of moral consideration.

Stepping on an insect unintentionally is not a moral issue. Stepping on one intentionally just to amuse yourself would be a moral failure in my book.
 
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nebulaJP

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The fastest way to reach Hell is to be cruel to God's creations. One does not simply be indifferent about animals and not expect the Divine Maker.

Meat from humanely raised animals takes effort to procure and most people, including most Christians, do not go to the trouble and/or they are unwilling to spend the extra money for the more humanely raised products if that option is available.
 
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Crowns&Laurels

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Meat from humanely raised animals takes effort to procure and most people, including most Christians, do not go to the trouble and/or they are unwilling to spend the extra money for the more humanely raised products if that option is available.

They need to, if they haven't already, outlaw the bleeding of cows over grates after slitting their throat, or boiling pigs alive. A lot of corporations have adopted the use of bolt guns which instantly kill animals without pain, which should be standard and after living peacefully in roomy and comfortable conditions.
 
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danielkibby

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This is a tough one that for most people comes under the principal of out of sight out of mind. Before Levitical laws for cleanliness, preparation and consideration of animals, God said man rules over animals gen 1:26. When I look at the things people were later asked to do, things that may be obvious to us now it brings to light how much God was trying wipe our butts for us throughout most of the Old Testament. He clearly put a conscience in us to discern right from wrong but still he had to give us the 10 commandments because we weren't able to behave.

Short of killing our own food to be sure it is treated properly there is little we can do. I had a friend who watched a film called earthlings and went vegan after seeing how animals were treated. I knew a guy who was part of brahma kumaris and was vegetarian because he said to ingest an animal that had suffered meant taking on that animals pain and suffering. I have no plans to stop eating meat and I don't plan to start slaughtering my own food either, so I guess from the perspective of the thread starter I'm part of the problem as a posed to the solution.

There were lots of good people who died and continue to die and they will be judged and have the chance to enter Heaven or go the other way. But where do animals go?
Do they have souls?

If they live on the instincts that God put in them then they cannot discern right from wrong, so if they do have souls whether they died well or badly they'd go straight to heaven with nothing to judge.

When you see Jesus healing on the sabbath and other things he did outside of Jewish custom the same moral laws could be applied. We need to eat so that overrides how animals are killed or kept.
 
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nebulaJP

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But I like the way steak tastes!

At the farmer's market on Saturday, the small, independent cattle-ranchers sell the beef from the cattle they raise. These small-farm cows live better lives and are better for you than the factory farm cows. You can also get this at grocery stores in the form of small farm co-op brands.
 
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Ana the Ist

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At the farmer's market on Saturday, the small, independent cattle-ranchers sell the beef from the cattle they raise. These small-farm cows live better lives and are better for you than the factory farm cows. You can also get this at grocery stores in the form of small farm co-op brands.


You might be able to...I can't. My grocery store offers meat raised without any growth hormones or steroids...but last time I checked it wasn't cruelty-free. I could be wrong...and I'll take another look...but I'm fairly certain it isn't. There's no "farmer's market" either. That said...

I love animals, I really do. I donate every year to the local animal protection center. I donate every time I have to stop at the pet store to pick up supplies for my wife's guinea pig. When her last guinea pig got a respiratory infection, I spent a whopping 700+$ trying to get him well. We ended up extending his life by a few months probably...but ultimately he succumbed. I'm just mentioning this because I want you to understand that I love animals...I'm not just saying that...

However, when it comes to my food...my love is in short supply. I don't like lobster, the taste or the fact that they get boiled alive, but that's about it. I don't like the cruelty that food animals endure...but it doesn't really bother me either. It's an animal that's destined for my plate. Making it comfortable doesn't somehow negate the fact that I want it dead so I can eat it. It strikes me as a rather odd moral proposition.
 
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nebulaJP

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When you see Jesus healing on the sabbath and other things he did outside of Jewish custom the same moral laws could be applied. We need to eat so that overrides how animals are killed or kept.

I wouldn't extrapolate that the verses in OP are nullified due to that. This is nothing like healing on the Sabbath. Would Jesus castrate a sheep with no anesthesia (as is done to animals on factory farms)? Jesus said the good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. Those two things really aren't comparable.
 
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nebulaJP

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However, when it comes to my food...my love is in short supply. I don't like lobster, the taste or the fact that they get boiled alive, but that's about it. I don't like the cruelty that food animals endure...but it doesn't really bother me either. It's an animal that's destined for my plate. Making it comfortable doesn't somehow negate the fact that I want it dead so I can eat it. It strikes me as a rather odd moral proposition.

As an atheist, that is your prerogative. I am arguing that Christians are compelled by scripture to make it comfortable whether they want to or not.
 
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Ana the Ist

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As an atheist, that is your prerogative. I am arguing that Christians are compelled by scripture to make it comfortable whether they want to or not.

I honestly thought this thread was more about finding a reason (any reason) to be vegetarian/vegan and you were taking the whole scripture angle because this is a christian forums

My mistake. Good luck with your thread
 
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Mountain_Girl406

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This is a tough one that for most people comes under the principal of out of sight out of mind. Before Levitical laws for cleanliness, preparation and consideration of animals, God said man rules over animals gen 1:26. When I look at the things people were later asked to do, things that may be obvious to us now it brings to light how much God was trying wipe our butts for us throughout most of the Old Testament. He clearly put a conscience in us to discern right from wrong but still he had to give us the 10 commandments because we weren't able to behave.

Short of killing our own food to be sure it is treated properly there is little we can do. I had a friend who watched a film called earthlings and went vegan after seeing how animals were treated. I knew a guy who was part of brahma kumaris and was vegetarian because he said to ingest an animal that had suffered meant taking on that animals pain and suffering. I have no plans to stop eating meat and I don't plan to start slaughtering my own food either, so I guess from the perspective of the thread starter I'm part of the problem as a posed to the solution.

There were lots of good people who died and continue to die and they will be judged and have the chance to enter Heaven or go the other way. But where do animals go?
Do they have souls?

If they live on the instincts that God put in them then they cannot discern right from wrong, so if they do have souls whether they died well or badly they'd go straight to heaven with nothing to judge.

When you see Jesus healing on the sabbath and other things he did outside of Jewish custom the same moral laws could be applied. We need to eat so that overrides how animals are killed or kept.
We need to eat, yes, but most of us don't need to eat meat.
 
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