2 more school (college) shootings right now. Texas and Arizona.

[Mountain_Girl406]

What are those issues?

Since I'm now typing on a phone, I'll request you see my previous post where I listed some that the community is facing.

 

[SolomonVII]

Post 212 demonstrates that your community does not have a clue why this is happening.
We all have weather.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Post 212 demonstrates that your community does not have a clue why this is happening.
We all have weather.

I didn't realize that was the only thing I listed, or that SAD applied everywhere in the world equally.
I also listed bullying, and our communities reputation for being a tough, something we've been known to take pride in, but something that instills in our young people the notion that it isn't tough to ask for help.
But our community is suffering, and if you have the answers, you would be more than welcome to help. I'll send you articles about what the community is doing to address this, task forces, counselors, school programs, mental health initiatives and so on. If you have valuable insight to offer these people that will help, it would be very welcome.

 

[Erose]

Access to firearms is a risk factor for suicide, one of many. Nobody is chasing magic talismans or saying that this or that piece of gum legislation will cure all of the nation's ills. There are a lot of little things that we need to do and employing stronger firearms laws is only a portion of it. It should not balm our consciences that a country like South Korea with little Christian influence and a long tradition of seeing suicide as a somewhat noble method to exit life has a higher suicide rate than we do. Of course they do.

Until evidence is shown, and this country displays the ability to enforce what laws on the books, this discussion is a waste of time.

Gun registration and for that matter gun restriction isn't going to stop people from killing others or themselves. There is zero evidence that it will. So I've said my peace, and I am tired of beating my head against the wall.

 

[Erose]

Personally, I'm finding the attempt to minimize gun suicides by pointing to other methods pathetic.

It's like minimizing the abuse in our own Church by saying, 'but protestants molest children too!'

What is pathetic is trying to blame an inanimate object on suicides.

 

[MikeK]

Until evidence is shown, and this country displays the ability to enforce what laws on the books, this discussion is a waste of time.

Gun registration and for that matter gun restriction isn't going to stop people from killing others or themselves. There is zero evidence that it will. So I've said my peace, and I am tired of beating my head against the wall.

Very well, trust is your own wisdom. I will choose to agree with the Bishops of Christ's Church on this moral issue.

 

[Erose]

I didn't realize that was the only thing I listed, or that SAD applied everywhere in the world equally.
I also listed bullying, and our communities reputation for being a tough, something we've been known to take pride in, but something that instills in our young people the notion that it isn't tough to ask for help.
But our community is suffering, and if you have the answers, you would be more than welcome to help. I'll send you articles about what the community is doing to address this, task forces, counselors, school programs, mental health initiatives and so on. If you have valuable insight to offer these people that will help, it would be very welcome.

I don't know how small your community is; but if you would like I would recommend you evaluate what extracurricular activities your community has, and is there outlets for the kids. Suicide is normally a result of depression. Depression is a chemical imbalance but can be induced by other factors such as excessive chronic boredom and/or feelings of worthlessness.

Usually in small communities extracurricular activities are limited, and are normally sports related. Sadly a lot of kids are not athletic enough to make a team, much less participate. So these kids are left to themselves and fall through the cracks. Starting a program that targets these kids can go a long way to helping these kids.

A perfect after school program IMO is archery. It doesn't matter how strong or fast or pretty you are to be competitive.

I've have been a coach volunteer for 16 years now and out of all the sports I have coached, archery is by far the most balanced and most inclusive. Seriously a girl in a wheelchair if she puts in the time could beat a fully healthy boy.

But on the flip side it can be whatever, as long as you engage kids and give them something to do and a long term goal.

It's hard to imagine someone commuting suicide when they have dreams of shooting in the Olympics, if you know what I mean.

 

[Erose]

Very well, trust is your own wisdom. I will choose to agree with the Bishops of Christ's Church on this moral issue.

Ok. Like we discussed before how? You haven't answered that question yet have you? How is registered guns going to stop violence?

 

[MikeK]

Terence Tootoo isn't sure he agrees with that assesment.

 

[MikeK]

Ok. Like we discussed before how? You haven't answered that question yet have you? How is registered guns going to stop violence?

I answered that question several times. People who have access to guns will sometimes commit crimes that they wouldn't have without said guns. Some would-be criminals, if we had across-the-board background checks and registration, would be caught prior to committing their crime and either punished or given the help they need. People who traffic in the illegal sales of guns would find their jobs exceptionally harder, as the guns will for the first time have an uninterrupted paper trail.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

I don't know how small your community is; but if you would like I would recommend you evaluate what extracurricular activities your community has, and is there outlets for the kids. Suicide is normally a result of depression. Depression is a chemical imbalance but can be induced by other factors such as excessive chronic boredom and/or feelings of worthlessness.

Usually in small communities extracurricular activities are limited, and are normally sports related. Sadly a lot of kids are not athletic enough to make a team, much less participate. So these kids are left to themselves and fall through the cracks. Starting a program that targets these kids can go a long way to helping these kids.

A perfect after school program IMO is archery. It doesn't matter how strong or fast or pretty you are to be competitive.

I've have been a coach volunteer for 16 years now and out of all the sports I have coached, archery is by far the most balanced and most inclusive. Seriously a girl in a wheelchair if she puts in the time could beat a fully healthy boy.

But on the flip side it can be whatever, as long as you engage kids and give them something to do and a long term goal.

It's hard to imagine someone commuting suicide when they have dreams of shooting in the Olympics, if you know what I mean.

We have a surprising amount of good extracurricular activities for our size town and climate. In fact my kids both have Olympic goals. .in skiing.
We've got scouting and a big indoor archery range. I've gotten my kids involved in historical archery a bit also. More is better, but our community is good in that regard.

 

[Armoured]

Call me cynical but it dosnt seem to be coincidence anymore.

Problem, reaction, solution

You create the problem (mass shootings)
You engineer the reaction (media)
You offer the solution (gun control)

Once gun control is in effect the mass shootings will subside because the government wont be causing the problem.

How is the government causing the problem, exactly?

 

[MikeK]

Call me cynical but it dosnt seem to be coincidence anymore.

Problem, reaction, solution

You create the problem (mass shootings)
You engineer the reaction (media)
You offer the solution (gun control)

Once gun control is in effect the mass shootings will subside because the government wont be causing the problem.

Right. It's a conspiracy.

 

[MikeK]

I blame Jade Helm.

 

[Armoured]

Big push for gun control then
Sudden increase in mass shootings.... very convenient

...really?

 

[SolomonVII]

I didn't realize that was the only thing I listed, or that SAD applied everywhere in the world equally.
I also listed bullying, and our communities reputation for being a tough, something we've been known to take pride in, but something that instills in our young people the notion that it isn't tough to ask for help.
But our community is suffering, and if you have the answers, you would be more than welcome to help. I'll send you articles about what the community is doing to address this, task forces, counselors, school programs, mental health initiatives and so on. If you have valuable insight to offer these people that will help, it would be very welcome.

I know what you listed. I referred to the post number to show what I was aware of.

What I am saying is that listing a whole bunch of possible causes in no way deals with the specifics of why individuals, Johnny or Jane and Percival, killed themselves.
People half way around the world have no access to these specifics. We can speak in generalities, but if even the community does not know the specifics around each of the individual cases, then who does?
And without getting down to the specifics of exactly why each of the individual children blew their brains out, it is all hit and miss as far as any solution goes.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

I know what you listed. I referred to the post number to show what I was aware of.

What I am saying is that listing a whole bunch of possible causes in no way deals with the specifics of why individuals, Johnny or Jane and Percival, killed themselves.
People half way around the world have no access to these specifics. We can speak in generalities, but if even the community does not know the specifics around each of the individual cases, then who does?
And without getting down to the specifics of exactly why each of the individual children blew their brains out, it is all hit and miss as far as any solution goes.

What I'm saying is that the community at large is working to get a handle on what is happening and why. Of course people involved know the specifics of the individual cases and are working to relate that knowledge to the bigger picture of prevention. Being dismissive of that, or suggesting it isn't worth looking for a solution because not enough can be known is not helpful.
No one is claiming that guns cause people to be suicidal, but while people are working to address the why, lowering the risk by keeping guns out of the hands of suicidal folks and young kids is a prudent step.
Many years ago, a friend came to me with an arm load of weapons, mainly guns and knives. She'd been struggling with suicidal thoughts and thought until she could see her doctor and get her meds straightened out, she best get them out of her house. She asked me to lock them up and not let her have them.
If I followed the advice of some here, I guess I should have said "no, guns and knives being easy to access aren't a risk or anything. .keep em! "
I took them, stashed them away, and she got help. She's still doing well decades later.

So here's my takeaway on all this. You work to find the causes for suicide in children and adults and address the problem at the cause. At the same time, one can recognize that while guns don't cause suicide, they can increase the likelihood of successful suicide attempts especially among children. In fact, the data are clear that having guns in the home is a net risk overall.

We have rules of many sorts in place to protect kids from getting into things they aren't mature enough to handle. We don't encourage driving, sexual activities or drinking among those too immature to make good choices. However, guns seem to get a pass, with some thinking that these children who can't be trusted with the car keys or the keys to the liquor cabinet are just fine being trusted around guns. Not only youth suicides, but also every occurrence of a child accidentally shooting themselves or others points to their unreadiness.

 

[Armoured]

Yes

OK. So, what, you think all these mass shooters are government agents? How does it work?

 

[Erose]

Very well, trust is your own wisdom. I will choose to agree with the Bishops of Christ's Church on this moral issue.

Sigh... Look Mike I'm not against background checks, and gun registration. What I'm saying is why worry about it. I feel like a broken record here, but the government cannot enforce the existing laws, how on earth do you expect them to enforce another law or two?

The only avenue that I think a law would work is in improving our mental healthcare system, which the bishops called for as well.

 

[Erose]

We have a surprising amount of good extracurricular activities for our size town and climate. In fact my kids both have Olympic goals. .in skiing.
We've got scouting and a big indoor archery range. I've gotten my kids involved in historical archery a bit also. More is better, but our community is good in that regard.

That's good, and hopefully your kids reach their goals.