2 more school (college) shootings right now. Texas and Arizona.

[Erose]

It's not as if we don't work to prevent poisoning, or that our suicide rate is lower than some other countries. Neither of those should prevent us from doing something about gun deaths.A 5th grade child, same age as my son, committed suicide in our community last week. The fact that some other country has a bigger problem is no comfort and will not factor in to how I share this news with my sons.
It may be useful to note that in our small county, with one of the countries highest suicide rates, all of the children who committed suicide in the past year used a gun.

Do you think that having no access to a gun would have steered them away from suicide?

You want to help these people, it requires helping fix the problem. Quite frankly the approach you propose is like someone wanting to stop drunk driving by doing away with all the roads they can drive on.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

It's called education, but you will never get rid of accidental deaths, and if someone wants to kill themselves they aren't going to change their minds if they don't have access to a gun. So no it isn't something to consider, unless you want to wrap everyone up in impervious bubble wrap.

I don't think that's true when it comes to young children committing suicide. I think like many things children do, it's impulsive and not really thought out. But easy access to a gun gives them a chance to rashly take that step before parents and other supportive people can intervene. The lack of easy access to a gun could have prevented many of the child suicides our community is dealing with.

 

[Erose]

Except that cleaners, bridges and cars are pretty necessary, and I can do my best to observe good safety practices without rendering them useless. In my opinion, guns in the house aren't necessary, but if one argues they are for self defense against that home invasion, then they must be kept quickly and easily accessible or else be useless.
With cars, we don't allow children to drive, yet were supposed to trust even the youngest around an unsecured weapon? We keep chemicals locked away from kids, but guns on the nightstand or under the bed? Yet if you suggest registering guns like cars, and requiring gun users to be licensed and over 15, you get pushback. If you propose safety devices that only allow the owner to fire the gun, you might even get death threats from some gun enthusiasts. Nobody threatened the person who invented child locks for cabinets, or thinks it's a restriction of freedom that six year olds can't drive.

Guns aren't necessary until you need one.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Is there a link you can provide Mountain Girl? I have been looking on the net and can't find anything. I was wondering if he was bullied or something else.

I'll find one, but since it just happened, they aren't releasing many details.

 

[Erose]

I don't think that's true when it comes to young children committing suicide. I think like many things children do, it's impulsive and not really thought out. But easy access to a gun gives them a chance to rashly take that step before parents and other supportive people can intervene. The lack of easy access to a gun could have prevented many of the child suicides our community is dealing with.

Evidence? Seriously you think it's easier to put a gun in your mouth and pull a trigger, than to jump off a bridge or overdose? This lot easier to overdose and a lot less painful I would imagine.

 

[Erose]

Mountain girl I feel for your community, I really do. Does your community have any idea why they have such a high suicide rate? Are they doing anything to address the root causes of such high levels of depression in your community?

 

[Michie]

Ok, thanks! I'd appreciate it. Have you found a way to talk to your boys yet?

I'll find one, but since it just happened, they aren't releasing many details.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Guns aren't necessary until you need one.

For what? What are the odds that an unsecured gun will save your life, vs. taking the life of you or a family member? What other. safer options are their for home defense?

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Ok, thanks! I'd appreciate it. Have you found a way to talk to your boys yet?

I'll send via pm in a bit

 

[Michie]

Thanks!

I'll send via pm in a bit

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Evidence? Seriously you think it's easier to put a gun in your mouth and pull a trigger, than to jump off a bridge or overdose? This lot easier to overdose and a lot less painful I would imagine.

The only evidence is that all youth suicides in our community in the last year have been by gunshot. Maybe kids don't know enough to choose the right meds, and some are too young to drive to a bridge.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Mountain girl I feel for your community, I really do. Does your community have any idea why they have such a high suicide rate? Are they doing anything to address the root causes of such high levels of depression in your community?

There are theories, bullying, the weather, the reputation our town has of being extremely tough, which may lead some to not want to admit needing help, the large number of guns, etc. My son's school has begun what seems to be an effective anti bullying program and the town is trying to address other issues.

 

[Erose]

For what? What are the odds that an unsecured gun will save your life, vs. taking the life of you or a family member? What other. safer options are their for home defense?

Since a gun hasn't taken the life of one of my family members and won't because they have been educated, I would say the odds are in my favor. Look if you want to live a life of chance go ahead. I travel...a lot; and thus when I am gone my family has the means of protecting themselves. Grant home invasions around where I live is rare; primarily because criminals know that most homes have gun owners living in them. But they do happen.

Anyway if you don't want a firearm, don't buy one. Just don't get on a high horse about your neighbor's owning them.

 

[Erose]

There are theories, bullying, the weather, the reputation our town has of being extremely tough, which may lead some to not want to admit needing help, the large number of guns, etc. My son's school has begun what seems to be an effective anti bullying program and the town is trying to address other issues.

Ok so a few questions for you then, do you have any evidence that a firearm convinced someone to kill themselves? Do you think the kids came across a firearm and said to themselves: "Hey wouldn't it be cool to kill myself with this gun!"? Or do you think that the firearm was a tool used by the child to follow up on the intent to kill themselves? And if they didn't have access to a gun do you think they would have said, "Nah not cool to kill myself with overdosing on pills."?

Me personally from what I have seen from the anti-bullying campaign in my kids lives is that it is being counter productive, and cause even more stress in children. The campaign has basically made every child a bully and a victim.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

I think they are going through a period of deep distress, and they think about killing themselves and know where mom and dad keep the gun. I doubt many 5th graders would know what combination of pills would be fatal, or which cleaning chemicals and at what doses. Heck, I don't know what things I have in my house medicine wise would be fatal if overdosed on.

Ok so a few questions for you then, do you have any evidence that a firearm convinced someone to kill themselves? Do you think the kids came across a firearm and said to themselves: "Hey wouldn't it be cool to kill myself with this gun!"? Or do you think that the firearm was a tool used by the child to follow up on the intent to kill themselves? And if they didn't have access to a gun do you think they would have said, "Nah not cool to kill myself with overdosing on pills."?

Me personally from what I have seen from the anti-bullying campaign in my kids lives is that it is being counter productive, and cause even more stress in children. The campaign has basically made every child a bully and a victim.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

I don't think there's any amount of education that would give a young child the knowledge and judgement required to be safe around loaded firearms. A kid has to be 15 to drive, parents usually wait until they are around 12 or so to leave them home alone, and one is usually 14 or so before they are able to go out and get a job. Yet we think we can teach a curious toddler to be safe around guns with just the right education. It doesn't make sense to me..seems much more reasonable to keep guns locked if there are kids in the house. Then again a gun in the gun safe isn't very useful in the home invasion. That's why the statistics matter to me...and they support that an easily accessible gun is more likely to be harmful than lifesaving.

Since a gun hasn't taken the life of one of my family members and won't because they have been educated, I would say the odds are in my favor. Look if you want to live a life of chance go ahead. I travel...a lot; and thus when I am gone my family has the means of protecting themselves. Grant home invasions around where I live is rare; primarily because criminals know that most homes have gun owners living in them. But they do happen.

Anyway if you don't want a firearm, don't buy one. Just don't get on a high horse about your neighbor's owning them.

 

[tadoflamb]

There's more than mass murders to consider, though, there are also suicides, including those of children who got their hands on a parents gun, and accidental shootings.

I also consider general obnoxious behavior by gun owners.

Stuff like shooting at dark in crowded dispersal camping areas.

Trashing our public lands with wildcat shooting.

Poaching.

Excessive displays of weaponry in public restaurants,

Wildcat shooting areas next to busy highways.

Invitations to move to another country if you don't like their obnoxious behavior.

I think it's all symptomatic of the sickness of gun culture.

It never used to be this way.

 

[tadoflamb]

Praying for everyone involved! It's tough to have to experience this in your city, neighborhood, families... Let's continue to shine as Christ in such a fallen and dark world. If anyone wants to talk about this tragic situation because it's effected you, please know you're not alone and that I'll be here to chat.

Thanks, I appreciate that. It's really sad going through the kind of incidents we suffered in January of 2011. What was almost equally dismaying was the reaction from the gun crowd and the subsequent rise in sales of Glocks and high capacity magazines.

I remember the Sunday after the shooting. My wife and I went to a late night candle light mass at a parish we sometimes attend. We were stunned and in need of consolation, but the message of the pastor was "where did this come from?", and in his own way made us all consider how we all contribute to this culture of death. Even those of us who chose not to own arms.

This Sunday wasn't any different. In our examination of conscience, in light of the events of the past week, our pastor invited us to consider how all of our selfish decisions have negative impacts on others. I had to consider mine, but on the other hand it came to mind those Christians among us who consider the victims of gun violence a necessary by product of their freedoms.

These are strange days indeed.

 

[tadoflamb]

Got it Tad, every gun-owner in your opinion is a criminal.

Actually what I said, is every criminal who owns a gun got it from a legal gun owner.

While it should be criminal, it's being done legally.

You'd think responsible gun owners would be the most adamant about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, but instead they want to keep the status quo, which involves the flow of firearms going unchecked into the hands of criminals. And all this because they're whining about some perceived infringement on their rights.

Forget about every one else's right to the pursuit life, liberty and happiness. Let the body count rise.

 

[Erose]

I don't think there's any amount of education that would give a young child the knowledge and judgement required to be safe around loaded firearms. A kid has to be 15 to drive, parents usually wait until they are around 12 or so to leave them home alone, and one is usually 14 or so before they are able to go out and get a job. Yet we think we can teach a curious toddler to be safe around guns with just the right education. It doesn't make sense to me..seems much more reasonable to keep guns locked if there are kids in the house. Then again a gun in the gun safe isn't very useful in the home invasion. That's why the statistics matter to me...and they support that an easily accessible gun is more likely to be harmful than lifesaving.

Sorry I haven't seen any evidence to support the wild claims that you are making. The number one and two causes of accidental deaths of children by far is getting run over and drowning. Most suicides of young teens is from suffocation not guns. Older teens yes prefer firearms, but suffocation is not that far behind though.

So if you want to save lives get rid of cars and swimming pools.