2 more school (college) shootings right now. Texas and Arizona.

[Fantine]

You're not missing a thing! Thanks for adding some wisdom to an American citizenry clearly lacking it.

 

[stray bullet]

It does seem strange that these things happen with such frequency now. Is the media producing copycats?

Yes. Want to be famous? You know what to do.

 

[Erose]

Lord have mercy!

I understand this is a purely political/social opinion, and I sincerely hope not to offend, I'm just perplexed (I've never written about this subject before but I feel safer from the risk of being bombarded in a christian forum)... but as an Australian I don't understand the resistance to restricting guns in America? I don't get how carrying a deadly weapon with the capacity to kill so easily is considered a right?

My country had a tragic mass shooting in the 90s, I think 35 people died and 23 wounded- the Port Arthur Massacre. The government implemented restrictions on automatic weapons, introduced a registry, rolled out a gun buy-back scheme and our homicide by firearm rates when down by 43% in 7 years. And we have amongst the lowest homicide by firearm rates in the world. I'm not a huge fan on PM Howard but I'm proud of that achievement.

I understand that the scale of gun ownership in the US makes the extent of the Australian reforms unviable in the US, but I do believe it goes to prove something. You can blame the mentally ill, environmental triggers, culture, social issues, vulnerable people, etc all you want but problems like those take decades to remedy and in interim more people are going to die, not just in mass shootings but gun homicides in general (which the US has one the highest of).

Forgive me, but it seems crazy, is it because of the NRA influence over politics in US or is gun ownership a generally popular thing amongst the average american? <- real question

I don't understand when I see US news anchors saying "that if more people had guns at 'said mass shooting location' less or no people would have been murdered." That doesn't even make sense on its own, nor does it do anything to address the fact that potential mass killers are getting guns with ease.

The way I see it is, there is no compelling reason (except maybe leisure/hunting, etc which even then I don't agree) that an average person should have a gun.

More deadly weapons in circulation = more deaths by deadly weapons
Less deadly weapons in circulation = less deaths by deadly weapons

Maybe someone could help me understand something I'm missing..

God bless

Here is a couple of reasons:

1) if you do not have the ability to defend yourself from someone else, then you need to ask yourself are you truly free? Obviously in Australia and other countries that have taken away people's right to defend themselves your perceived freedom is really a farce and nothing more. Granted living a lie as long as you government or for that matter a common criminal doesn't mess with you is fine and dandy. But the day if it ever occurs you loose that facade of freedom that really don't have.
2) Firearms are the great equalizer. What is the odds of an old lady winning against a young man in a knife fight? In most cases the odds are zero. That same old lady has a gun in her purse, the odds of her protecting herself has gone up significantly. Even if it is against a young man with a gun as well.

The reason why the second amendment exists is to help protect the citizenry from an oppressive government. Back then it would have been possible to do so as there was little difference between privately own guns vs military arms. Obviously that ship has sailed since citizens normally don't have access to tanks, artillery, bombers, etc. The one ship that is still in dock though is an individual deciding to take your freedom, by stealing, raping, killing. That at least there is a more level playing field. Taking the weapons from citizens takes away their freedom, it is as simple as that.

 

[stray bullet]

Banning guns won't do anything. Do you know how many people you can kill with bombs and vehicles? It's far less personal and way more effective.

But again people who don't look more deeply into issues think, "Ban X and people will stop killing with X" without realizing that people will just find other, far more horrible and destructive things to kill with.

This nut (OKC bombing) could have used a gun - but he used a vehicle and bomb. I really don't know what to say to a person that sees an instance of a person going insane and killing others and saying, "Well, let's be more restrictive about who can own the methods of murder they use."

You go and do that and do nothing about mental illness and all the evils of this society.

 

[Cos-play]

Especially relevant at an NRA meeting. Where else would someone who wants to shoot down legal gun owners go if they were of a mind to take out pro-2nd amendment political activists? Thinking they're unarmed simply because it is a meeting.

Remember Chris Kyle, a Navy Seal sniper, was shot dead at a gun range by what I believe was a Muslim terrorist looking to collect the bounty that was still on Mr.Kyle's head. A murder at a gun range. How would it be impossible for someone to think they'd have easy pickings at a mere meeting of the NRA?

Terrorists shoot up schools! They wouldn't seek to take out meetings?

"Gun Free Zone" signs should be illegal. It's stupidity to alert terrorists that there are easy targets on the other side of that sign.
Put up warning signs outside of every school in America.

2013 In Arkansas: Sign Outside Christian School: “Staff Is Armed And Trained”
(subtext-my edit- Dear Terrorist, We'll pray for you after you're dead)

 

[Cos-play]

Someone help me here, since I'm new.

Is this satire or insanity ?

 

[MikeK]

You have evidence that Europe's healthcare system is significantly better than ours?

What we do know is that the perpetrators of mass murders are almost all have some form of mental illness. Yet for some reason, instead of targeting the root of the issue, people want to punish and/or violate the rights of law-abiding citizens.

It is common sense to fix the root of the problem. Guns aren't the root of the problem. Mental illness is.m so fix that.

Europe has several healthcare systems, not a single one, and yes, some of them are demonstrably better. Longer life expectancy, lower rates of death to mother or child during and following birth, lower rates of preventable disease.

Mental illness cannot be said to be the root of America's gun crime problem, the vast majority of murderers in the USA are committed by people who are not insane.

 

[Nikti]

Banning guns won't do anything. Do you know how many people you can kill with bombs and vehicles? It's far less personal and way more effective.

But again people who don't look more deeply into issues think, "Ban X and people will stop killing with X" without realizing that people will just find other, far more horrible and destructive things to kill with.

This nut (OKC bombing) could have used a gun - but he used a vehicle and bomb. I really don't know what to say to a person that sees an instance of a person going insane and killing others and saying, "Well, let's be more restrictive about who can own the methods of murder they use."

You go and do that and do nothing about mental illness and all the evils of this society.

I'm sorry but have you any proof or relevant statistics or data for that assertion? Any example you may draw from?
I don't see car bombs increasing in any country with gun control?

I certainly support and believe that other societal evils should be fixed but those things are incredibly complex and take a huge amount of time.

 

[stray bullet]

I'm sorry but have you any proof or relevant statistics or data for that assertion? Any example you may draw from?
I don't see car bombs increasing in any country with gun control?

I certainly support and believe that other societal evils should be fixed but those things are incredibly complex and take a huge amount of time.

Other nations have smaller populations and other ways of addressing mental illness that I am not sure how you could begin to gather or point to statistical evidence.

I do know this - if you have crazy people out there that are wanting to kill people, they will find a way. If you feel safe knowing civilians can't get guns, as if that is the only way to kill people, then I hope to God you are not able to vote.

 

[Anhelyna]

Nikti - those of us living in the UK have considerable difficulty in understanding this USA attitude that it is our RIGHT to bear guns .

As a result I think most of us have given up trying to get people to see it from our angle. After all - if we use what is regarded as excessive force defending our home / property from someone who has broken in to deny us use / possession of our own property , we could , and do , end up in Court because we have injured someone.

 

[MikeK]

No, but I remember a gun range instructor here in AZ who got shot in the head after giving a 9 year old girl an Uzi.

Now there's some responsible gun handling for you.

So are you for banning cars? There are a lot more people killed in this country due to irresponsible driving than from irresponsible gun-handling. So I would assume you are all for banning cars,[/QUOTE]

Why ban cars guns? Let's require training and licensing for opporators along with registration for each and see if that helps.

No what is a little odd is that anti-gun folks want to take guns out of law abiding hands, while allowing criminals to have all the guns they want.

My duty to society is to take care of my family and protect them. I also filled my duty to this society when I took up weapons to protect it as a Marine. My son is now in the marines to fulfill his duty to society.

Who is advocating for taking guns away from the law-abiding? The main push from our Church and gun control activists is for reasonable legislation, not outright bans.

 

[stray bullet]

Nikti - those of us living in the UK have considerable difficulty in understanding this USA attitude that it is our RIGHT to bear guns .

I have difficulty understand how people think banning guns is a solution to a problem of mental illness. There are crazy but intelligent enough people out there that want to kill. Guns are very precise tools.

There are far better, less precise and more impersonal methods of killing people.

 

[stray bullet]

Why ban cars guns? Let's require training and licensing for opporators along with registration for each and see if that helps.

A person can rent a really big vehicle and plow it into a crowd. A person can do a lot more damage that a sick shooting individuals in a room. A person can poison. They can bomb.

Who is advocating for taking guns away from the law-abiding? The main push from our Church and gun control activists is for reasonable legislation, not outright bans.

Gun control never stops until all guns are banned.

 

[seekingfreedom]

Do you think the majority of these teenagers and young adults would be doing these things if their home life was in tact. I can't believe that parents don't know what these kids are into. Do they turn a blind eye to it? Are they afraid of their children? Do they just not care? Yeah, I know how hard it is too keep an eye on your kids 24/7. But there is something deeper here. We all have our opinions as to how to fix it.

 

[seekingfreedom]

It won't let me edit my post so I will leave it at this---Breakdown of the family and breakdown of society.

 

[heatedmonk]

Someone help me here, since I'm new.

Is this satire or insanity ?

In order to quote a persons post you can click the + in their reply. Then hit "REPLY" or scroll down to the open window at the bottom of the page, click "Insert Quotes...." and then add your remarks after the post you wanted to quote appears.

I'll presume here you were speaking of my remarks. The last part, My-edit, was satire.

 

[heatedmonk]

<<Really bad meme considering the marketable parts referred to were harvested from dead babies who never would get a bath. How does anyone who is pro-life use a real life precious child to make a poorly thought out slogan in order to fail in slamming PP. God have mercy.

 

[heatedmonk]

[QUOTE="heatedmonk, post: 68709116, member: 380836]"Remember Chris Kyle, a Navy Seal sniper, was shot dead at a gun range by what I believe was a Muslim terrorist looking to collect the bounty that was still on Mr.Kyle's head. A murder at a gun range. How would it be impossible for someone to think they'd have easy pickings at a mere meeting of the NRA?

No, but I remember a gun range instructor here in AZ who got shot in the head after giving a 9 year old girl an Uzi.

Now there's some responsible gun handling for you.[/QUOTE] And what's your point exactly?

 

[tadoflamb]

So are you for banning cars? There are a lot more people killed in this country due to irresponsible driving than from irresponsible gun-handling. So I would assume you are all for banning cars,

I haven't seen any Drivers Ed instructors letting a 9 year old drive, thus demonstrating that AZ driving instructors exhibit more common sense than AZ firing range instructors.

Can you think of any good reason to let a 9 year old girl fire an Uzi?

I can't.

 

[tadoflamb]

Guns can be stolen like anything else. If there is a will there is a way. To be honest Tad you usually make sense, but now you are claiming that when people get things stolen from them, it's really their fault? If someone breaks into your house and steals everything you own, you gonna tell the police: "My bad"?

Well, criminals have to get their guns from somewhere.

If gun owners can't exhibit enough responsibility to keep their guns from getting stolen, perhaps they shouldn't have them.

No one stole my guns when I owned them.

Besides, like I said, your gun makes you a target for criminal activity.