True or False Rom. 2:13

[BobRyan]

Romans 2:13-16 points to the shocking fact that "some" gentiles would be in heaven before "some" Jews - because what mattered was obedience to God - not merely parentage.

No wonder Romans 2 ends this way - as it has made the point multiple times during the chapter

25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

 

[Poster0]

Remember in Romans 3:1-4 Paul says that the JEWS (not the Gentiles) are the ones with the WORD of God "the oracles of God".

Also recall that in John 4 Jesus tells the Samaritan woman "Salvation is of the JEWS" -- not the gentiles.

So the Word of God - given through "holy men of old who spoke from God" 2Peter 1:19-21 is - the Jewish channel of light to mankind - not a gentile one.

Cornelius ( a gentile) in Acts 10 is sent to Peter (a Jew) -- by an Angel.

in Rev 12 - it is the Jewish church that is the "woman" -that pure church of God that gives birth to the Messiah.

By contrast the gentiles were without the Word of God - and yet - they still had the work of the Holy Spirit done for them -- the New Covenant "writes God's Law on the mind and heart" Jer 31:31-33 -- Heb 8:6-10

You and I are gentiles WITH a Bible -- not without. So we do have access to the written - LAW of God and are not without Law at all.

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31



Romans 2:16 "according to my GOSPEL" -- not a gospel of - everyone goes to the lake of fire.

Paul points to BOTH success and to failure in Romans 2:6-16 - he does not just say -- it is only failure.

in Christ,

Bob

Im not understanding what you are saying exactly. THe commentary that i posted seemed to say that the natural law mentioned in Romans 2:14 is not referring to the spiritual law which the spirit teaches us, but is instead the law which condemns the gentile. If moses law condemned the Jew then surely the natural law which condemned the Gentile is not what Christ wants us to follow is it?

I must conclude that the natural law mentioned in Romans 2:14 is not the law which we follow, just as the Old covenant law is not what we follow. Both Moses Law for the Jew, and the Natural law of the gentile condemn us.

 

[Poster0]

Romans 2:13-16 points to the shocking fact that "some" gentiles would be in heaven before "some" Jews - because what mattered was obedience to God - not merely parentage.

How does that work though? Remember that Romans 2:14 is talking about the natural law that condemns the gentile, just as Moses law condemns the Jew. All men are condemned. So how does anyone become saved by obedience? . Its not by works that we are saved, so how can obedience save a man?

 

[Poster0]

Im theorizing that paul is not saying anyone is justified by obedience, but he is saying that apart from Christ obedience to the law is the only way a person can be saved. However we know that no one can obey the law perfectly. Not Moses or Natural law. We all stand condemned. Thats what i think Paul is saying in Romans 2:13. He is saying that no one can be justified by any law, and it condemns all. This scripture seems to be referring to Judgment day. See verse 16 below.


12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law; 13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: 14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves; 15in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing [them]); 16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

 

[Poster0]

I could be wrong though. Its seems to be a very difficult chapter.

I just live by Gods grace, and i know i can boast in nothing but Christ and His righteousness. However i also know that i must follow what is good instead of what is evil, and although im not perfect, i try because anything else is to take Gods grace in vain.. That's faith to me. Its simple and gives me peace.

 

[Reformed Lutheran]

Paul is writing to both Jews and gentile Christians in Rome.. He begins Romans with LAW based arguments for both. Why? So that he can establish deliverance from sin in Christ for both Jew and gentile. If we focus too much on Paul's establishing law in his letter to Romans, we will miss his focus of these arguments which actually lead to his main point, DELIVERENCE, ie salvation

Romans 7
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!


Because of the sinfulness if sin both natural law and the law of Moses are used by sin to strengthen sin and condemn us.. Jew and gentile alike, we are condemned in the law,, Christ will deliver both from sin !!

 

[Poster0]

Paul is writing to both Jews and gentile Christians in Rome.. He begins Romans with LAW based arguments for both. Why? So that he can establish deliverance from sin in Christ for both Jew and gentile. If we focus too much on Paul's establishing law in his letter to Romans, we will miss his focus of these arguments which actually lead to his main point, DELIVERENCE, ie salvation

Romans 7
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!


Because of the sinfulness if sin both natural law and the law of Moses are used by sin to strengthen sin and condemn us.. Jew and gentile alike, we are condemned in the law,, Christ will deliver both from sin !!

Thats an interesting scripture. It also is a good example to demonstrate what i believe. Look at the Law in Pauls members, what is it? Its lust. Surely we will never be free from lust until we die, however the older we get the less we need to fight, in my opinion. And surely only salvation by the cross can save us, we can never be so perfect as to be free from lust altogether, i believe.

However Look at what holiness is about. It teaches us to avoid things that feed our lust. It teaches us to avoid that law in our members that war against us. Christ said to take no thought for our life, and if we obey that then we will have much less anxiety and much less struggle with lust as well. Thats just one example of how i try to look at Christs commands in a practical way. Not about salvation but about practical living that helps me walk in the spirit. Look, even paul says that he serves the law with his mind. Therefore to take no thought for tomorrow and not worry about our life is to serve with our mind. Its also to love God with our heart soul and mind. Its also to meditate on things that are true and pure, as paul teaches us to do. All of this is how i walk in the spirit, according to how i understand it. I dont see the commands of Christ as a bad thing, but a good thing that helps me walk in the spirit.

Romans 7:21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

Mathew 6:25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?

 

[Poster0]

Sorry if i am straying off topic again.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread had a small clean up earlier. Please refrain from flaming each other.

 

[Poster0]

Im also sorry for my harsh words. After reading them i feel the need to apologize. Please forgive me. Thank you.

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 2:13 is all about who will be "JUSTIFIED" - that is GOSPEL context.

So also "According to my GOSPEL" says Paul in Rom 2:16 - those gentiles are saved. He is not talking about the "Gospel of being lost"

Rom 2:13-16
13 for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Romans 2:13-16 points to the shocking fact that "some" gentiles would be in heaven before "some" Jews - because what mattered was obedience to God - not merely parentage.

No wonder Romans 2 ends this way - as it has made the point multiple times during the chapter

25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Notice that in these two sections of Romans 2 listed above we have "success" for the gentile -- even a gentile with no access to the Bible. (Now of course we gentiles today do have access to the Bible - but in this case Paul points to those who do not)

Im not understanding what you are saying exactly. THe commentary that i posted seemed to say that the natural law mentioned in Romans 2:14 is not referring to the spiritual law which the spirit teaches us, but is instead the law which condemns the gentile. If moses law condemned the Jew then surely the natural law which condemned the Gentile is not what Christ wants us to follow is it?

Jeremiah 31:31-33 tells us that under the New Covenant the LAW of God known to Jeremiah and to his readers - the moral law of God - that includes the TEN Commandments is "written on the mind and heart".

In Heb 8:6-10 we are told that the same Jer 31:31-33 new Covenant still applies today.

The difference between the Old Covenant and New Covenant is not the Law of God - it is where it is located. Under the New Covenant it is written on the mind and heart for the born-again new creation saint - - under the old covenant it was external on stones. (The New Covenant is the GOSPEL and the Old Covenant is not)

We as New Covenant Christians are still to obey the commandment in Ex 20:5 telling us not to take God's name in vain even though that commandment is never repeated in the New Testament.

There is no text of scripture saying that the OT has been deleted.

Every reference with quote to "Scripture" in the NT - is a reference to the OT text as still binding on the saints.

This is the Bible detail affirmed by all the sources listed here.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
C.H. Spurgeon
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.
And of course 7th day groups


in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 2:16 "according to my GOSPEL" -- not a gospel of - everyone goes to the lake of fire.

Paul points to BOTH success and to failure in Romans 2:6-16 - he does not just say -- it is only failure.

Red highlighting - showing the Gospel in action

Rom 2
4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my Gospel.

25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

 

[BobRyan]

Im theorizing that paul is not saying anyone is justified by obedience, but he is saying that apart from Christ obedience to the law is the only way a person can be saved. .

I don't see "apart from Christ justification" mentioned in Romans 2. Rather Paul is specific that this is Gospel justification. Which is in fact the only kind that the NT talks about.

One is not justified apart from the law - because no justification is needed for a sinless being and a sinner cannot find justification at all not even by obedience - apart from the Gospel. If we insert our own spin into the text so that the apparent reading is no longer accepted - we risk the error so common in such eisegesis.

 

[Reformed Lutheran]

Jew and gentile are not justified or reconciled simply because the new covenant takes the law of Moses and puts it from stone tablets to the tablets of the heart,, no rather they are reconciled by the abolishing of the ordinances by the work of Christ.

Collosions
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments containedin ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross

If the law of commandments (law of Moses) still has validity in the new covenant age then there would still be enmity,, wouldn't matter if that law was on stone or in our hearts, if it was valid we would still be in our sins and separated. The work of Christ was to put to death the ministration of death (ie the strength of the law) and raise to newness of life in the spirit. Being under the law is being under the cloak of death,, a resurrection life is one that is free for one that has died is no longer under the law.

 

[BobRyan]

Jew and gentile are not justified or reconciled simply because the new covenant takes the law of Moses and puts it from stone tablets to the tablets of the heart,,

Justification cannot take place outside of the New Birth - the New Birth is the new nature - whereby God takes His Law and writes it on the mind and heart of the new creation.

If the law of commandments (law of Moses) still has validity in the new covenant age then there would still be enmity

On the contrary - Jeremiah 31:31-33 did not say "not this Law but some other Law yet to be stated - will be written on your heart and mind" as if some law unknown to Jeremiah and his readers.

Heb 8:6-10 does not say "Not the LAW that Jeremiah mentioned - will be written on the mind and heart" under the New Covenant.

Rather Heb 8 tells us Jer 31:31-33 is unchanged from its OT statement - the Law of God still applies --

Romans 3 and Galatians 3 both point to the fact that THE moral Law of God remains - it defines what sin is - it condemns all mankind.

Paul explains it in great detail in Romans 7 - the Law that he quotes - remains.

And in Eph 6:2 Paul locks it in air tight - when he says that the LAW that applies to the saints in the NT - has the 5th Commandment as the "FIRST commandment with a promise".

That my friends is only true of the 10 Commandment unit. It is not true in general of either the OT or the NT. Neither of those texts have the 5th commandment as the FIRST commandment with a promise.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Poster0]

Romans 2:13 is all about who will be "JUSTIFIED" - that is GOSPEL context.

So also "According to my GOSPEL" says Paul in Rom 2:16 - those gentiles are saved. He is not talking about the "Gospel of being lost"

Rom 2:13-16
13 for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Romans 2:13-16 points to the shocking fact that "some" gentiles would be in heaven before "some" Jews - because what mattered was obedience to God - not merely parentage.

No wonder Romans 2 ends this way - as it has made the point multiple times during the chapter

25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Notice that in these two sections of Romans 2 listed above we have "success" for the gentile -- even a gentile with no access to the Bible. (Now of course we gentiles today do have access to the Bible - but in this case Paul points to those who do not)




Jeremiah 31:31-33 tells us that under the New Covenant the LAW of God known to Jeremiah and to his readers - the moral law of God - that includes the TEN Commandments is "written on the mind and heart".

In Heb 8:6-10 we are told that the same Jer 31:31-33 new Covenant still applies today.

The difference between the Old Covenant and New Covenant is not the Law of God - it is where it is located. Under the New Covenant it is written on the mind and heart for the born-again new creation saint - - under the old covenant it was external on stones. (The New Covenant is the GOSPEL and the Old Covenant is not)

We as New Covenant Christians are still to obey the commandment in Ex 20:5 telling us not to take God's name in vain even though that commandment is never repeated in the New Testament.

There is no text of scripture saying that the OT has been deleted.

Every reference with quote to "Scripture" in the NT - is a reference to the OT text as still binding on the saints.

This is the Bible detail affirmed by all the sources listed here.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
C.H. Spurgeon
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.
And of course 7th day groups


in Christ,

Bob

Notice that in these two sections of Romans 2 listed above we have "success" for the gentile -- even a gentile with no access to the Bible. (Now of course we gentiles today do have access to the Bible - but in this case Paul points to those who do not)

Im not sure that the text is so clear that i would agree that it refers to people who have no bible, or have never hear the word. It may simply refer to the gentiles who dont have Law of Moses, but not necessarily being without the Gospel itself.

However i really dont know, and you may just be right, but i'll be meditating on the meaning of this Natural law in the days ahead.

 

[BobRyan]

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68664434, member: 235244"]Romans 2:16 "according to my GOSPEL" -- not a gospel of - everyone goes to the lake of fire.

Paul points to BOTH success and to failure in Romans 2:6-16 - he does not just say -- it is only failure.

Red highlighting - showing the Gospel in action

Rom 2
4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my Gospel.

25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure that the text is so clear that i would agree that it refers to people who have no bible, or have never hear the word. It may simply refer to the gentiles who dont have Law of Moses, but not necessarily being without the Gospel itself.

The fact that they must do "instinctively" what that Law says - instead of being blessed to "read it" is the first indicator that they have no Bible.

the second really good indicator is in Romans 3 as it contrasts the Jews with Gentiles.

Rom 3
1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision?
2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.
3 What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?

 

[BobRyan]

The big shock that Romans 2 has for the Jew is that God is not only stating that they are not locked-in-to-a-ticket-to-heaven while Gentiles are lost - simply because they have been entrusted with the "Word of God" - but God says in fact some gentiles will get to heaven ahead of some Jews because some gentiles are in fact born-again New Covenant saints with the Holy Spirit changing the heart and writing "My Law on their mind and heart" - for the obedient Gentile - while the Jew that rejects the Holy Spirit is lost. This means that generational-privilege-inherited-salvation that they were traditionally relying on was worthless.

13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

Thus Paul keeps claiming that the Jews HEAR the Law but they are guilty of not doing it -- and because of that the "name of God is blasphemed among the gentiles because of you"

 

[Poster0]

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68664434, member: 235244"]Romans 2:16 "according to my GOSPEL" -- not a gospel of - everyone goes to the lake of fire.

Paul points to BOTH success and to failure in Romans 2:6-16 - he does not just say -- it is only failure.

Red highlighting - showing the Gospel in action

Rom 2
4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my Gospel.

25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

[/QUOTE]


All i know is the commentary that i read seemed to suggest that it could refer to the law that condemns the gentile, but not the law which justifies him. So im not sure what to believe. I dont actually care what it means to be honest, because its not something i worry about, but its something that i will be thinking about. If i figure it out one day then thats good, but if not then im unconcerned, because i feel that im on the right path in life and that scripture isnt of vital important in my daily life anyway.

 

[BobRyan]

All i know is the commentary that i read seemed to suggest that it could refer to the law that condemns the gentile, but not the law which justifies him. So im not sure what to believe. I dont actually care what it means to be honest, because its not something i worry about, but its something that i will be thinking about. If i figure it out one day then thats good, but if not then im unconcerned, because i feel that im on the right path in life and that scripture isnt of vital important in my daily life anyway.

I think there is a great deal of - commentary - out there that does agree with the -- commentary -- you have linked here.

But when we look at the details in the actual text - we see a very different set of facts -- not at all "only failure".

For "only failure" we can go to Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Paul clearly knew how to say "only failure" --

What Paul is talking about in Romans 2 - is the same thing that James says in James 2

20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.


And Christ in Matt 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

And what John says in 1 John 5
1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and KEEP His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And what John says in 1 John 2
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.