Should Christians take up arms ?

[Righttruth]

You realize all people are transgressors?

Not ALL! When I built a house in a very isolated and notorious neighborhood, I was tempted to possess arms. I overcame it, and I have not been subjected to any criminal problems as I have continued to stay for more than twenty years. My friends say our home has been guarded by angels!

 

[98cwitr]

So it would be loving, then, to use force to protect the innocent.

Not if it means doing harm to your enemies. Remember, Christ said to love your enemies too!

 

[John Robie]

Not if it means doing harm to your enemies. Remember, Christ said to love your enemies too!

So you just said its not loving to protect the innocent. Are you sure that's what you mean?

 

[DawnStar]

Can you tie all of that in, personally, to Christ's teachings about loving your enemies and neighbors?

I do not hate my enemies or my neighbors. I assure you that hate would not be the motivation for shooting anyone that shot at me or other innocents first.

 

[mikedsjr]

Not ALL! When I built a house in a very isolated and notorious neighborhood, I was tempted to possess arms. I overcame it, and I have not been subjected to any criminal problems as I have continued to stay for more than twenty years. My friends say our home has been guarded by angels!

Have you ever lied just once?
Have you ever used God's name in vain?
Have you ever dishonored your parents just once?
Have you lusted after anyone in a sexual way in your entire life, much less in the last 24 hours, just for even a brief moment?
Have you stolen anything?
More to the topic, the Jesus said if you hate someone in your mind it's as if you murdered them. Have you ever hated someone, even for a brief moment?

If you answered yes to any of them, you are a transgressor. You have transgressed the entirety of God's law. If you answered no to all of them, your a liar and deceiver of God and clearly don't recognize your need for a savior.

Oh my brothers and sisters, I'm about to lay some Gospel smack down! If ya smell what the Rock is cooking.

 

[Righttruth]

Have you ever lied just once?
Have you ever used God's name in vain?
Have you ever dishonored your parents just once?
Have you lusted after anyone in a sexual way in your entire life, much less in the last 24 hours, just for even a brief moment?
Have you stolen anything?
More to the topic, the Jesus said if you hate someone in your mind it's as if you murdered them. Have you ever hated someone, even for a brief moment?

If you answered yes to any of them, you are a transgressor. You have transgressed the entirety of God's law. If you answered no to all of them, your a liar and deceiver of God and clearly don't recognize your need for a savior.

Oh my brothers and sisters, I'm about to lay some Gospel smack down! If ya smell what the Rock is cooking.

Yes, I am a sinner and weak. Only Jesus can help me to become strong and conquer my vices. Nevertheless, I will NEVER, NEVER try deliberately to add one more transgression for saving my skin!

I am sinner, therefore, I can continue add more sins is not what Gospel is about!

 

[mikedsjr]

Yes, I am a sinner and weak. Only Jesus can help me to become strong and conquer my vices. Nevertheless, I will NEVER, NEVER try deliberately to add one more transgression for saving my skin!

I am sinner, therefore, I can continue add more sins is not what Gospel is about!

Let me tell you cold hard facts. Every time you sin, you deliberately do so.

 

[Righttruth]

Let me tell you cold hard facts. Every time you sin, you deliberately do so.

No. Don't underestimate the power of Satan over us still. I hurt my subconscious mind, yet fall prey to the fleshly desires. One such desire that haunted me for decades was overcome with the grace of Jesus.

Owning a weapon simply indicates lack of one's trust in the protection of the Lord. If it is God's intention to take away your life, even the best and most destructive weapon will not protect you from death!

 

[mikedsjr]

Not ALL! When I built a house in a very isolated and notorious neighborhood, I was tempted to possess arms. I overcame it, and I have not been subjected to any criminal problems as I have continued to stay for more than twenty years. My friends say our home has been guarded by angels!

So should I repeat the questions again? If you are guilty of any sin, you are a transgressor.

 

[Righttruth]

So should I repeat the questions again? If you are guilty of any sin, you are a transgressor.

I don't like to add another transgression like medals of a soldier!

 

[mikedsjr]

I don't like to add another transgression like medals of a soldier!

Clearly I understood this for awhile. But you still are choosing your transgressions. You just disparage a certain type of group as all evil doers. But you have yet to point to clear verse stating wielding a weapon is a transgression, but only to a verse regarding a prophesy of someone welding a weapon of transgression at Christ's arrest.

Is your theology lean towards charismatic?

 

[Righttruth]

Clearly I understood this for awhile. But you still are choosing your transgressions. You just disparage a certain type of group as all evil doers. But you have yet to point to clear verse stating wielding a weapon is a transgression, but only to a verse regarding a prophesy of someone welding a weapon of transgression at Christ's arrest.

None of the verses of the OT can be quoted to defend possession of arms. When the Master has taught to love enemies where is the question of intention to kill somebody: friend or foe, in offense or defense? He also preached not to give importance to this life on the world. Who will worry when we are seeking eternal life in heaven?

Is your theology lean towards charismatic?

I am very much against charismatic or mesmerizing or rhetoric speeches and actions to create illusion in peoples' mind. Jesus, Paul, Peter and other apostles were not orators.

 

[classicalhero]

Not if it means doing harm to your enemies. Remember, Christ said to love your enemies too!

So you have a chance to stop hundreds from being killed and you do nothing to stop them? You might as well kill them yourself. The Bible is clear that we have a duty to protect lives even if it means we have to kill that will take lives. The Bible says that you have blood on your hands if you don't protect those when you have the chance to. This is because you have their blood on your hands by not protecting thm when you have the ability to.

This sort of pacifism is what helped WW2 to be worse than what it was. One famous debate in Oxford gave comfort to the Nazi's and allowed them to do what they wanted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_and_Country_debate

I remember very vividly, a few months after the famous pacifist resolution at the Oxford Union visiting Germany and having a talk with a prominent leader of the young Nazis. He was asking about this pacifist motion and I tried to explain it to him. There was an ugly gleam in his eye when he said, "The fact is that you English are soft". Then I realized that the world enemies of peace might be the pacifists.

http://www.kootenaichurch.org/articles-pdf/issues/The-Immorality-Of-Pacifism-Part-1.pdf

 

[mikedsjr]

None of the verses of the OT can be quoted to defend possession of arms. When the Master has taught to love enemies where is the question of intention to kill somebody: friend or foe, in offense or defense? He also preached not to give importance to this life on the world. Who will worry when we are seeking eternal life in heaven?.

So do you have a job?

 

[Leslie B]

I take up the sword of the Spirit every day

 

[mikedsjr]

Righ truth, I'm unconcerned how evil you believe I am. Christ died for my past, present and future sins.

I love sports. I love it when my team wins. I love it when we destroy the other team. It's pride. It's war without death. Your city vs mine. Your college team vs mine. Your country vs mine. Victory feels good. Is there sin involved? At some level I guess there is. Winners and losers. Seasons of misery. Seasons of triumph. Sometimes rooting for another team. Violent are some sports. There are chants of Conquering. There are chants to defeat. There is cheering against opponents. Yet in all this there are many playing the game who are Christians.

Sports takes team work. It takes a mindset to conquer. Same with military, except there you know you must be willing to die. And die so many have done for freedom. Not one country exist without fighting for their place. Result of sin? Yes. Sacrifice has been made for good and evil. But you believe everyone should be controlled by evil. I believe Christians should fight to protect out of love for those around them.

 

[Righttruth]

So do you have a job?

I have retired from a secular job. That is why I call myself as just a believer. I have not become a follower of Jesus.

 

[mikedsjr]

The reason I asked about if you are charismatic is you seem to condemn hyper-grace. If so, that isn't my position.

 

[Righttruth]

Righ truth, I'm unconcerned how evil you believe I am. Christ died for my past, present and future sins.

Don't get me wrong. I am also a evil person, yet to become perfect; we need to strive for that. The death of Christ is applicable to all only when we repent and seek forgiveness for the past and present sins. There is no verse in the entire Bible to support the wacky and ear tickling assumption that it covers our future sins also. Jesus said to sinners after forgiving to sin no more.

I love sports. I love it when my team wins. I love it when we destroy the other team. It's pride.

Proverbs 8
13 "The fear of the LORD is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverted mouth, I hate.

Proverbs 11
2 When pride comes, then comes dishonor, But with the humble is wisdom.

Proverbs 16
18 Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before stumbling.

Proverbs 21
24 "Proud," "Haughty," "Scoffer," are his names, Who acts with insolent pride.

Proverbs 29
23 A man's pride will bring him low, But a humble spirit will obtain honor.

It's war without death.

Broken bones are common in football. Deaths seen in boxing.

Your city vs mine. Your college team vs mine. Your country vs mine. Victory feels good. Is there sin involved? At some level I guess there is. Winners and losers. Seasons of misery. Seasons of triumph. Sometimes rooting for another team. Violent are some sports. There are chants of Conquering. There are chants to defeat. There is cheering against opponents. Yet in all this there are many playing the game who are Christians.

Professional sports and its byproducts are worldly and even evil. Hypocrisy in Christendom allows such celebrations. They are not Christ centered!

Sports takes team work. It takes a mindset to conquer. Same with military, except there you know you must be willing to die. And die so many have done for freedom. Not one country exist without fighting for their place. Result of sin? Yes. Sacrifice has been made for good and evil. But you believe everyone should be controlled by evil. I believe Christians should fight to protect out of love for those around them.

Christ called for losing life for His sake. Not for a country. Patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel!

 

[Righttruth]

The reason I asked about if you are charismatic is you seem to condemn hyper-grace. If so, that isn't my position.

There is no such coinage as 'hyper-grace' and exaggerated understanding! Can I call that charismatic understanding?