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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Food for thought.

Chriliman

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In what way? How do you draw that conclusion from a "lack of evidence"?

Lack of evidence means lack of knowledge of the truth, right? Yet there must be a truth to be known about the origins of the universe because if there is no truth to be known then everything becomes meaningless. It becomes meaningless to seek the truth about the origins of the universe if there is no truth to be known. This is why I believe there is a truth to be known.
 
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Chriliman

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A lack of evidence of the beginnings of the universe does not equal evidence for the possibility of a god existing. All it means is that we don't know.

Right, you and many others do not know how the universe came to be and somehow you can conclude from not knowing, that you do know it's impossible for an eternal infinite God to have created the universe. Really? You know an eternal infinite God does not exist? If you can't claim to know that then you must claim it's possible for an eternal infinite God to have created the universe.
 
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ToddNotTodd

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Right, you and many others do not know how the universe came to be and somehow you can conclude from not knowing, that you do know it's impossible for an eternal infinite God to have created the universe. Really? You know an eternal infinite God does not exist? If you can't claim to know that then you must claim it's possible for an eternal infinite God to have created the universe.

Sigh...

You're - once again - lying about what I believe.

If you were Catholic you'd have a lot to confess...
 
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Chriliman

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Sigh...

You're - once again - lying about what I believe.

If you were Catholic you'd have a lot to confess...

Just answer the questions and we might get somewhere. Do you know an eternal infinite God does not exist?
 
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Ana the Ist

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Lack of evidence means lack of knowledge of the truth, right? Yet there must be a truth to be known about the origins of the universe because if there is no truth to be known then everything becomes meaningless. It becomes meaningless to seek the truth about the origins of the universe if there is no truth to be known. This is why I believe there is a truth to be known.

Ok. How can you go about learning this truth?
 
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Chriliman

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I don't have any reason to believe that it's possible that a god exists.

Can you answer this question with a yes or no answer?

Since you don't know this eternal infinite God does not exist, is it possible that this God created the universe?
 
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ToddNotTodd

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Can you answer this question with a yes or no answer?

Since you don't know this eternal infinite God does not exist, is it possible that this God created the universe?

What you continually fail to realize is that this isn't a yes or no question. You've heard of a false dichotomy, right?

There are three possible statements to this question:

1. I believe it's possible that a god exists.
2. I believe it's not possible that a god exists.
3. I do not believe that it's possible that a god exists.

Now, if you think 2 and 3 are the same thing, which is what I'm anticipating, then for god's sake please pick up a book on logic and read it all the way through...
 
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Belk

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Lack of evidence means lack of knowledge of the truth, right?

No, it means that we lack evidence. It is a possibility there is no evidence to discover.

Yet there must be a truth to be known about the origins of the universe because if there is no truth to be known then everything becomes meaningless. It becomes meaningless to seek the truth about the origins of the universe if there is no truth to be known. This is why I believe there is a truth to be known.


Argument from consequence fallacy.
 
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quatona

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Would you like to know the truth behind how and why the universe exists? If so, then consider all the possibilities objectively and don't assume the possibility of God is off the table because it's not.
Never assumed, never said I assumed it.I considered them objectively, and they all are purely speculative. So we are back at the rational "I don´t know".

If this what´s left of your "food for thought", it is lacking intellectual nutrition.
 
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Ana the Ist

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By objectively looking into the possibility that an eternal infinite God created the universe.

There's nothing objective about that...

Objectivity would be looking at the evidence and seeing where that leads.
 
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Chriliman

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What you continually fail to realize is that this isn't a yes or no question. You've heard of a false dichotomy, right?

There are three possible statements to this question:

1. I believe it's possible that a god exists.
2. I believe it's not possible that a god exists.
3. I do not believe that it's possible that a god exists.

Now, if you think 2 and 3 are the same thing, which is what I'm anticipating, then for god's sake please pick up a book on logic and read it all the way through...

The question is:

Since we don't know an eternal infinite God does not exist, is it possible that this God created the universe?

If we say yes, this means we're accepting the truth that this eternal infinite God is possible and could have created the universe. This is the most rational answer to the question.

If we say no, this means we're rejecting the truth that this eternal infinite God is possible. How can we reject that truth when we actually don't know if this eternal infinite God does not exist? Doesn't the fact that we don't know mean that this God could possibly exist and we can rationally accept this as a true possibility?
 
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quatona

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The question is:

Since we don't know an eternal infinite God does not exist, is it possible that this God created the universe?

If we say yes, this means we're accepting the truth that this eternal infinite God is possible and could have created the universe. This is the most rational answer to the question.

If we say no, this means we're rejecting the truth that this eternal infinite God is possible. How can we reject that truth when we actually don't know if this eternal infinite God does not exist? Doesn't the fact that we don't know mean that this God could possibly exist and we can rationally accept this as a true possibility?
The question is rather: How much weight do we give academically possible options (options that don´t have any more plausibility to them than that they are just not entirely impossible), particularly in light of the fact that such options are a dime a dozen?
 
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Davian

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The question is:

Since we don't know an eternal infinite God does not exist, is it possible that this God created the universe?

If we say yes, this means we're accepting the truth that this eternal infinite God is possible and could have created the universe. This is the most rational answer to the question.

If we say no, this means we're rejecting the truth that this eternal infinite God is possible. How can we reject that truth when we actually don't know if this eternal infinite God does not exist? Doesn't the fact that we don't know mean that this God could possibly exist and we can rationally accept this as a true possibility?
Is this the same "God" that allegedly walked and talked in a garden that has no evidence of having existed, poofed people and animals into existence, and later, in a manner contrary to the modern understanding of genetics, populated the planet with a tiny group of individuals and animals that survived a global flood in an unbuildable boat, a flood that killed the dinosaurs in a manner that only *appears* to be 65 million years ago, because the Earth is really only somehow 6000 years old, yet remains, by every objective measure to date indistinguishable from nothing?
 
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Chriliman

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The question is rather: How much weight do we give academically possible options (options that don´t have any more plausibility to them than that they are just not entirely impossible), particularly in light of the fact that such options are a dime a dozen?

Wouldn't it come down to which academically possible option can explain the most about the universe? What if only one academically possible option can explain everything about the universe, including the origins of evil and what good is?
 
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Davian

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Wouldn't it come down to which academically possible option can explain the most about the universe? What if only one academically possible option can explain everything about the universe, including the origins of evil and what good is?
I don't think your religious opinion is an academically possible option as an explanation of... anything in the universe.
 
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quatona

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Wouldn't it come down to which academically possible option can explain the most about the universe? What if only one academically possible option can explain everything about the universe, including the origins of evil and what good is?
I tend to agree. Of course, "explaining" here doesn´t mean what you think it means.
 
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