Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

[Chandler50]

The elects thanks God. Where there are 3, Christ is among them. RCC is just another denomination. The universal Catholic church is founded by Christ, not RCC. RCC later scattered with greed. Protestants worships in the universal Catholic church and use 66 book as thier source of authority, not the papal system. RCC is a papal system, not the universal Catholic church. RCC don't need to answer God cause God will pass over them as they are invisible.

Not according to your theory that there are elects. If so, it does not matter what the elect do, they still go to heaven.

 

[Goatee]

They hate us and call us outsiders while we worship in the true churches. We proclaim the gospel to you as instructed regardless to how we feel about you.

I dont hate any Christian! Doesn't matter what denomination! We are all Brothers and Sisters in Christ!

Its great to debate things but no hate should enter into it.

We all believe in the Gospels and the Bible. Ok, little difference are there but really, they are 'little' in the grand scheme of things! Jesus said, Love thy neighbor! Love is what matters, not hate!!

 

[tulipbee]

I dont hate any Christian! Doesn't matter what denomination! We are all Brothers and Sisters in Christ!

Its great to debate things but no hate should enter into it.

We all believe in the Gospels and the Bible. Ok, little difference are there but really, they are 'little' in the grand scheme of things! Jesus said, Love thy neighbor! Love is what matters, not hate!!

RCC say all Protestants are outsiders and not Christians. That is what the false papal system teaches. Not very welcoming to the elects

 

[Goatee]

RCC say all Protestants are outsiders and not Christians. That is what the false papal system teaches. Not very welcoming to the elects

I am Catholic and i have never said such a thing.

http://realnewsrightnow.com/2015/07...reunification-of-churches-under-the-holy-see/

 

[Dialogist]

Books authored by God vs books authored by men, you pick

How do you determine which books are "authored by God", as you say, and which books are authored by men?

 

[Bassmode]

Sweet heaven have mercy. So Calvin was a heretic, but Luther was not?

You are missing the point ! I do not follow mans teachings or traditions only what the word of God says

 

[Bassmode]

Which heretic do you most prefer, would you say?

None do not follow man, rather I follow what GOD Says alone

 

[Bassmode]

Which heretic do you most prefer, would you say?

None mate I do not follow man, rather I follow God's word

 

[tulipbee]

I am Catholic and i have never said such a thing.

http://realnewsrightnow.com/2015/07...reunification-of-churches-under-the-holy-see/

Maybe not you but its in the documents and traditions that the Catholic church claims the Protestants are outside the church. I've read them millions of times . maybe another person can back up what I said. They say if a pastor isn't ordained by the Catholic office then they're not ordained. The list is long.

Note, the link includes: "part of their induction into the Catholic faith, all Protestants above the age of fifteen are required to undergo a Catholic Confirmation, one of three sacraments of initiation, out of seven total, which Catholics can receive. “Most, if not all, of us have been baptized,” said Father Brogran. “However, without formal Confirmation, our Protestant baptisms will be null, thus preventing us from entering the Kingdom of Heaven.”

It is the Catholic denomination that said "baptisms WILL be null"

 

[tulipbee]

How do you determine which books are "authored by God", as you say, and which books are authored by men?

See post #361

 

[Albion]

None mate I do not follow man, rather I follow God's word

Calvin said that he did that, too. It's not as though he had a dream or found some golden plates.

 

[Dialogist]

See post #361

Ok, got it. What I understood from #361 is that certain set of mathematical algorithms have doctrinal authority in your particular Christian confession. Thanks.

 

[BobRyan]

It means all doctrine and tradition are to be tested by the Bible - as Christ did in Mark 7:6-13
As even in the OT was demanded in Isaiah 8:20.
As the saints do in Acts 17:11.

It does not mean that all doctrine and tradition are evil - it means that all are to be tested.

What if I argued that the Gospel of Mark and the Book of Acts don't belong in the Bible, so we can't be certain that the events reported in Mark 7:6-13 and Acts 17:11 are actually true.

1. There is no evidence that the first century saints rejected them.
2. They pass the test of "sola scriptura" so we are inclined rather to accept them - not reject them.
3. Even the RCC as steeped in tradition as it is - cannot bring itself to such an extreme.
4. Imagining that Acts 17:11 and Mark 7:6-13 did not exist and so also Isaiah 8:20 - is one of the best arguments I have see for rejecting sola scriptura.

So you probably don't get a lot of followers in that sort of thing.

 

[tulipbee]

Ok, got it. What I understood from #361 is that certain set of mathematical algorithms have doctrinal authority in your particular Christian confession. Thanks.

The 66 books has the authority

 

[Goatee]

Maybe not you but its in the documents and traditions that the Catholic church claims the Protestants are outside the church. I've read them millions of times . maybe another person can back up what I said. They say if a pastor isn't ordained by the Catholic office then they're not ordained. The list is long.

Note, the link includes: "part of their induction into the Catholic faith, all Protestants above the age of fifteen are required to undergo a Catholic Confirmation, one of three sacraments of initiation, out of seven total, which Catholics can receive. “Most, if not all, of us have been baptized,” said Father Brogran. “However, without formal Confirmation, our Protestant baptisms will be null, thus preventing us from entering the Kingdom of Heaven.”

It is the Catholic denomination that said "baptisms WILL be null"

I agree on the first point.

About the induction, i guess if protestants are not happy about that then they dont have to continue!

 

[Dialogist]

There is no evidence that the first century saints rejected them

OK, got it. So we can't, in fact, rely on Scripture to authenticate itself.

 

[BobRyan]

OK, got it. So we can't, in fact, rely on Scripture to authenticate itself.

No one in the first century was saying "hey wait - don't read the book of Mark until Paul tells you to" - Mark is recording the words of Christ in what is most likely the first Gospel account historically -- no need to wait for someone to come along 300 years later and tell you to read it.

And likewise in Act 17:11 Luke records that they "studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul were so" without first saying 'wait a few centuries - maybe 3 or 4 centuries for the first Pope to come along and tell us if this is ok to do" .

I think everyone agrees to this basic detail.

 

[BobRyan]

OK, got it. So we can't, in fact, rely on Scripture to authenticate itself.

Until you realize that many of those reading Acts and Mark - were not Christians - they were Jews and Gentiles considering the option of becoming Christian - they were not first waiting for Christians to tell them what to think -- that would be circular logic on their part.

just like many today - read the Bible as non-Christians and then based on what the Bible says - choose to either accept or reject Christianity.

 

[BobRyan]

Nothing in Christ's statement to the magisterium in Mark 7 claims "this is not from scripture but from the church".

Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Nor does Christ make the circular argument "your doctrine is unholy because it is unholy" -

This is a "not so subtle point" that keeps getting glossed over. circular arguments don't work.

Nor does Christ say "you do not have your scripture confirmed by an outside source"

Nor does Christ say "ignore the scripture I am quoting to prove you are in error"

We are talking about slamming the traditions of the church via the Mark 7 method - sola scriptura - where it is found to be in conflict with the Word of God.

=================================

Notice that the Jews in Mark 7 do not have the option of "well Jesus we don't know if we should listen to you until someone comes along 2 or 3 hundred years from now to tell us to listen".

 

[Goatee]

Thing is Bob that you are quoting 'tradition' where the Catholic church follows 'Tradition' as from the Holy Spirit!