Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

[bbbbbbb]

Name one that is anti biblical.

Purgatory

 

[Chandler50]

Purgatory

That is extra-biblical not anti-biblical. I said to state an anti-biblical tradition.

The concept of the Trinity is extra-biblical, and I know most agree with that. So we are focusing on traditions that are explicitly condemned in scripture.

 

[Chandler50]

OK, thanks.

Would this include the gnostic Gospels?

No, Only written works that were canonized during the Council of Rome.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That is extra-biblical not anti-biblical. I said to state an anti-biblical tradition.

The concept of the Trinity is extra-biblical, and I know most agree with that. So we are focusing on traditions that are explicitly condemned in scripture.

You must not be much of a Catholic if you profess that Purgatory is extra-biblical. Most Catholics here insist that it is biblical. I suppose that most everything that you consider to be Tradition in your Church is extra-biblical.

 

[Chandler50]

You must not be much of a Catholic if you profess that Purgatory is extra-biblical. Most Catholics here insist that it is biblical. I suppose that most everything that you consider to be Tradition in your Church is extra-biblical.

Purgatory does have biblical backing, but I was not going to go there because that is not the question I asked, and that is not what this thread is about.

Obviously every tradition is extra-biblical, if it was not it would not be called a tradition. So that is why I am asking for a tradition that is explicitly anti-biblical.

Now stop throwing out red-herrings and answer the question.

 

[Dialogist]

Those 7 books are Tobit, Judith, Baruch, Wisdom, Sirach, First Maccabees, and Second Maccabees. They are not inspired by God but the Catholics wouldn't know anyway

Why do you say that those particular books were added by the Romsn Catholic Church?

 

[Dialogist]

No, Only written works that were canonized during the Council of Rome.

Wouldn't that imply deference to an authority other than the Bible?

 

[Bassmode]

Did you read my OP at all? I addressed your main argument with Tim 3:16-17. All scripture is useful, because it is inspired by God, how could it not be useful. But it is not the only authority because the Holy Spirit still lives among us.

All of the other verses you cited do not apply to this because when it says the 'word' it is not referring to written scripture. Read a Greek translation and you will see that all of the other verses when they say the 'word of God' it mean spoken word, not written word. I believe that God's word is authoritative regardless of if it is written or handed down orally through the Holy Spirit.

So if you believe that scripture is the only authority, what does that say about your view of the Holy Spirit living among us? Does God no longer speak to His people? If he does, then logically He would do it through the Church that he started on earth, right?

Of course I read it & that is why I think you either do not understand God's Word or you do not Know Him, As The very first scripture you quoted 2 Timothy 3:16-17 proves alone that God's word is sufficient for us to walk our life in Christ. There are other scriptures as well take Psalm 119:105 for instance

Psa 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

His word will guide us in life, Solomon the wisest man ever to live said

Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

The Bible is not just mans writings or thoughts, but rather what God wants to say to us, to guide, teach the right way to live our life on this earth.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Why because you cannot trust man
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Also many false prophets & deceivers are out there, especially in the end times
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, ifit were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The Holy spirit is not some mystical force moving through the Church, the Holy spirit will never move contrary to God's word, He lives in every believer
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Also see 1 Corinthians 6:19

The many workings of the Holy Spirit is to glorify Christ, teach and guide us what Christ taught, and bring to remembrance what he said

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear,that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter,which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

The only way the Holy Spirit speaks to the Church and the believer in Christ is through God's word, no new revelation by man is need, which takes me back to 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is for reproof, instruction etc, why do you need any more ? do you not have faith in Christ alone ?, why would you trust a man, when you can trust the creator of the universe !

 

[Chandler50]

Purgatory does have biblical backing, but I was not going to go there because that is not the question I asked, and that is not what this thread is about.

Obviously every tradition is extra-biblical, if it was not it would not be called a tradition. So that is why I am asking for a tradition that is exactly anti-biblical.

Wouldn't that imply deference to an authority other than the Bible?

Yup

 

[Chandler50]

Of course I read it & that is why I think you either do not understand God's Word or you do not Know Him, As The very first scripture you quoted 2 Timothy 3:16-17 proves alone that God's word is sufficient for us to walk our life in Christ. There are other scriptures as well take Psalm 119:105 for instance

Psa 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

His word will guide us in life, Solomon the wisest man ever to live said

Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

The Bible is not just mans writings or thoughts, but rather what God wants to say to us, to guide, teach the right way to live our life on this earth.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Why because you cannot trust man
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Also many false prophets & deceivers are out there, especially in the end times
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, ifit were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The Holy spirit is not some mystical force moving through the Church, the Holy spirit will never move contrary to God's word, He lives in every believer
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Also see 1 Corinthians 6:19

The many workings of the Holy Spirit is to glorify Christ, teach and guide us what Christ taught, and bring to remembrance what he said

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear,that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter,which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

The only way the Holy Spirit speaks to the Church and the believer in Christ is through God's word, no new revelation by man is need, which takes me back to 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is for reproof, instruction etc, why do you need any more ? do you not have faith in Christ alone ?, why would you trust a man, when you can trust the creator of the universe !

Why do you say that the Holy Spirit does not move against God's will? Are you suggesting that we follow traditions that are not of God? If so, show me one that is anti-biblical.

 

[Bassmode]

The Holy Spirit is from God, so why would He move contrary to God's word ?He brings to remembrance of what Christ said they are in harmony to each other ! see again John 16:13-15 & John 14:26-27, also
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
No mate I said we should only follow God & His word, not the traditions of men !
The healthy wealthy prosperity gospel that is preached today is one of the many examples of anti biblical teachings & what you are saying is also anti biblical, that we cannot trust God's word alone !

 

[Chandler50]

The Holy Spirit is from God, so why would He move contrary to God's word ?He brings to remembrance of what Christ said they are in harmony to each other ! see again John 16:13-15 & John 14:26-27, also
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
No mate I said we should only follow God & His word, not the traditions of men !
The healthy wealthy prosperity gospel that is preached today is one of the many examples of anti biblical teachings & what you are saying is also anti biblical, that we cannot trust God's word alone !

How did you get God's word? Was it delivered to your doorstep? Did God give you personal revelation to know which books are inspired? No, the Catholic Church established the canon, and that is the Bible you claim for yourself. So claiming your Bible is inspired, implies authority to the Church that established that Bible.

 

[Chandler50]

The Holy Spirit is from God, so why would He move contrary to God's word ?He brings to remembrance of what Christ said they are in harmony to each other ! see again John 16:13-15 & John 14:26-27, also
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
No mate I said we should only follow God & His word, not the traditions of men !
The healthy wealthy prosperity gospel that is preached today is one of the many examples of anti biblical teachings & what you are saying is also anti biblical, that we cannot trust God's word alone !

Do you think that the Holy Spirit is from God, or is God?

 

[Bassmode]

The Catholic Church did not bring God's word to me or to our world, they for centuries persecuted, murdered & tortured true believers ! have you forgotten the inquisitions the Catholic Church did ? You are saying what the Catholic Church said centuries ago, that only we have the right to read & interrupt God's Word for you & if you disagree with our decrees let them be anathema !

 

[Bassmode]

Do you think that the Holy Spirit is from God, or is God?

It is not what I think or think not but what God says
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[Chandler50]

The Catholic Church did not bring God's word to me or to our world, they for centuries persecuted, murdered & tortured true believers ! have you forgotten the inquisitions the Catholic Church did ? You are saying what the Catholic Church said centuries ago, that only we have the right to read & interrupt God's Word for you & if you disagree with our decrees let them be anathema !

What do you think anathema means?

And Protestants are just as guilty of killing as the Catholic Church. At least we admit it. Calvin disembowled people that did not agree with his doctrine.

 

[Chandler50]

It is not what I think or think not but what God says
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

So then why did you say that God sent the Holy Spirit if they are one?

 

[Bassmode]

So then why did you say that God sent the Holy Spirit if they are one?

I did not say that God said it mate !
Joh 16:5But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?

Joh 16:6But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.

Joh 16:7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Joh 16:8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Joh 16:9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

 

[Bassmode]

What do you think anathema means?

And Protestants are just as guilty of killing as the Catholic Church. At least we admit it. Calvin disembowled people that did not agree with his doctrine.

Calvin was a heretic mate, I do not follow him

 

[Chandler50]

Calvin was a heretic mate, I do not follow him

Sweet heaven have mercy. So Calvin was a heretic, but Luther was not?