Did the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?

[Cribstyl]

Acts 13 -- gentiles keeping the Sabbath.
Acts 17 - gentiles keeping the Sabbath
Acts 18 - gentiles keeping the Sabbath

Is 56 is a special promise given to gentiles who keep the Sabbath.

Thus says the Lord:


“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND"

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".

We "gentiles" like to think that we are a big important part of "mankind" -- as it turns out.

in Christ,

Bob

Isaiah 56 is a prophetic word fulfilled under the old covenant. Unless you can tell us about your burnt offerings and sacrifices required under the New Covenant, your commentary is questionable.

 

[Cribstyl]

Its about fasting and the issues of them eating meat and not eating meat. Stop cherry picking and read the chapter in context. Verses 1-4 pretty much give away what they were debating about.

Romans 14
The Law of Liberty
14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every dayalike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.

The Law of Love
14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died.16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.

19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

I strongly disagree. The subject in verses 1-12 is about judging your Christian brothers in by what they eat and when they worship, and not one word about fasting.
The subject in 1-4 is clearly about a brother with concerns about eating clean or unclean meat. There is not one clue about fasting.
The subject in 5-6 is clearly about days of the week to honor God. The conclusion of the matter is: Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. Show us what verse talks about fasting????

 

[Cribstyl]

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68454484,"]The weekly Sabbath never mentioned in Romans 14.

One man "regards one day ABOVE the other while another Regards them ALL" - He who REGARDs the day in Romm 14 - observes it.

No one in Rom 14 "Regards no day".

The reference to days in Rom 14 - is to the Bible-approved annual holy days - of Lev 23.

One man esteems EVERY DAY and another esteems one day ABOVE another in that Lev 23 list of annual holy days.

"He who esteems the day - OBSERVES the day for the Lord"

The Bible condemns the idea of resting all 7 days from labor "if he will not work - neither let him eat" -- the idea that Paul was condoning such a life style is against the Bible.

What is more - in Gal 4 some days Paul flatly condemns.

So "in context" this is only about the Bible approved annual days of Lev 23.

in Christ,

Bob[/QUOTE] Sorry, I cant make sense of that..

 

[BobRyan]

I certainly have scriptural evidence: the Council of Jerusalem. Jewish obligations were removed from Gentiles; keeping the Sabbath is certainly not listed as one of their obligations in the letter sent to them.

Did you find anything in the Acts 15 statement Acts 15:1-2 where they were trying to determine "what Christians Jews were supposed to be doing"???

 

[BobRyan]

I certainly have scriptural evidence: the Council of Jerusalem. Jewish obligations were removed from Gentiles; keeping the Sabbath is certainly not listed as one of their obligations in the letter sent to them.

Do you consider "worship of the One True God" - a "Jewish obligation"??

 

[BobRyan]

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68458711, member: 235244"]QUOTE="BobRyan, post: ,"]The weekly Sabbath never mentioned in Romans 14.

One man "regards one day ABOVE the other while another Regards them ALL" - He who REGARDs the day in Romm 14 - observes it.

No one in Rom 14 "Regards no day".

The reference to days in Rom 14 - is to the Bible-approved annual holy days - of Lev 23.[/QUOTE]



One man esteems EVERY DAY and another esteems one day ABOVE another in that Lev 23 list of annual holy days.

"He who esteems the day - OBSERVES the day for the Lord"

The Bible condemns the idea of resting all 7 days from labor "if he will not work - neither let him eat" -- the idea that Paul was condoning such a life style is against the Bible.

What is more - in Gal 4 some days Paul flatly condemns.

So "in context" this is only about the Bible approved annual days of Lev 23.
[/QUOTE]

Rom 14
5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord,

To regard the day -- is to observe the day - in Rom 14.

It is the annual holy day observances of Lev 23 - some of them were optional even for Jews.

One man esteems EVERY DAY and another esteems one day ABOVE another in that Lev 23 list of annual holy days.

"He who esteems the day - OBSERVES the day for the Lord"

The Bible condemns the idea of resting all 7 days from labor "if he will not work - neither let him eat" -- the idea that Paul was condoning such a life style is against the Bible.

What is more - in Gal 4 some days Paul flatly condemns.

So "in context" this is only about the Bible approved annual days of Lev 23.
====================================================
Since when is the Sabbath not a day in your frame of reference?

bugkiller

In the NT it is "The Sabbath"

As it is in Ex 20:8-11.

In Rom 14 one observes one of the annual holy days above another - while another person observes them all. The weekly Sabbath is not part of that list of "optional days" in the OT or in the NT (nor in your own topic of how the RCC views the Ten Commandments).

 

[BobRyan]

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68458633, "]

Acts 13 -- gentiles keeping the Sabbath.
Acts 17 - gentiles keeping the Sabbath
Acts 18 - gentiles keeping the Sabbath

Is 56 is a special promise given to gentiles who keep the Sabbath.

Thus says the Lord:


“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND"

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".

We "gentiles" like to think that we are a big important part of "mankind" -- as it turns out.

[/QUOTE]

I think you're gravely mistaken.

bugkiller

so then... we differ?? I am ok with that.

I simply choose to accept the texts as they read.

 

[BobRyan]

KimT said: ↑
Jesus IS my sabbath. I rest in Him.

Nice.

Jesus said -
"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

Yep He did exactly that. Jesus however didn't say keep the law. See 15:10

bugkiller

Turns out .. Jesus is God and Heb 8:6-11 makes it clear the Ten Commandments are Jesus'

6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
A New Covenant

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.


Jesus is God - at Sinai. Those are HIS commandments.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

 

[BobRyan]

In case interest in the OP point persists - we had this detail raised earlier on this thread.


QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 67315751,]

For example Leo Trese in his book "The Faith Explained" -- commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II -

The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that
====================begin short summary
changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".

page 243

"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

====================================== begin expanded quote
. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

[/QUOTE]

Which addresses the OP

 

[Cribstyl]

Turns out .. Jesus is God and Heb 8:6-11 makes it clear the Ten Commandments are Jesus'

That's not even close to being accurate. We don't expect you to do an inductive study on this chapter, so you will ignore the facts.

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
(The more excellent ministry is a ministry of life compared to the ministry of condemnation and of death. A better covenant ( better implies not the same covenant) with better promises, life rather than death)

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
(If The Ten Commandments had no fault or there would be no reason to abolish it.)
8 For finding fault with them, He says,
(The fault was with the people.)
“
Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
Because the ten is identified both as the covenant not made with the fathers and as the covenant made coming out of Egypt. There is no way the New Covenant would be like the Old.

Jesus is God - at Sinai. Those are HIS commandments.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

LOL.. you're just claiming the words you want to use as if we're ignorant of the context.

Similar to the fact that Paul's commandments to the Corinthians was called the commandments of God, you appear to highjack words and leave the context behind.

 

[BobRyan]

The mere quote of the text is sufficient to give rise to strong objection to it.

 

[BobRyan]

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68460596"]Turns out .. Jesus is God and Heb 8:6-11 makes it clear the Ten Commandments are Jesus'


Hebrews 8

6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
A New Covenant

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.


Jesus is God - at Sinai. Those are HIS commandments.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19[/QUOTE]

because... 'details matter'

That's not even close to being accurate. We don't expect you to do an inductive study on this chapter, so you will ignore the facts.

not in "real life" -- as it turns out.

In real life - I quote the chapter as in the case above.

And I tend to highlight the inconvenient details in it.

 

[BobRyan]

The New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8

1. deals with the LAW of God known to Jeremiah and his readers.
2. deals with the LAW in the Ex 20 covenant made on Sinai
3. Ten Commandments at Sinai - spoken by Christ see Heb 8:6-11.

Just one more reason to quote Rom 3:31 and 1 John 5

"If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Similar to the fact that Paul's commandments to the Corinthians was called the commandments of God, you appear to highjack words and leave the context behind.

Your accusation : "noted"

The facts left out to support the accusation "also noted"

 

[Cribstyl]

The New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8

1. deals with the LAW of God known to Jeremiah and his readers.
2. deals with the LAW in the Ex 20 covenant made on Sinai
3. Ten Commandments at Sinai - spoken by Christ see Heb 8:6-11.

Just one more reason to quote Rom 3:31 and 1 John 5

"If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6

1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith

in Christ,

Bob

For those hooked on phonics; If both Jerimiah 31 and Heb 8 says.... New Covenant, we know it's not the same as the old covenant. If both sources also say; "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;" that eliminates the law from being the New Covenant.
The question remains: What law or laws are to be written on our heart? What the scripture identifies as not written on the heart is what your claim is written on the heart. Why is that?

 

[BukiRob]

For those hooked on phonics; If both Jerimiah 31 and Heb 8 says.... New Covenant, we know it's not the same as the old covenant. If both sources also say; "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;" that eliminates the law from being the New Covenant.
The question remains: What law or laws are to be written on our heart? What the scripture identifies as not written on the heart is what your claim is written on the heart. Why is that?

I find that people who are really fighting against Torah is for the believer have really not spent enough time reading the OT scriptures. There is no way one has an OPEN MINDED reading of it and comes away with any other thought than the Torah is a BLESSING and it is there to give wisdom on how to walk upright before G-d

 

[BobRyan]

For those hooked on phonics; If both Jerimiah 31 and Heb 8 says.... New Covenant, we know it's not the same as the old covenant.

That much is true.

But the LAW of God has to be that which is known to Jeremiah and his intended reader. There is no escaping that fact of Bible exegesis.

The difference is that under the New Covenant the LAW of God is on the heart and mind according "to the actual text".

There are a great many Christians today who would affirm that basic detail in the text - including all those groups listed in my signature line.

 

[Cribstyl]

I find that people who are really fighting against Torah is for the believer have really not spent enough time reading the OT scriptures. There is no way one has an OPEN MINDED reading of it and comes away with any other thought than the Torah is a BLESSING and it is there to give wisdom on how to walk upright before G-d

Don't misrepresent the facts. We all agree that the word of God (included the law)is a blessing, it's holy, it's perfect, just and good. The scriptures say that it was given for righteousness. The scriptures also say that God has established a way of righteousness apart from the law.

Rom 3:21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
Rom 3:22 This righteousness is given through faith
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

 

[Meowzltov]

That's not me nor my intent. Is it not true that only the Jews rejects the New Testament from the bible? That's all

It is NOT true that only the Jews reject the NT, NOR is it true that all Jews reject the NT. For example I am a Jew and I accept the NT.

When you make statements about "ALL Jews" that is when you run the risk of saying something anti-semitic. We are a diverse group.

 

[Meowzltov]

Did you find anything in the Acts 15 statement Acts 15:1-2 where they were trying to determine "what Christians Jews were supposed to be doing"???

Acts 15 is silent on the obligations of Christian Jews, thus affirming that Christian Jews should continue doing what they had been doing, which was keeping the law. Thus what was expected of Christian Jews was different than what was expected of Christian Gentiles.