[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] When should we change our reasoning / beliefs?

[ToddNotTodd]

Do reasonable people claim Zeus is god where you live?

I have no reason to research Zeus as a legitimate god, because I've never come across a reasonable person saying they've experienced his presence or understanding.

Plenty of reasonable people believe in God, so at least its worth researching how God could makes sense of the biggest questions in life. Yes I understand that just because reasonable people believe doesn't mean its true, but at least this is a reason to honestly investigate it for yourself.

I've come across a few reasonable people that believe in Zeus. But as you've said, being reasonable has no bearing on the truth of one's beliefs. Neither does the number of people that believe something. You mentioned that people needed to be "intelligent enough" to disbelieve in a particular god. You've also implied that it's not enough just to research a god. You have to actually believe that a god exists before that god proves his or her existence. At least, that's what you're implying with Christianity.

So why would you want to believe in a false god when you can believe in Zeus? I mean, once you really believe, it becomes clear that Zeus is real.

 

[Chriliman]

I've come across a few reasonable people that believe in Zeus. But as you've said, being reasonable has no bearing on the truth of one's beliefs. Neither does the number of people that believe something. You mentioned that people needed to be "intelligent enough" to disbelieve in a particular god. You've also implied that it's not enough just to research a god. You have to actually believe that a god exists before that god proves his or her existence. At least, that's what you're implying with Christianity.

So why would you want to believe in a false god when you can believe in Zeus? I mean, once you really believe, it becomes clear that Zeus is real.

Yea, if I throw all that I've learned and all my reasoning out the window, sure I can believe in Zeus. Does this seem like an intelligent thing to do? Is this really going to be your argument?

I've made many different points and I can continue making points, but until you start thinking there could be meaning to what I'm saying, my points are going to go in one ear and out the other.

 

[Chriliman]

What is your objective test to determine if a person is "reasonable"?

Bhsmte, my answer to these questions is always going to be to not assume they're wrong, but ask honest questions and get to the bottom of their reasoning and when the person starts not making sense or starts contradicting themselves you begin to realize they are not being reasonable or rational.

Notice you'd be hard pressed to find a point where I've contradicted myself, if you can find where I have please point it out so I can apologize and clarify.

 

[Chriliman]

Plenty of otherwise reasonable people do and believe a lot of surprisingly unreasonable things.
As long as those reasonable people do not present reasonable arguments for their particular beliefs in question there´s nothing for us to investigate.

Well I feel pretty thoroughly investigated, is this because my argument is reasonable? Or is it because its unreasonable?

 

[bhsmte]

Bhsmte, my answer to these questions is always going to be to not assume they're wrong, but ask honest questions and get to the bottom of their reasoning and when the person starts not making sense or starts contradicting themselves you begin to realize they are not being reasonable or rational.

Notice you'd be hard pressed to find a point where I've contradicted myself, if you can find where I have please point it out so I can apologize and clarify.

When did I say you contradicted yourself? Are you putting words in my mouth again?

You talk about asking questions, but these questions are prone to your own bias, because they come from you. What about objective evidence, does this ever play a role?

 

[Chriliman]

When did I say you contradicted yourself? Are you putting words in my mouth again?

You talk about asking questions, but these questions are prone to your own bias, because they come from you. What about objective evidence, does this ever play a role?

I didn't say you did, I said if you find where I have please point it out. Expecting objective evidence kind of when out the window when science starting coming up with ideas like an unprovable singularity and multiple universes, its really getting quite ridiculous what they'll come up with in order to avoid an infinite timeless God that actually explains everything quite nicely.

 

[bhsmte]

I didn't say you did, I said if you find where I have please point it out. Expecting objective evidence kind of when out the window when science starting coming up with ideas like an unprovable singularity and multiple universes, its really getting quite ridiculous what they'll come up with in order to avoid an infinite timeless God that actually explains everything quite nicely.

What does a singularity have to do with this discussion.

Strawman.

 

[anonymous person]

ZEUS OF MOUNT OLYMPUS

Your turn...

How is Zeus evidence of God?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Yea, if I throw all that I've learned and all my reasoning out the window, sure I can believe in Zeus. Does this seem like an intelligent thing to do? Is this really going to be your argument?

I've made many different points and I can continue making points, but until you start thinking there could be meaning to what I'm saying, my points are going to go in one ear and out the other.

What have you learned that precludes you from believing in Zeus? Is it the false things you believe now? As I've said (actually, as you've said), you have to believe before the understanding comes. So it would be silly of you to say that you have to "throw out all that you've learned" when what you think you've learned is based on believing in a false god.

I wonder, what would you say to someone from another faith who tells you that they'd have to throw out all they've learned to believe in the Christian god?

 

[anonymous person]

Any critical examination of the bible is eye opening.

Amen.

 

[anonymous person]

Do you often choose to just go along with what other people believe?

I do. Especially when these people have good reasons for believing what they do and have evidence and changed lives to boot.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

How is Zeus evidence of God?

It isn't. I thought we were playing the "throw out random deities" game.

How is Jesus evidence of a god?

 

[anonymous person]

What have you learned that precludes you from believing in Zeus?

That he is the supreme god in Greek mythology. I do not desire to believe in a mythological character.

That about does it for me.

This of course can be found in most encyclopedias.

Is it the false things you believe now?

You are referencing what precisely?

As I've said (actually, as you've said), you have to believe before the understanding comes. So it would be silly of you to say that you have to "throw out all that you've learned" when what you think you've learned is based on believing in a false god.

This assumes Jesus is a false god.

Prove it please.

I wonder, what would you say to someone from another faith who tells you that they'd have to throw out all they've learned to believe in the Christian god?

I would ask them why they thought that.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

That he is the supreme god in Greek mythology. I do not desire to believe in a mythological character.

That about does it for me.

This of course can be found in most encyclopedias.

Do you believe everything you read in books?

 

[anonymous person]

It isn't. I thought we were playing the "throw out random deities" game.

How is Jesus evidence of a god?

His resurrection from the dead.

 

[anonymous person]

Do you believe everything you read in books?

No. Why?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

His resurrection from the dead.

Your evidence of this is...?

 

[quatona]

Well I feel pretty thoroughly investigated, is this because my argument is reasonable? Or is it because its unreasonable?

1. Which argument would that be?
2. Are you sure you are asking for an honest answer?

 

[anonymous person]

What is your objective test to determine if a person is "reasonable"?

Define what you mean by an objective test and give some examples.

Then we will answer this question.

 

[anonymous person]

Your evidence of this is...?

Empty tomb for one. Need some more?