does anyone listen to Bill Winston or Creflo Dollar?

[Rajah]

The problem is that the world does not show grace. I have all the grace in the world for Creflo. I am not donating one dime to his jet, but I love him and I want to see his ministry flourish. The problem is the world sees these type things as an ideal opportunity to destroy ministers.

I think the world does not really know what grace is about, they all want to claim "faith without works is dead". What works? is what I want to know, the world seems to be addicted to self effort and sweat living, no relevance for God at all....

 

[hhodgson]

God directly ordained the building of His temple. The nation knew that. Not so clear cut with Creflo's luxury jet. The "prosperity message" has gone too far to the extreme. Many who are teaching it should take a step back and read "Midas Touch" by Dad. Kenneth Copeland toned way down what he was teaching after being lovingly admonished by his mentor, K.H.

I agree... "not so clear cut with Creflo's jet." As I said, that's between him and God. Hagin was still a strong believer in prosperity in which he explained it much better in The Midas Touch. He was also very passionate about correcting the abuses that were going on. Unfortunately, many WOF ministers ignored the book. I do agree that Creflo and others should dust off Hagin's book and read it again, and again, if necessary. I hope they all have the book in their library.
​

 

[hhodgson]

The problem is that the world does not show grace. I have all the grace in the world for Creflo. I am not donating one dime to his jet, but I love him and I want to see his ministry flourish. The problem is the world sees these type things as an ideal opportunity to destroy ministers.

The bold part is funny... Not a dime, but we Love him though!

​

 

[reynolds357]

The bold part is funny... Not a dime, but we Love him though!

​

Not a dime toward his jet. I actually donate to his general ministry and have done so for many years. My heart has not as of yet been burdened to donate one dime toward his jet.
The weird thing about it is that I partnered with Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn's efforts to buy jets. I actually bought two separate Citation X partnerships and I partnered with Brother Hinn. I had 4 invitations to be at KCM private airfield when the jet arrived. (scheduling conflicts prevented me from being there) For some reason, I feel the exact opposite about Brother Dollar's jet.

 

[now faith]

The problem is that the world does not show grace. I have all the grace in the world for Creflo. I am not donating one dime to his jet, but I love him and I want to see his ministry flourish. The problem is the world sees these type things as an ideal opportunity to destroy ministers.

To add to this view:

The opinions of the Church and the World, as to how much a person can have are not relevant to God or his ministery

 

[Farm Truck]

thank God for the Gospel of Grace which is the good news of Jesus Christ...

I find it odd that Jesus was not a "gospel of grace" teacher, but rather taught the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The preachers that major on grace are ignoring important parts of the New Testament which makes what they teach "partial gospel".

It's very odd that many who follow this "gospel of grace" sure are worldly and do not seem to be interested in living separated from the world.

But, if one believes in once saved always saved, then I guess it's all good and your lifestyle doesn't matter.

I keep waiting for some of these well known ministries to embrace homosexuals since some of them claim to be Christians. I'm sure satan is going to provide the opportunity for them to be cornered where they will have to make a public statement on the gay issue rather than ignoring it.

These last daze are interesting times indeed.

Andrew Wommack would say, "I haven't arrived yet... but, I'm heading there."

Too bad this guy doesn't have a better understanding of confessing what God says about His people.

If he did, he'd not say that but the following - for starters.


Colossians 1:12
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son

Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[janny108]

I;m really happy to find a church locally that we can talk about Creflo, Joyce and others like them without sort of cringing. And Kenneth Copeland too. I feel a sense of relief

 

[Farm Truck]

When you find a church that judges what these people teach (or any preacher for that matter) by the written Word of God as we are supposed to be doing... then you will have found a good church.

Not too many like that left since many make idols out of TV preachers and accept whatever they say as being God's Word kinda like the catholics accept whatever the pope says as being God's Word.

These last daze are getting interesting in deed.

 

[hhodgson]

I find it odd that Jesus was not a "gospel of grace" teacher, but rather taught the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The preachers that major on grace are ignoring important parts of the New Testament which makes what they teach "partial gospel."

Please explain to us what is the Gospel of the Kingdom (OTHER) than teaching and preaching the "good news" (GRACE) of Jesus Christ? The Gospel of the Kingdom (IS) God's free gift of eternal life through His Son. The "good news" is You don’t have to go through a tremendous amount of religious instruction or observance. It’s a gift. All you must do is (believe and receive). Believe what Jesus has done through His death, burial, and resurrection and receive the cleansing from all your sin and the freedom and liberty it brings. That’s the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Acts 20:24 KJV
"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the Gospel of the Grace of God."​

Here also...

NIV.... "testifying to the (good news) of God's GRACE."
NLT.... "telling others the Good News about the wonderful GRACE of God.
ESV.... "testifying to the (gospel) of God's GRACE.
ISV .... "testifying to the (gospel) of God's GRACE.
DBT.... "to testify the (glad tidings) of the GRACE of God.
WET...."of proclaiming as of supreme importance, the Good News of God's GRACE.
YLT.... "to testify fully the (good news) of the GRACE of God.​

Another way Paul could have said this is, "I am testifying of the Gospel which is the good news of the GRACE of God." In other words, the GOSPEL and GRACE are terms that can be used interchangeably. The good news—or GOSPEL—is the GRACE of God (Grace Equals Gospel). Paul also uses these two term the gospel and grace interchangeably in Galatians. Notice how "the grace of Christ" CLEARLY implies the Gospel. Jesus told Paul, ..." My GRACE (+ nothing) is sufficient for you" 2 Corinthians 12:9.

Galatians 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the GRACE of Christ unto another gospel.​

Galatians was written for the same reason as Romans—to establish the GRACE of God as it's core, or it’s another "Gospel"—which is no Gospel at all Galatians 1:6-7. This is the MAJOR problem the Church has today mixing His pure GRACE with the law. That's the real meaning of partial gospel (IMO).

Hebrews 4:16
"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of GRACE, that we may obtain mercy, and find GRACE to help in time of need"​

We are told to come BOLDLY unto the throne of GRACE. Who sits on the throne of GRACE? Jesus... The author and finisher of our faith. His gift of grace is truly "good news." That’s why it’s called the "Gospel."

Paul said he was not ashamed of the Gospel. Why? "For it is the power of God (GRACE) unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." The GOSPEL is the power of God, and that’s talking about GRACE. Acts 20:24 and Galatians 1:6 both use the terms "gospel" and "grace" interchangeably. It’s saying that when you understand the Gospel, or the GRACE of God, it’ll release the power of God into your life like you've never seen before.

There is NO Grace without Faith... But, much more so, there is NO Faith... without receiving His Amazing GRACE. Someone quoted, "without faith, God's grace is wasted, and without grace, faith is powerless." It's ALL about... GRACE through faith.

Be Blessed to be a BLESSING...

​

 

[janny108]

the finished works of Jesus brought the age of grace, not just to get saved but it covers all of life. Bottom line is who do we trust, ourselves, people or the Lord?

 

[hhodgson]

the finished works of Jesus brought the age of grace, not just to get saved but it covers all of life. Bottom line is who do we trust, ourselves, people or the Lord?

This is awesome janny. Couldn't have said it better.

Be Blessed to be a BLESSING...

​

 

[hhodgson]

It's very odd that many who follow this "gospel of grace" sure are worldly and do not seem to be interested in living separated from the world.

But, if one believes in once saved always saved, then I guess it's all good and your lifestyle doesn't matter.

Being "worldly" and "lifestyle" DOES matter! If they are (TRUELY) saved, they may think they are getting away with it but they are leaving the door WIDE OPEN for Satan's permission to steal, kill and destroy them through sickness, poverty, demonic oppression, etc. They need to repent to get back into God's plan for their lives.

I keep waiting for some of these well known ministries to embrace homosexuals since some of them claim to be Christians. I'm sure satan is going to provide the opportunity for them to be cornered where they will have to make a public statement on the gay issue rather than ignoring it.

If they are (TRUE) Christians then they are "free from sin" (same as us who still do commit sin). And carefully listen to what I just said. I did NOT say "free to sin." "We (ALL) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 4:23.

So while your "waiting" for what the (who's who) will say and do about this sin. I look to the cross when Jesus poured LOVE out of His heart and said, "Forgive them Father for they do not know what they are doing" Luke 23:34. The same thing He did for us on the cross for our sins and the sins of the whole world.

The scriptures you posted REMAINS the same for any Christian that's struggling in sinful acts, or being carnal. (Guess what! That's ALL of us). It's called mercy and grace. MERCY is God NOT punishing us as our sins deserve, and GRACE is God BLESSING us despite the fact that we do not deserve it. Mercy is deliverance from judgment. Grace is extending kindness to the unworthy (underserved, unmerited, unearned favor of God).

Colossians 1:12
"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son."​

Matthew 18:3
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.​

Too bad this guy doesn't have a better understanding of confessing what God says about His people. If he did, he'd not say that.

I have struggled before and SO has everyone else in their walk with God from time to time. That's why I quoted Andrew Wommack when he said, "I haven't arrived but I'm headed there." This guy (Wommack) DOES have great understanding of what he said. As for Word of Faith beliefs, he is one of the best and as for amazing GRACE, he is also one of the best that God has anointed for this hour.

Our spirit is 100% redeemed and is the same spirit that Jesus had. As we (renew our minds) with the WORD of God Romans 12:2, then our soul and body will line up with our redeemed spirit and we will walk as God wants us to walk but we STILL haven't arrived (didn't Paul say that?) and even though we are heading there, we won't fully ARRIVE (spirit, soul, body) until Jesus comes back.

We at WOF believe strongly in repenting of our failures. This also includes everyone I am associated with in the full GRACE gospel. We have learned that the more GRACE you receive, the much less sin will reign or dominate as you live for Him. Romans 6:12.

These last daze are interesting times indeed.

And just as God had planned it ..."for such a time as this." Esther 4:4

Be Blessed to be a BLESSING...

.

​

 

[Farm Truck]

Many Christians today wants Jesus as Savior, but the reject Him as LORD... making Him Lord (He directs your life - Romans 8:14).

We at WOF believe strongly in repenting of our failures.

The exaggerated grace teachers don't teach that so there is a disconnect between WOF which I've always seen as being full Gospel versus exaggerated grace which teaches God never corrects us, and all of our future sin is automatically washed away with out any interaction between us and our High Priest, Jesus Christ in spite of 1 John 1:9, Galatians 6:7,8 and John 5:39,40 among others.

So, what messages is it floating around out there that God spoke of in the end times when He said: the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; (2 Timothy 4:3)???

When preachers start teaching that it is wrong to repent for your sin and we are "perfect" (violating 1 John 1:8) there are major problems with their teaching.

I'm not saying be sin conscience, but we do sin occasionally and the Lord has to correct us as noted in Hebrews 12, and since we reap corruption when we sow to the flesh (sin), we need to repent and receive our cleansing. This is not unto condemnation but unto cleansing.

If God is applying the Blood of Jesus to people without their involvement (Jesus said the Kingdom of God works on seedtime and harvest), then He must apply it to the entire world since is no respector of persons which is how some have come to embrace universalism.

So, technically if someone is truly WOF they would have some issues with exaggerated grace teachers who ignore and even explain away parts of the New Testament as though they no better than God! Some even claim the teachings of Jesus are no longer applicable which demonstrates that they do not understand that we are called to the Gospel of the Kingdom and not the so-called gospel of grace which is arrived at by ignoring foundational teaching of the New Testament.

But, whatever. Like Copeland used to say - people are going to do whatever it is they want to do anyway so don't let me cramp your style!

 

[hhodgson]

The exaggerated grace teachers don't teach that so there is a disconnect between WOF which I've always seen as being full Gospel versus exaggerated grace which teaches God never corrects us, and all of our future sin is automatically washed away with out any interaction between us and our High Priest, Jesus Christ in spite of 1 John 1:9, Galatians 6:7,8 and John 5:39,40 among others.

I don't know of any "exaggerated" grace teachers. Can you put names to them Farm Truck? So we will know who to put on our "watch" list. I personally believe in a more "radical" grace as defined below.

Ex·ag·ger·ated grace defined... Represent (something) as being larger, greater, better, or worse than it really is such as... Overstate, overemphasize, overestimate, overmagnify, overamplify, aggrandize, inflate; embellish, embroider, elaborate, overplay, dramatize, excessive, overdone. etc.

Rad·i·cal grace defined... Thorough, complete, total, comprehensive, exhaustive, sweeping, far-reaching, wide-ranging, extensive, across the board, profound, major, stringent, rigorous, extreme, extremist, fanatical.

Some use the word "hyper-grace" (mainly critics), but I simply use Amazing Grace which was "exceedingly abundant" as said in 1 Timothy 1:14. Also, the teachers that I listen to definitely believe that God does correct us through His Word, and as said earlier, they are strong in repentance. Many believers in Word of Faith also believe that, yes... ALL of our sins are forgiven... past, present and future by the FINISHED works of Christ. If we sin then repentance (interaction) is necessary by (changing your mind) and turning to God.

So, what messages is it floating around out there that God spoke of in the end times when He said: the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; (2 Timothy 4:3)???

If I read you correctly, the modern grace message (as some call it) may be the big deception of the Church in these last days that would cause a "great falling away." I differ in that the... (full meaning) of His Amazing GRACE is manifesting today (He saved the best for last) as the (REAL) full gospel of GRACE message that was (already) watered down throughout the years by being mixed with law. "That" is what creeped back into the gospel and is prevalent in most churches today. The fullness of His GRACE is back for good for those who believe and receive. "When sin abounds, GRACE much more abounds." Romans 5:20

Could this apostasy and the "falling away" in the end times be from a Christless deception? Such as the deception in the video below..? We must be careful if we are insinuating blame.

And, what is really, really odd? As many times as the grace teachers and even our own teachers of (Word of Faith) have answered ALL of the concerns of the critics, they still come to OUR forum with the same arguments over and over again. Are we becoming "dull of hearing"?

Now for the REAL deception...

​

 

[Farm Truck]

Not all "critics" have been answered, there are portions of scripture that TV preachers will never talk about because it does not agree with their easy on sinful lifestyle message. It's better to teach ALL of God's Word, not just the fluff that sells books and brings in offerings.

It's getting hard to tell sinners and saints apart anymore since more and more Christians live just like the world. The proof of being born again is a changed life, and there's too many who have the talk but no walk.

But, whatever... God will judge and send workers of iniquity packing when the time comes. There's a whole lot more in the New Testament than what is being taught by the TV preachers that have become idols to so many.

Carry on, as you were.

 

[hhodgson]

Not all "critics" have been answered, there are portions of scripture that TV preachers will never talk about because it does not agree with their easy on sinful lifestyle message. It's better to teach ALL of God's Word, not just the fluff that sells books and brings in offerings.

And they (critics) may never will be fully answered... to their own understanding. See... here is where we may differ. The Gospel of Grace message that is being taught by the teachers I listen and read from, is NOT "easy on the sinful lifestyle message." Quite the contrary, actually. I will tell you this Farm Truck. (And I'm sticking my neck out here). If you, me or anyone else who claims to be a "Christian" and living a sinful lifestyle... Guess what? They don't know the Jesus I know. They need to get born-again.

It's getting hard to tell sinners and saints apart anymore since more and more Christians live just like the world. The proof of being born again is a changed life, and there's too many who have the talk but no walk.

Absolutely! But, be careful in painting such a large brush over this end-time movement of Grace as being "the great deception" that will cause the great falling away. I don't (fully) agree with everything being taught by these Grace teachers, and that goes along with EVERY movement of God. (BTW, I'm sure you know by now that some are teaching that "the falling away" is the rapture of the Church. Including one prominent Wof teacher of the Word (now deceased). And, I also heard one other favorite of Wof discuss the possibility of it. (Enough on that for now. Another time perhaps!)

Right on target again. The proof is a changed life by manifestating a (lifestyle) of bearing good fruit.

John 15:7-8
""If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, (born-again) ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. "My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples."​

]
and here...

Matthew 7:16
"You will know them by their fruits. (good or bad) The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.… Galatians 5:22-23.​

But, whatever... God will judge and send workers of iniquity packing when the time comes. There's a whole lot more in the New Testament than what is being taught by the TV preachers that have become idols to so many.

I don't believe that these "workers" of iniquities are true Christians at all. That shows a lifestyle of the wrong fruit. To be clear... We Christians (at times) do SIN... and miss the mark (God forbid). Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

And if WE sin, we have an advocate with the Father 1 John 2:1. We repent through Godly sorrow that leads us back to Him... (even though He never left). We are Justified (just-as-if-it-didn't-happen).

The Gospel of Grace (and mercy). Why not? It's ALL about our Saviour. Mercy is God not punishing us as our sins deserve, and grace is God BLESSING us despite the fact that we do not deserve it. Mercy is deliverance from judgment. Grace is extending kindness to the unworthy. (Hey! That's me!)

(btw, has Anyone yet had a chance to view the video in my last post?) For more... just plug "The New God" or "The New Message" into Google and you will see that this NOW is (really being pushed). Spend some time in the website and then you will see that this is... The Great Deception!

By your leave... Sir!

Be Blessed to be a BLESSING...

​

 

[Farm Truck]

I don't believe that these "workers" of iniquities are true Christians at all.

According to what Jesus taught in Mark 4:14-20, it's entirely possible to be born-again and then backslide by allowing things to enter in and choke God's Word out of your life and quit bearing fruit.

Jesus spoke in John 15 of those that are in Him (that was a forward looking statement when He said it) who bare no fruit, the Father takes them away. I've seen people on fire for God and then later they were back on drugs or doing other obviously sinful things so it's not true to simply say anyone living a sinful lifestryle was never saved in the first place or is not a Christian.

They are a Christian, but they have turned away due to having allowed satan to talk them out of their faith and so they quit even trying to walk with the Lord. That's satan's little game is to try and get people to put down God's Word in their lives in favor of anything else that can come before it so they'll start practicing what amounts to idolatry because they now have something they follow in their lives before their relationship with the Lord.

Now, there are those that claim it's OK to drink booze, smoke cigarettes / dope, sex outside of marriage, being gay, and other worldly lusts and it's OK because Jesus has paid for their sin and they'll claim that they are just as saved as anyone else and they are not doers of the Word therefore they are deceiving themselves.

Many of the people doing this are fans of Joseph Prince and Joel Osteen for some odd reason. They won't listen to any preacher that tells them straight up that these lifestyle choices are wrong. I'm not talking about people who are struggling with the things of the flesh and they know it's wrong... no, there are more and more folks that are open about their fleshly lifestyles and claim it's all good since Jesus paid the price. Some even claim their flesh did these things, not them!

Many of these folks claim they are sinless and perfect because Jesus paid for their sin, yet they actually live in un-repentant sin and more of these folks are open about it as they claim OSAS. Based on scripture, these folks will not be attending the marriage supper of the Lamb and very few preachers will speak on this due to being worried that they will lose some of their following and offerings will go down.

When I compare what I hear the major TV ministers teach versus looking at the New Testament as a whole... I find the TV preachers lacking which is why I don't listen to them anymore. And, I've had to cut Copeland off after he started his fascination with the pope claiming this guy is the real deal... sorry but the pope is an idolator - I know this because he adheres to catholicism which is about as far away from being biblical as islam!

And, yes I listen to that guy talking about the messenger and I haven't a clue as to what he is talking about because I do not hear the voice of strangers. Must be some new age stuff that you have to be trippin on acid to be able to connect with the right demon to be able to understand what's being said. That leaves me out.

 

[hhodgson]

According to what Jesus taught in Mark 4:14-20, it's entirely possible to be born-again and then backslide by allowing things to enter in and choke God's Word out of your life and quit bearing fruit.

Yes, a (true) born-again Christian can "back away" from God through sin and unbelief but God won't "back away" from you. ..."I will NEVER leave you or forsake you" Hebrews 13:5. God will always be there, no matter what! If WE walk away from God from the cares of the world would diminish what He has done for us. The "good news" of GRACE is once we recognize what we are doing, we can reverse the process by (looking back to the cross) and repent and stay in the fullness of God.

Your quote in previous post: ...

God will judge and send workers of iniquity packing when the time comes.

As I said earlier... I don't believe that these "workers" of iniquities are true Christians at all. That shows a (lifestyle) of the wrong fruit. I am just responding to your choice of words... "workers of iniquity" which clearly shows in the Bible that the Lord never knew them.

Psalm 6:8​

"Depart from me, all you workers of iniquity; for the LORD has heard the voice of my weeping."​

Matthew7:23​

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity."​

Other translations of iniquity: evildoers, workers of lawlessness, practices lawlessness, you lawbreakers, practices evil, workers of evil, evil people, doers of wickedness.

I've seen people on fire for God and then later they were back on drugs or doing other obviously sinful things so it's not true to simply say anyone living a sinful lifestyle was never saved in the first place or is not a Christian.

Again, true Christians will not live a sinful lifestyle. (Keyword... "True" and "live")

Now, there are those that claim it's OK to drink booze, smoke cigarettes / dope, sex outside of marriage, being gay, and other worldly lusts and it's OK because Jesus has paid for their sin and they'll claim that they are just as saved as anyone else and they are not doers of the Word therefore they are deceiving themselves.

I agree that they are deceiving themselves if this is their lifestyle.

I'm not talking about people who are struggling with the things of the flesh and they know it's wrong. There are more and more folks that are open about their fleshly lifestyles and claim it's all good since Jesus paid the price.

Another of your earlier quote:

The proof of being born again is a changed life, and there's too many who have the talk but no walk.

If they are open about their fleshly lifestyles then where is the changed life? The struggling Christian will repent.

Many of the people doing this are fans of Joseph Prince and Joel Osteen for some odd reason. They won't listen to any preacher that tells them straight up that these lifestyle choices are wrong.

Why would there be an odd reason to listen to Prince and Osteen? As far as I know, neither one teaches this, especially Prince since I listen to him alot. One of the best books written (imo) in recent years is Destined To Reign by Joseph Prince. Thanks for reminding me. I'm just about ready to read it again. I think it's the fourth time. As for Joel Osteen, I admit I don't listen to him often, but... a little while back I went through something and went to my "favorites" to get God's encouragement and the ONLY one I felt that God led me to was... Joel Osteen. Thank God I listened to that still small voice. Osteen's encouragement to me was not short of amazing.

Be Blessed to be a BLESSING...

​

 

[Farm Truck]

God won't "back away" from you

Sure He will... draw close to God and He will draw close to you. The reciprocal of that is walk away from God and He will walk away from you. This is simple seedtime and harvest. Not that God actually moves, but people do. God cannot live in a person while they ignore Him and allow other things to be more important in their lives which is idolatry.

Jesus specifically said in Mark 4:14-20 that persecution, affliction, cares of this world, lusts of other things, and deceitfulness of riches... if allowed to enter in.... will choke the Word out of someone's life and they become unfruitful as in they are not allowing the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ to live in the and walk in them which is the primary purpose of our existence according to the will of God spoken of in 2 Corinthians 6:16.

So, if someone rejects God... He has to let them go since He is the One that gace us free will and this is how people end up in hell. If this is not true, then universalism is trye because the Word says Jesus tasted of death for all men and He is not counting their sin against them... so the deciding factor is us! This is why Jesus said "ye are gods" because we have the God given authority to decide to sow to the flesh, or sow to the Spirit.

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance... but that does not remove the fact that God created us in His image which means what we sow is what we reap and that is free will, and hence satan's little game of trying to deceive people into putting other things before our relationship with God so that relationship starts dying in our life. God cannot force Himself on anyone without being a liar because He clearly stated in Galatians that if we sow to the flesh, we SHALL reap corruption. Anyone who has fallen away from the Lord need to do what Jesus told the pharisees in John 5:39,40 and come to Him so that they may have life.

The "good news" of GRACE is once we recognize what we are doing

Yes, and those that do not, and embrace the world, turning their backs on God will not be attending the marriage supper of the Lamb because they have become workers of iniquity rather than continuing in their relationship with the Lord.

Some even go to church and praise God and are so wrapped up in the affairs of this life their involvement in church life is nothing more than for social purposes as they have no relationship with the Lord. If they did, they would hear the Holy Spirit drawing them closer to the Lord... not closer to this world's ways.

I don't believe that these "workers" of iniquities are true Christians at all.

Then maybe Jesus did not know what He was talking about in Mark 4:14-20 and in John 15.

I'm sure you are a brother in the Lord but forgive me if I stick with what Jesus said about this. I understand that many today believe that what Jesus personally taught was to the Jews only... but seeing He taught the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, everything He taught is of major, major relevance to those that love God more than men.

Why would there be an odd reason to listen to Prince and Osteen?

What is odd to me is that neither of these guys teach the whole counsel of God as in teachings ALL that the New Testament teaches.

This enables those that believe they are "gay christians" (or embrace other sins of the flesh as tought in the NT) to continue believing that because they can only follow those that will never say certain lifestyles are wrong on a consistant basis. Sure they may say it in an interview or something, but the Gospel of the Kingdom includes teaching what happens when someone does not walk with God... which Jesus and Paul both taught.

Most TV preachers today would never teach what many would call "negitive" messages... but in reality, God's Wisdom does warn of what happens when we do not walk in relationship with God.

The one world religion is being formed in the minds of men now and TV preachers are going to have to choose what side they are on because Jesus came to bring division as in who are going to be His sheep and who are going to be the devil's goats.

It's going to be interesting, especially seeing Brother Copeland speaking so highly of that idolator the pope. He knows better than to agree with that, but apparently he no longer knows better.

There's too many warnings God put in the New Testament that are being ignored by the big ministries for some odd reason. Apparently, God knew what He was talking about when He described the ends times... cause it's happening now!

 

[Farm Truck]

Sorry for the rant guys. I guess I just needed to vent a little.