New Christian needs help with denominations (as in terms of what I align with the most)

[Guru03]

I have been a Christian for a few months and I don't know where I would lean most in terms of denominations.

First of all: before I explain to you guys what I believe, I think that denominations do not affect salvation and that they are just groups of like minded christians and churches that often network together, in fellowship (I also see the denominations put together as a beautiful picture of the universal church [the invisible church of all Christians]).

Despite having interdenominational tendencies; I would like some help in halfway understanding with what denominations I align with the most (largely for resources and fellowship) , so that's why I made this thread. It will possibly help in future church searches (when I get my driver's license) when I have some ideas on where to start the search.

Here are my Christian beliefs:

Core beliefs:

- Salvation by faith alone (personal relationship with Jesus)

- Heaven & Hell are real

- Humans are born sinful but raised to life through a relationship with Jesus

- The Bible is spiritually literal but not everything is to be taken literally and the context of the culture must be considered when reading it (Ex: The verse [I don't know my Bible] in which Jesus said cut your eye out if it causes you to sin- I see that as in don't literally cut your eye out but take neccesary measures to help you avoid sinning [as in maybe doing things differently if it helps you to not sin in the area that you're struggling with]).

- Since all humans are under the same spiritual authority, all humans are created equally and in God's desires (no one is better than anyone else, but God is better than us humans)

Secondary/ Tertiary beliefs:

- God's presence is literally in the communion (bread and liquid)

- Confession can be through any method (by yourself or with another Christian [clergy included]); it's a personal choice- the faith in Jesus is what counts.

- Baptism is optional ( it's a good idea though) and the method is your personal choice.

- If you do not have the intellectual capacity (trying to be sympathetic; I don't know which terms are the proper ones today) needed to understand the Gospel or you are too young to understand it (no certain age, it's based on when you understand the concept of sin [commonly referred to as the difference between right and wrong]) and you die or the rapture happens, you automatically go to Heaven.

- Women in ministry [and even pastor-ships] is completely okay, it's the calling from God that matters.

- Speaking in tongues is Biblical as long as it's unplanned and it's a real world language

- The genders are equal (I am an egalitarian).

- Bible versions are personal preference.

- Denominations are de-facto personal preference and where God leads you.



Let God be with us in this thread!

 

[Albion]

I have been a Christian for a few months and I don't know where I would lean most in terms of denominations.

First of all: before I explain to you guys what I believe, I think that denominations do not affect salvation and that they are just groups of like minded christians and churches that often network together, in fellowship (I also see the denominations put together as a beautiful picture of the universal church [the invisible church of all Christians]).

Despite having interdenominational tendencies; I would like some help in halfway understanding with what denominations I align with the most (largely for resources and fellowship) , so that's why I made this thread. It will possibly help in future church searches (when I get my driver's license) when I have some ideas on where to start the search.

Hello...and thank you for bringing this to us.

I want first to say that in religion, words have a lot of shades of meanings, nuances, and the like, so EXACTLY how a person puts a concept can make a big difference, and in the case of your post, what you meant may not be quite what I think you mean. Anyway, I'll try to give you my best estimate based on what you've written. By the way, I do appreciate that you tried to be as specific as possible. It's more than most people do.

Second, there probably is no denomination that fits your belief profile exactly. That is not the end of the search, but just something to keep in mind. For example, believing in the real presence of Christ in the bread and wine/juice of Communion and NOT thinking Baptism to be necessary usually do not go together.

Offhand, I'd say that the Episcopal Church is the one that looks likely to come the closest to all that you've laid out. It is, of course, highly ceremonial and you didn't comment on that aspect of your choice. But one of the other mainline, generally liberal, Protestant churches could well be the answer too--United Methodist, Evangelical Lutheran, Presbyterian (USA) are examples. Possibly also the Evangelical Free Church or the Evangelical Covenant Church.

Something in me wants to ask if you'd give up your commitment to any one of the Secondary/Tertiary beliefs listed...because there are some conflicts there and I don't know which way to think you should go. Most possibilities would be OK except that there'd be at least one of these issues that is very Uncharacteristic of that church no matter which one is suggested.

 

[Guru03]

I would relent (meaning that they are not that big of a deal to me) on every secondary/tertiary belief except for egalitarianism. I admit, my Christian beliefs are often a mixture of different denominations' beliefs based on what I know about my faith [in terms of God, the bible, Jesus, etc.]. My unusual mixture of Chriatian beliefs comes from my spiritual background which involves being in a conservative traditional SBC church my whole life but I dabbled into IFB (briefly) and the seeker movement (a lot longer than I did IFB) [not my choice, I will leave when I have a driver's license and can resign from a volunteer but I am there for now]. I faked being Christian by being a good kid for 17.25 years (I don't know why I did so) until I began a personal relationship with Jesus in February (2 friends of mine in the seeker movement led me to Jesus). So that's 17 years in a nutshell.

 

[Architeuthus]

Offhand, I'd say that the Episcopal Church is the one that looks likely to come the closest to all that you've laid out. It is, of course, highly ceremonial and you didn't comment on that aspect of your choice. But one of the other mainline, generally liberal, Protestant churches could well be the answer too--United Methodist, Evangelical Lutheran, Presbyterian (USA) are examples.

Sounds that way to me too, although every denominational or nondenominational group I know of will find some of your beliefs strange (and, in the long term, I think you will wind up backing off either on some of your primary beliefs, or on some of the secondary ones).

For example, the Episcopal Church and the other "mainline, generally liberal, Protestant churches" would not believe in a "rapture."

 

[GoingByzantine]

I agree with Albion, the Episcopal Church is the first thing that comes to mind in your case.

 

[Albion]

I would relent (meaning that they are not that big of a deal to me) on every secondary/tertiary belief except for egalitarianism.

Then I think my first thought (Episcopal) would still be at the top of the list.

 

[jinc1019]

I have been a Christian for a few months and I don't know where I would lean most in terms of denominations.

First of all: before I explain to you guys what I believe, I think that denominations do not affect salvation and that they are just groups of like minded christians and churches that often network together, in fellowship (I also see the denominations put together as a beautiful picture of the universal church [the invisible church of all Christians]).

Despite having interdenominational tendencies; I would like some help in halfway understanding with what denominations I align with the most (largely for resources and fellowship) , so that's why I made this thread. It will possibly help in future church searches (when I get my driver's license) when I have some ideas on where to start the search.

Here are my Christian beliefs:

Core beliefs:

- Salvation by faith alone (personal relationship with Jesus)

- Heaven & Hell are real

- Humans are born sinful but raised to life through a relationship with Jesus

- The Bible is spiritually literal but not everything is to be taken literally and the context of the culture must be considered when reading it (Ex: The verse [I don't know my Bible] in which Jesus said cut your eye out if it causes you to sin- I see that as in don't literally cut your eye out but take neccesary measures to help you avoid sinning [as in maybe doing things differently if it helps you to not sin in the area that you're struggling with]).

- Since all humans are under the same spiritual authority, all humans are created equally and in God's desires (no one is better than anyone else, but God is better than us humans)

Secondary/ Tertiary beliefs:

- God's presence is literally in the communion (bread and liquid)

- Confession can be through any method (by yourself or with another Christian [clergy included]); it's a personal choice- the faith in Jesus is what counts.

- Baptism is optional ( it's a good idea though) and the method is your personal choice.

- If you do not have the intellectual capacity (trying to be sympathetic; I don't know which terms are the proper ones today) needed to understand the Gospel or you are too young to understand it (no certain age, it's based on when you understand the concept of sin [commonly referred to as the difference between right and wrong]) and you die or the rapture happens, you automatically go to Heaven.

- Women in ministry [and even pastor-ships] is completely okay, it's the calling from God that matters.

- Speaking in tongues is Biblical as long as it's unplanned and it's a real world language

- The genders are equal (I am an egalitarian).

- Bible versions are personal preference.

- Denominations are de-facto personal preference and where God leads you.



Let God be with us in this thread!

I think more information is probably still needed for a really good answer to be given. Episcopal may not make sense depending on the OP's answer to a couple of questions:

1. What is your view of homosexual sex? The Episcopal Church has now redefined marriage to include homosexual relationships. It also says homosexual sex is not sinful if practiced in a loving, committed, homosexual relationship (now presumably a marriage? I am not sure. TEC has not nailed down its position on this, but it does make it clear that it supports homosexual sex.

2. What is your view of predestination? Do you lean Calvinism, Lutheranism, Arminianism, Molinism, some other form? How important is predestination to you? This answer could narrow your choices a great deal.

 

[Guru03]

I think more information is probably still needed for a really good answer to be given. Episcopal may not make sense depending on the OP's answer to a couple of questions:

1. What is your view of homosexual sex? The Episcopal Church has now redefined marriage to include homosexual relationships. It also says homosexual sex is not sinful if practiced in a loving, committed, homosexual relationship (now presumably a marriage? I am not sure. TEC has not nailed down its position on this, but it does make it clear that it supports homosexual sex.

2. What is your view of predestination? Do you lean Calvinism, Lutheranism, Arminianism, Molinism, some other form? How important is predestination to you? This answer could narrow your choices a great deal.

I believe that Homosexual sex and homosexual dating relationships are sinful and is not greater/worse than other sin (in the same way that I believe that all sexual activity outside of a 1 man 1 woman marriage is sinful)- but that every sin except failing to have a personal relationship with Jesus is equal. I do not think that homosexual behavior will send someone to hell or prevent them from being saved.

My view of predestination is that a person makes a decision to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord & Savior (believing that he is the son of God and that Jesus paid the price for your sin: past, present, and future). With that being said, I think that God knows who will and will not be saved in the end; however, God wants/selects everyone to be saved but only some choose to accept the free gift of God's grace.

The only thing about predestination that is important to me is the fact that humans have complete control over the choice on whether or not they choose to accept the free gift of God's grace by accepting Jesus Christ (through believing that He is the son of God and that he paid the full price for their sins). As long as they believe that someone has the choice of receiving Jesus- the rest of their predestination stance does not matter to me personally.

 

[jinc1019]

I believe that Homosexual sex and homosexual dating relationships are sinful and is not greater/worse than other sin (in the same way that I believe that all sexual activity outside of a 1 man 1 woman marriage is sinful)- but that every sin except failing to have a personal relationship with Jesus is equal. I do not think that homosexual behavior will send someone to hell or prevent them from being saved.

My view of predestination is that a person makes a decision to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord & Savior (believing that he is the son of God and that Jesus paid the price for your sin: past, present, and future). With that being said, I think that God knows who will and will not be saved in the end; however, God wants/selects everyone to be saved but only some choose to accept the free gift of God's grace.

The only thing about predestination that is important to me is the fact that humans have complete control over the choice on whether or not they choose to accept the free gift of God's grace by accepting Jesus Christ (through believing that He is the son of God and that he paid the full price for their sins). As long as they believe that someone has the choice of receiving Jesus- the rest of their predestination stance does not matter to me personally.

Based on all of this information, the Episcopal Church doesn't make much sense.

If you're interested in being in a church where both infants and adults can be baptized, then I'd recommend the Wesleyan Church or the Church of the Nazarene, depending on how important the "real presence" doctrine is to you. Neither church is really going to teach that, even though both have to some extent in their very distant past and even though you will find some who still hold to it.

If you're looking for a church that has stronger sacramental theology, I'd recommend a conservative United Methodist Church, if one is nearby (some areas have very liberal UMC churches). The UMC does not have a really strong sacramental theology, but it is more sacramental than many other churches, including most of American evangelicalism. Lutherans have some very strong beliefs about the Lord's Supper, but they are not going to allow adult baptism and they do believe God predestines some to salvation, although they are also paradoxically believers in God wanting to save all people. They have a very unique take on predestination.

The only church that would probably fit the sacramental emphasis you want that is also conservative and NOT monergistic (like Lutherans and Calvinists) is the newer Anglican churches, such as continuing Anglican churches or the Anglican Church in North America. If believer's baptism is important as an option, then Wesleyan/Church of the Nazarene is the best choice, in my opinion.

 

[Guru03]

Based on all of this information, the Episcopal Church doesn't make much sense.

If you're interested in being in a church where both infants and adults can be baptized, then I'd recommend the Wesleyan Church or the Church of the Nazarene, depending on how important the "real presence" doctrine is to you. Neither church is really going to teach that, even though both have to some extent in their very distant past and even though you will find some who still hold to it.

If you're looking for a church that has stronger sacramental theology, I'd recommend a conservative United Methodist Church, if one is nearby (some areas have very liberal UMC churches). The UMC does not have a really strong sacramental theology, but it is more sacramental than many other churches, including most of American evangelicalism. Lutherans have some very strong beliefs about the Lord's Supper, but they are not going to allow adult baptism and they do believe God predestines some to salvation, although they are also paradoxically believers in God wanting to save all people. They have a very unique take on predestination.

The only church that would probably fit the sacramental emphasis you want that is also conservative and NOT monergistic (like Lutherans and Calvinists) is the newer Anglican churches, such as continuing Anglican churches or the Anglican Church in North America. If believer's baptism is important as an option, then Wesleyan/Church of the Nazarene is the best choice, in my opinion.

When I visited Seacoast Church in Charleston on vacation, I received communion, lighted the candle, wrote a prayer and put it on a cross (whatever type of stuff that is called) - it was a very Spiritual and cathartic expetience; needless to say I felt closer to God afterwards so that stuff is a huge plus for me in a church (I've visited a church without the stuff [NewSpring] and felt close to God there too. By the way, I like either the contemporary stuff regardless of the rituals or the traditional stuff if the have the rituals [communion and the like] (which I don't know the proper word for). The church I've grown up in is traditional SBC (no liturgy) so I have not experienced the power/presence of God personally in any of their services (so anything like the church I've grown up in I would hesitate about).


What is a sacramental emphasis and what do you mean by that (I have never heard of that before)?

By the way, What is monogereatic and the opposite of that?

Thanks for everything.

 

[jinc1019]

When I visited Seacoast Church in Charleston on vacation, I received communion, lighted the candle, wrote a prayer and put it on a cross (whatever type of stuff that is called) - it was a very Spiritual and cathartic expetience; needless to say I felt closer to God afterwards so that stuff is a huge plus for me in a church (I've visited a church without the stuff [NewSpring] and felt close to God there too. By the way, I like either the contemporary stuff regardless of the rituals or the traditional stuff if the have the rituals [communion and the like] (which I don't know the proper word for). The church I've grown up in is traditional SBC (no liturgy) so I have not experienced the power/presence of God personally in any of their services (so anything like the church I've grown up in I would hesitate about).


What is a sacramental emphasis and what do you mean by that (I have never heard of that before)?

By the way, What is monogereatic and the opposite of that?

Thanks for everything.

Hi. Happy to help.

Sacramental means a focus on the sacraments as more than just symbols. As you know, Baptists and many others see the sacraments as nothing other than ordinances, or things we do in memory of Christ. Historically, the church has always held a higher view of the sacraments, with a lot of nuances between the different groups. You mentioned that you believe Christ is present in the Lord's Supper. That's a sacramental view. The opposite view would be memorialism, sometimes called Zwinglianism (named after Huldrych Zwingli, a Swiss theologian who held that view, although this is not totally accurate. If you're interested, I can give you more information on this.)

Monergism is the belief that faith comes from God and that man ultimately contributes nothing, including assenting or rejecting, to it. Man simply receives faith. If man doesn't have faith, it's because God didn't give it to him yet. Martin Luther, John Calvin, and St. Augustine are the most famous monergists. You are not, based on what you said, a monergist. You're a synergist, meaning you believe man must work with God's Spirit to produce faith.

Churches that practice monergism are: Lutherans, continental Reformed churches, and Presbyterian churches. Most other churches are in some sense synergistic, although some will deny the use of these kinds of terms.

If you enjoyed the kind of worship you described in your post when traveling to Charleston, I think Anglicanism is the right denomination for you. You will find there are many different kinds of Anglicans and Anglican worship, but they are definitely known for the kind of worship you described above. If no Anglican Church in North America parishes exist in your area and you don't feel comfortable being in the Episcopal Church because it tends to take some very liberal positions, especially on sexuality, then I would think Methodist is the next best bet, with Wesleyanism following behind that.

 

[Albion]

Based on all of this information, the Episcopal Church doesn't make much sense....The only church that would probably fit the sacramental emphasis you want that is also conservative and NOT monergistic (like Lutherans and Calvinists) is the newer Anglican churches, such as continuing Anglican churches or the Anglican Church in North America.

The sticking points there would be that "guru" had written in the OP about his preferences/beliefs this way:
"Baptism is optional ( it's a good idea though) and the method is your personal choice.

- Women in ministry [and even pastor-ships] is completely okay, it's the calling from God that matters.

- The genders are equal (I am an egalitarian)."

None of this really leaves either the Continuing Anglican churches or the ACNA as possibilities, even though guru called these issues of secondary importance to him.

All things considered (or reconsidered), the Methodist suggestion may be the best.

 

[graceandpeace]

I tend to agree with Albion. I think the Episcopal Church overall will still better fit the needs of Guru03, as the liturgy & ritual tends to be stronger here than in the United Methodist Church (personal experience is talking here). However, the UMC is also a good option.

The sticking points there would be that "guru" had written in the OP about his preferences/beliefs this way:
"Baptism is optional ( it's a good idea though) and the method is your personal choice.

- Women in ministry [and even pastor-ships] is completely okay, it's the calling from God that matters.

- The genders are equal (I am an egalitarian)."

None of this really leaves either the Continuing Anglican churches or the ACNA as possibilities, even though guru called these issues of secondary importance to him.

All things considered (or reconsidered), the Methodist suggestion may be the best.

 

[jinc1019]

I tend to agree with Albion. I think the Episcopal Church overall will still better fit the needs of Guru03, as the liturgy & ritual tends to be stronger here than in the United Methodist Church (personal experience is talking here). However, the UMC is also a good option.

I think the TEC is a hard sell now given that the OP opposes gay marriage and TEC supports it.

 

[Albion]

I think the TEC is a hard sell now given that the OP opposes gay marriage and TEC supports it.

That's right. At first, it seemed the logical choice, but as more information came out, it didn't. And frankly, a review of all the posts makes me think that the Episcopal Church (and the other Anglican churches) would be uncomfortably ritualistic and ceremonial for our inquirer in any case.

Right now, I have to agree that the best choice looks more like Methodism, either the UMC or Free Methodist Church, I'd guess.

 

[graceandpeace]

It really depends on what Guru's priorities are.

Equality of men & women are supported by both the Episcopal Church & the United Methodist Church. Women may be ordained, etc.

The sense of creating a "sacred space" - the candle lighting & other aspects of liturgical worship - varies from church to church. Overall, the Episcopal Church is more consistently ritualistic, with a common liturgy.

The place of gay persons in the life of the church is not clear cut in the United Methodist Church. Many congregations are affirming or otherwise are working toward full inclusion (I.e. Reconciling Ministries Network). The pastor who married his gay son was later reinstated. Etc. From what I've "heard," if it were up to the UMC in the US they would likely move toward an official policy affirming gay relationships - officially allow ministers to marry couples, etc. It will be interesting to watch what happens at their next denomination-wide meeting, I think in 2016.

Of course the Episcopal Church has recently officially expanded marriage to make it open to gay couples as well, after previously authorizing a trial blessing for SS couples back in 2012. Whether the marriage rite will be available to SS couples will be up to the bishop in the diocese. That is the newest policy from the General Convention.

Taking both churches into consideration on this issue, I would say the United Methodist Church will ultimately follow the path of the Episcopal Church, PCUSA, etc in some form. So if Guru can't tolerate the possibility of a congregation accepting gay relationships, then neither church I think will be an option in the long run. If Guru places higher priority on some of the other issues mentioned, then either church could be a spiritual home.

I think the TEC is a hard sell now given that the OP opposes gay marriage and TEC supports it.

 

[jinc1019]

It really depends on what Guru's priorities are.

Equality of men & women are supported by both the Episcopal Church & the United Methodist Church. Women may be ordained, etc.

The sense of creating a "sacred space" - the candle lighting & other aspects of liturgical worship - varies from church to church. Overall, the Episcopal Church is more consistently ritualistic, with a common liturgy.

The place of gay persons in the life of the church is not clear cut in the United Methodist Church. Many congregations are affirming or otherwise are working toward full inclusion (I.e. Reconciling Ministries Network). The pastor who married his gay son was later reinstated. Etc. From what I've "heard," if it were up to the UMC in the US they would likely move toward an official policy affirming gay relationships - officially allow ministers to marry couples, etc. It will be interesting to watch what happens at their next denomination-wide meeting, I think in 2016.

Of course the Episcopal Church has recently officially expanded marriage to make it open to gay couples as well, after previously authorizing a trial blessing for SS couples back in 2012. Whether the marriage rite will be available to SS couples will be up to the bishop in the diocese. That is the newest policy from the General Convention.

Taking both churches into consideration on this issue, I would say the United Methodist Church will ultimately follow the path of the Episcopal Church, PCUSA, etc in some form. So if Guru can't tolerate the possibility of a congregation accepting gay relationships, then neither church I think will be an option in the long run. If Guru places higher priority on some of the other issues mentioned, then either church could be a spiritual home.

I agree with much of what you say here, but not the concluding paragraph. I am 100 percent certain the UMC will NOT follow the path of the PCUSA, TEC, etc. on gay marriage. The parts of the UMC that are declining are all more "liberal" and the parts that are expanding are more conservative, especially those in Africa, etc. Because delegates for their General Conventions are based on the size of a district, the African representatives have been growing with every convention. Eventually liberals will have to leave (probably for TEC) in order to get what they want in regards to gay marriage. It's only a matter of time.

 

[RainsInApril]

I agree with Jinc about the UMC. I believe that a split or liberal exodus would be far more likely than a UMC affirmation of SSM, given their global denominational structure. That said, affirming pastors and congregations aren't hard to find, especially in certain parts of the country.

 

[GK]

Since this is three months old, ill write a general response to new christians in this predicament:

Don't worry about denomination or "picking" a church. As a new christian, your views and beliefs are going to be changed, assuming you are open to god & community working in you.

Instead, do you have friends, coworkers, family, or other acquaintances who go to church? Ask if you can visit with them for a few weeks. Finding a church where you will be welcomed into community is more important than finding one that has the right teaching fit. You're more likely to find community fit with people you are already in community with.