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Do you agree with this statement?

Albion

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"Without the Virgin Mary, there would be no Jesus Christ. Without the Virgin Mary there would be no Mother Church."

Yes or No?
But by the same reasoning, without St. Anne (Mary's mother) there wouldn't be any of those things either, so are we amiss for not swooning over her and ascribing all manner of supernatural powers to her, too? The reasoning would hold true about Assumptions, Immaculate Conceptions, etc. etc. just as much as for Mary.
 
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Rick Otto

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But by the same reasoning, without St. Anne (Mary's mother) there wouldn't be any of those things either, so are we amiss for not swooning over her and ascribing all manner of supernatural powers to her, too? The reasoning would hold true about Assumptions, Immaculate Conceptions, etc. etc. just as much as for Mary.
Makes ya wonder how full of grace Mary's mom had to be... three quarters?
The "hydraulics of grace"... sacred science or sacred cow?
 
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patricius79

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But by the same reasoning, without St. Anne (Mary's mother) there wouldn't be any of those things either, so are we amiss for not swooning over her and ascribing all manner of supernatural powers to her, too? The reasoning would hold true about Assumptions, Immaculate Conceptions, etc. etc. just as much as for Mary.

That's something to think about. But you would also agree that--as far as we know from Scripture--no one was given the chance to be the Mother of God but Mary, right?
 
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Rick Otto

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That's something to think about. But you would also agree that--as far as we know from Scripture--no one was given the chance to be the Mother of God but Mary, right?
It would be more accurate to say scripture tells us of no one else. Scripture affirms our ignorance, not our knowledge on this.
 
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Albion

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Makes ya wonder how full of grace Mary's mom had to be... three quarters?
The "hydraulics of grace"... sacred science or sacred cow?
Maybe if you marry a 3/4 sin-free woman with a 3/4 sin-free man, you get an immaculate child one out of every two or four times, or whatever it is--like blood types.
 
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patricius79

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It would be more accurate to say scripture tells us of no one else. Scripture affirms our ignorance, not our knowledge on this.

Why do you think he chose Mary? And why do you think Mary said "yes"?

I also wonder what would have happened if Mary had said no.
 
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patricius79

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Maybe if you marry a 3/4 sin-free woman with a 3/4 sin-free man, you get an immaculate child one out of every two or four times, or whatever it is--like blood types.

Is this sarcasm?

Certainly, there is no absolute necessity for God's Mother to be sinless. Because God is Sovereign and Mary is a creature, there is no absolute necessity for God to have become Incarnate through Mary.

Because God is sovereign, there is likewise no limitation on how much grace He could give to Mary.

God did choose Mary. And Mary did choose to say "yes". Do you recognize any weight to that?
 
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bbbbbbb

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Why do you think he chose Mary? And why do you think Mary said "yes"?

I also wonder what would have happened if Mary had said no.

This raises the question as to why God chose any of us. Were we better sinners than the rest of humanity? I know that I am so far from God's righteous standard that I have no valid reason to think that God chose me because I am so good. The reality is that I would have never chosen God on my own, but He chose me.
 
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patricius79

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This raises the question as to why God chose any of us. Were we better sinners than the rest of humanity? I know that I am so far from God's righteous standard that I have no valid reason to think that God chose me because I am so good. The reality is that I would have never chosen God on my own, but He chose me.

right. I agree. But why did He choose Mary? And how much grace did Mary need to say "yes"?
 
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Rick Otto

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Why do you think he chose Mary? And why do you think Mary said "yes"?

I also wonder what would have happened if Mary had said no.
Foreknowledge,...
Good parenting...
I'm sure it would've served God's purpose somehow... you know how it is, omnipotence, onmniscience, omnipresence,... impossible to top that combo.
So I'm not only not interested, I'm tempted to wonder why do it,... too many practical concerns.
Thanks anyway.
 
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Rick Otto

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Maybe if you marry a 3/4 sin-free woman with a 3/4 sin-free man, you get an immaculate child one out of every two or four times, or whatever it is--like blood types.
You and I belong on call as ecclesiastical consultants.

Text Pope Francis and get back to me .
 
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Rick Otto

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Is this sarcasm?

Certainly, there is no absolute necessity for God's Mother to be sinless. Because God is Sovereign and Mary is a creature, there is no absolute necessity for God to have become Incarnate through Mary.

Because God is sovereign, there is likewise no limitation on how much grace He could give to Mary.

God did choose Mary. And Mary did choose to say "yes". Do you recognize any weight to that?
Absolutely.
Mucho gravitas.
Parade!
 
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prodromos

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The title just means that she was the mother of Jesus...who was also God.
I think it is more accurate to state that she is the mother of Jesus...who is also God.
 
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bbbbbbb

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The title just means that she was the mother of Jesus...who was also God.

I think it is more accurate to state that she is the mother of Jesus...who is also God.

Jesus is several things and has many titles and roles. It seems misleading to me to take a title (God) which can be applied, and is typically applied, to another member of the trinity and use it in this manner. Would Mary seem as significant if we referred to her as the Morther of the High Priest?
 
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prodromos

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Jesus is several things and has many titles and roles. It seems misleading to me to take a title (God) which can be applied, and is typically applied, to another member of the trinity and use it in this manner. Would Mary seem as significant if we referred to her as the Morther of the High Priest?
The title of "mother of God" (theotokos) was applied to Mary in response to the heretical belief that Jesus was not God and man in one person. It is not a statement about Mary but is in defense of Jesus' divinity. If some had claimed that Jesus was not the High Priest, perhaps Mary would have been given such a title as you suggest.

edit to add: It is not in the slightest misleading to we who use the expression, and it is something we have made sure to clarify every time it crops up in these threads, of which you are no doubt aware.
 
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