My Graduate Challenge

[bhsmte]

Keeps the pencil sharpened!

Proverbs 27:17a Iron sharpeneth iron;

How would you answer your own challenge AV?

 

[AV1611VET]

How would you answer your own challenge AV?

You mean this challenge?

That's a toughie!

For one thing, I'm not a YEC.

But if I had to give an answer -- and no offense to my YEC brothers & sisters -- I would say the chances are low.

But only because the Bible says:

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

And for the record, I believe the same principle applies across the board.

 

[TLK Valentine]

More like faith, as in believing something, even when evidence says otherwise.

Thus blurring the lines between faith, delusion, and plain old being wrong.

 

[AV1611VET]

Thus blurring the lines between faith, delusion, and plain old being wrong.

What's your definition?

Can you give me one that doesn't exclude martyrdom of men whom God considers "the world not worthy"?

 

[TLK Valentine]

What's your definition?

The belief in something in the absence of evidence (as opposed to your definition, which is in spite of contrary evidence. . . I, personally, don't think spite is a necessary component of faith)

Can you give me one that doesn't exclude martyrdom of men whom God considers "the world not worthy"?

I just did. Your fetish for martyrdom is irrelevant.

 

[Loudmouth]

What's your definition?

Can you give me one that doesn't exclude martyrdom of men whom God considers "the world not worthy"?

The definition I have always used for faith is a belief held in the absence of evidence. I define delusion as a belief that is held in contradiction to 200 years of solid scientific evidence.

 

[AV1611VET]

The belief in something in the absence of evidence ...

Well ... I asked ... didn't I?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

The definition I have always used for faith is a belief held in the absence of evidence. I define delusion as a belief that is held in contradiction to 200 years of solid scientific evidence.

I consider faith to be one's commitment. I place my faith in a chair when I sit in it. The fact that I have lots of evidence in favor of the chair's ability to hold me does NOT mean "faith" isn't a good word to use when I sit in the chair - I still placed my faith in it, even though I have evidence. On the other hand, if I dread sitting in the chair, and refuse to sit in it, in spite of my knowledge of its strength, I lack faith. Or if I am told a chair is flimsy, and I see it's flimsy, and I sit in it anyway, I showed my faith. And I suffer the consequences.

So I never deny that I have faith in science; I figure the faith is pretty much justified by the evidence. I also have faith in God, and I even have evidence that I accept for doing that.

Oh, and "faith" also needs to be qualified as to what the faith is, exactly. I have faith in the math my calculator does, but I don't trust the fate of my soul to my calculator.

 

[bhsmte]

I consider faith to be one's commitment. I place my faith in a chair when I sit in it. The fact that I have lots of evidence in favor of the chair's ability to hold me does NOT mean "faith" isn't a good word to use when I sit in the chair - I still placed my faith in it, even though I have evidence. On the other hand, if I dread sitting in the chair, and refuse to sit in it, in spite of my knowledge of its strength, I lack faith. Or if I am told a chair is flimsy, and I see it's flimsy, and I sit in it anyway, I showed my faith. And I suffer the consequences.

So I never deny that I have faith in science; I figure the faith is pretty much justified by the evidence. I also have faith in God, and I even have evidence that I accept for doing that.

Oh, and "faith" also needs to be qualified as to what the faith is, exactly. I have faith in the math my calculator does, but I don't trust the fate of my soul to my calculator.

The way you use the word faith then would tell me; your faith in something can be either; weak, moderate or strong, depending on the evidence you have available to support the faith?

Myself personally, I don't use the term faith, to believe in something I have a good deal of evidence to support, I tend to use the term; trust. I trust my car will start in the morning, I trust the light switch will turn the light on, etc. etc...

 

[Loudmouth]

I consider faith to be one's commitment. I place my faith in a chair when I sit in it. The fact that I have lots of evidence in favor of the chair's ability to hold me does NOT mean "faith" isn't a good word to use when I sit in the chair - I still placed my faith in it, even though I have evidence. On the other hand, if I dread sitting in the chair, and refuse to sit in it, in spite of my knowledge of its strength, I lack faith. Or if I am told a chair is flimsy, and I see it's flimsy, and I sit in it anyway, I showed my faith. And I suffer the consequences.

I would describe that as trust, which is different than faith.

 

[AV1611VET]

Myself personally, I don't use the term faith, to believe in something I have a good deal of evidence to support, I tend to use the term; trust. I trust my car will start in the morning, I trust the light switch will turn the light on, etc. etc...

Try this experiment:

1. Get yourself a quarter.
2. Hold the obverse side toward you.
3. Hold it so George Washington's head is pointed upward and the date is across the bottom.
4. What are those four words just below his chin?

 

[bhsmte]

Try this experiment:

1. Get yourself a quarter.
2. Hold the obverse side toward you.
3. Hold it so George Washington's head is pointed upward and the date is across the bottom.
4. What are those four words just below his chin?

Does nothing in regards to whether I have trust in something.

 

[pgp_protector]

Try this experiment:

1. Get yourself a quarter.
2. Hold the obverse side toward you.
3. Hold it so George Washington's head is pointed upward and the date is across the bottom.
4. What are those four words just below his chin?

Only one word below his Chin. "Liberty"

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I would describe that as trust, which is different than faith.

Well, then we disagree; I consider them to be the same.

 

[bhsmte]

Well, then we disagree; I consider them to be the same.

IMO, one of the reasons non believers and believers talk through each other at times on these boards, because they use the terms; faith and trust differently.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Try this experiment:

1. Get yourself a quarter.
2. Hold the obverse side toward you.
3. Hold it so George Washington's head is pointed upward and the date is across the bottom.
4. What are those four words just below his chin?

Irrelevant, can you tell me what direction Abraham looks on a penny without looking at one? That will show you just how much you pay attention to currency.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

IMO, one of the reasons non believers and believers talk through each other at times on these boards, because they use the terms; faith and trust differently.

And sometimes "theory" vs "just a theory"!

 

[bhsmte]

And sometimes "theory" vs "just a theory"!

That is a biggie as well.

I do think the use of the term; "faith" is a big one though.

When I hear faith, I just think of; hoping for something, having your fingers crossed that it will happen or it is true, because their is a lack of evidence, to give me trust it is true, or it will happen.

 

[HitchSlap]

Try this experiment:

1. Get yourself a quarter.
2. Hold the obverse side toward you.
3. Hold it so George Washington's head is pointed upward and the date is across the bottom.
4. What are those four words just below his chin?

"God Save The Queen"?

 

[Cearbhall]

Try this experiment:

1. Get yourself a quarter.
2. Hold the obverse side toward you.
3. Hold it so George Washington's head is pointed upward and the date is across the bottom.
4. What are those four words just below his chin?

D G REG F D