My Graduate Challenge

[AV1611VET]

Creationism used to be solely on faith.

Still is.

Creation science, is deliberately misrepresented science and really has nothing to do with religion other than using it as a crutch.

How about admitting that creation science has nothing to do with creationism as well?

 

[RickG]

Still is.

I can agree somewhat, however it has been soiled with creation science.

How about admitting that creation science has nothing to do with creationism as well?

I can buy into that?

 

[AV1611VET]

I can agree somewhat, however it has been soiled with creation science.

[Today's] science soils anything sacred.

 

[RickG]

[Today's] science soils anything sacred.

Would you say the same about creation science?

 

[AV1611VET]

Would you say the same about creation science?

Yes.

Definitely yes.

Add "science" to "creation," and you have a soiled, mess-up version of the creation events.

Not to mention ... for reasons I'll never understand ... a proclivity to discuss everything BUT the creation week.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

In your opinion, what are the chances of a YEC entering a secular college or university today and graduating as a YEC after getting a degree in life sciences?

Why would he believe in a young earth in the first place?

The earth was already flourishing with life prior to man. Life that has went extinct in several eras, after which all new forms of life arose. It's that gap game back again. Then the last catastrophe struck.

In the oldest manuscripts there is a mark of a pause between the first and second verse. It may be as science tells us, that this globe existed millions of years ago; that it has been the habitation of numerous and varied races of animated beings; and that it has undergone many great destruction's and creations before it was brought into its present state: none of these views are in the least discordant with the statement of the inspired historian, that “in beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”

Verb in the past tense: finished, done, complete. You were to pause - and marvel at the splendor of it all - the grand picture of creation. Instead we choose to rush on, and pretend it's just started. Despite declaring of ancient times is the earth.

In twenty places in this chapter the verb “was” is used as the equivalent to “became”. The true meaning of the Hebrew word "hayah".

The Earth "became" desolate and waste, (tohu wa bohu - used nowhere else together in the Bible except this verse and two other places, and always when used elsewhere point to a once flourishing condition that was then laid waste - Gen 1:2; Isa. 34:11; Jer. 4:23) and darkness overspread the Earth. At this time (man) did not exist prior, nor any of the current animals found with skeletons of modern man, except in a few rare cases as in one or two classes of reptiles and fish that survived this worldwide cataclysm, and the untold number before, told of before science had ever thought of such a thing as possible.

Comet, meteor, fallen angels bound in chains of dense darkness? Who knows? It is quite accurate when interpreted properly. After unknown periods of time another act of creation occurred, this time with a notable exception, one worth bothering to describe in more detail, unlike any others that may have occurred previously. But then a new creation happened, the waters were separated from the waters (evaporation). "Let there be light...divided the light from the darkness". In Hebrew literally: " divided between the light and between darkness." Where all had previously been darkness due to the destruction, the addition of heat began separating the clouds. The events in the entire chapter are described as if one's viewpoint is from the earth.

It must be noted that the word 'ohr is not the same word used in verse 14 signifying "lights," or "luminaries," ma-'ohr; rather, it signifies "heat." the effect, which immediately followed is described in the name Day, which in Hebrew signifies "warmth."

So heat began penetrating into the depths after God acted, separating the clouds, letting light into the depths, the clouds had been so low as to contact the Earth itself. But heat allowed evaporation and the waters above were separated from the waters below and dry land appeared.

The next is just a twisted version by evolutionists. The creatures in the waters formed first, in Hebrew discourses this includes all microbial and plant life in the seas. Then reptiles and crawling things and finally birds of the air. Then mammals and man. This is where evolution theory got their idea of the order from, the Bible told them long ago. They knew the truth and so modeled their theory upon this same basis. But again, the lack of transitory species makes their interpretation of the events in the Bible suspect. If evolution is indeed correct, where are the transitory species today? Did it only occur in the past? Instead all we see is "Kind after Kind" and different "breeds" or "strains" or "species" within those Kinds. Lines which are "never" crossed. Lines which never become so different we can't recognize they are all of the same Kind. All Felidae are Felidae. All Canidae are Canidae. All Caprinae are Caprinae.

We know of no other thing, even down to the genetic level, which thanks to technological advancements, is showing that tree is nothing but individual distinct bushes, with sideways variation. I.e., different "breeds, or strains, or species, or subspecies, etc.", within that kind - or bush. Never once indicating a transitional form to another "kind". Even after billions of generations and billions of mutations, all E. coli are still E. coli, and always will be. All Felidae, no matter how many times we breed them or even mutate them in the lab, will always be Felidae.

Every past form of life sprang from nowhere, lived for a time, different breeds of that kind prospering, then went extinct due to cataclysmic actions. In its place all new life once again sprang up, to again repeat the cycle. The Bible just affirms this, when it told you of the earth becoming desolate and waste, and the darkness that became upon it, encompassing it around. Hence the dinosaurs died out. It then described the "sixth" such event, when man himself was created.

There have been 5 - count them, 5 major extinction events. Mankind and the animals with him were created "after" this 5th extinction event, the 6th creative act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event

Transitory species nothing more than an incorrect classification of the fossil record. As science is beginning to understand from actual study of their bones.


Even man's if they will ever stop mis-classifying things.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/oct/17/skull-homo-erectus-human-evolution

So all in all I see no reason why one would particularly hold to a young earth view based upon incorrect translations. Just as I don't see why one would hold to evolution based upon incorrect translations of the fossil record.

 

[HitchSlap]

In your opinion, what are the chances of a YEC entering a secular college or university today and graduating as a YEC after getting a degree in life sciences?

Zilch.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why would he believe in a young earth in the first place?

Because YEC, in my opinion, pound-for-pound against evolution, makes a better example than Gap theory, which is what you seem to be espousing here.

I think I asked you once before if you were, but I may be wrong -- it could have been someone else.

I don't remember the answer.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Because YEC, in my opinion, pound-for-pound against evolution, makes a better example than Gap theory, which is what you seem to be espousing here.

I think I asked you once before if you were, but I may be wrong -- it could have been someone else.

I don't remember the answer.

What gaps? Do you mean those periods before God created a new life on the earth - destruction? Like the last creation that will occur, or the 7th? Or do you mean gaps like in missing links because evolutionists refuse to accept that the English Mastiff mated with the Husky and produced the Chinook with no transitory intermediaries required?

 

[crjmurray]

What gaps? Do you mean those periods before God created a new life on the earth - destruction? Like the last creation that will occur, or the 7th? Or do you mean gaps like in missing links because evolutionists refuse to accept that the English Mastiff mated with the Husky and produced the Chinook with no transitory intermediaries required?

Who doesn't accept that?

 

[AV1611VET]

What gaps?

"Gap" -- singular.

Just like "heaven" is singular in Genesis 1:1.

The Gap theory proposes a Gap in time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

Just like you did, when you said this:

In the oldest manuscripts there is a mark of a pause between the first and second verse.

QV please: Gap creationism.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

"Gap" -- singular.

Just like "heaven" is singular in Genesis 1:1.

The Gap theory proposes a Gap in time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

Just like you did, when you said this:


QV please: Gap creationism.

A period of destruction followed by creation for you to use as an example? From a previous creation?

http://biblehub.com/isaiah/65-17.htm

Gap? Try 5 of them. Life springs up fully formed from the start - Cambrian explosion, goes extinct. Life again springs up fully formed, goes extinct. Again fully formed, again extinct. two more times. I say nothing the fossil record does not agree with. The works of God should of told you of His glory and pointed you to the final creation - the 7th. In which life will go extinct - and new life arise. The lion that eats straw is not the lion you are even remotely familiar with - in behavior or biology.

Why try to pretend the works of God do not declare His glory? 6 times He has created life - and yet only one receives the promise.

 

[Subduction Zone]

A period of destruction followed by creation for you to use as an example? From a previous creation?

http://biblehub.com/isaiah/65-17.htm

Gap? Try 5 of them. Life springs up fully formed from the start - Cambrian explosion, goes extinct. Life again springs up fully formed, goes extinct. Again fully formed, again extinct. two more times. I say nothing the fossil record does not agree with. The works of God should of told you of His glory and pointed you to the final creation - the 7th. In which life will go extinct - and new life arise. The lion that eats straw is not the lion you are even remotely familiar with - in behavior or biology.

Why try to pretend the works of God do not declare His glory? 6 times He has created life - and yet only one receives the promise.

Sorry, the major extinctions that have occurred in our past never killed off all life. Genesis is at best merely a book of morality stories. Even the people that understand it the best say that Genesis is not meant to be taken literally.

 

[AV1611VET]

Life springs up fully formed from the start - Cambrian explosion, goes extinct. Life again springs up fully formed, goes extinct. Again fully formed, again extinct. two more times. I say nothing the fossil record does not agree with. The works of God should of told you of His glory and pointed you to the final creation - the 7th.

Now which is it?

Life springs up, or God created it?

If life sprang up four times before God stepped in and created it in Genesis 1, then what happened when life tried to spring up a fifth time?

Did God step in, order life to stop springing up on its own, then created it Himself?

Or was life trying to spring up yet again, while God was creating life by divine fiat?

Would you be a little more clear, please?

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Now which is it?

Life springs up, or God created it?

If life sprang up four times before God stepped in and created it in Genesis 1, then what happened when life tried to spring up a fifth time?

Did God step in, order life to stop springing up on its own, then created it Himself?

Or was life trying to spring up yet again, while God was creating life by divine fiat?

Would you be a little more clear, please?

Why the strawman AV? You and I both know I believe God created all life and the whole universe. Are we gonna do what I have to put up with, with evolutionists?

Irrelevant. Life sprang up = God created it = sprang up as in fully formed (I defined that) = man does not evolve from a germ. Clear now?

You have free will don't you? There is nothing from keeping a meteorite from striking earth is there? But God also told you He did not create it in vain, but to be inhabited. He told you it was from ancient times.

But you never answered one of my questions I asked in another post. How long did Adam spend in the garden naming all the pairs of animals? How did Adam know what death was - the punishment for sin - unless he had observed it firsthand?

So what you want to interpret as literal days - was reckoned, according to you, before the sun was even created to tell the passage of time? Or was the sun already there, but was at that time appointed to serve as signs of seasons, of planting and sowing?

EDIT: Why do you limit God, when clearly His works declare His glory? Not once, but on 6 separate occasions. And soon to be the 7th

 

[AV1611VET]

Are we gonna do what I have to put up with, with evolutionists?

No.

And I apologize for any acrimony.

I feel bad when I see you (or anyone) on the John 9 chopping block, and I certainly don't want to add anything to your anxiety (or mine).

1 Corinthians 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

Once again, I apologize.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

No.

And I apologize for any acrimony.

I feel bad when I see you (or anyone) on the John 9 chopping block, and I certainly don't want to add anything to your anxiety (or mine).

1 Corinthians 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

Once again, I apologize.

I do it myself sometimes, It's not a problem. We both I think get too used to debating with those of the fallen one's camp.

EDIT: The thing about that block though, is that everyone claims it's everyone else that doesn't "see". Or would that be "does see" since the blind are the ones that see, and the seeing blind?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

What science?

Can you name one law in effect when God called the earth into existence ex nihilo on the first day?

I'm not sure I can name all the "laws" in affect right now! But the laws of physics have been the same for the past 13.7 billion years.

Did you ask him what the Flood has to do with the creation week; or were you too busy shaking your head to think of that?

YEC and Global Flood share a common distain for actual evidence about what actually happened.

More like: who cares?

Why are you searching for reasons about the Flood in a conversation about a literal six-day creation?

That's like hearing a mother talk about the night her child was born at the hospital, then asking her if that's why she failed to show up at choir practice last night.

So why the constant surfacing of attempts to insert anti-science pro YEC ideas into our schools? Somebody cares!

 

[TLK Valentine]

In your opinion, what are the chances of a YEC entering a secular college or university today and graduating as a YEC after getting a degree in life sciences?

About the same as a geocentricist getting a degree in astrophysics.

 

[AirPo]

What about those who believe in a literal six-day creation, but believe "creation science" is a contradiction in terms?

They at least have a clue!