"Embedded Age" Requires Fake Fossils

[Loudmouth]

I know nothing of the sort. One study does not convince me of anything.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3145266/

I do note, however, some interesting points in the article:

Compared to other genes, the GLO gene is therefore “predisposed” to being lost because it makes a single compound unnecessary for other pathways.

That doesn't explain why humans and other apes have the SAME mutation. If it was prone to acquiring knockout mutations after the species were created then we would expect to see different mutations in each of the species, but we don't.

 

[Zosimus]

That doesn't explain why humans and other apes have the SAME mutation. If it was prone to acquiring knockout mutations after the species were created then we would expect to see different mutations in each of the species, but we don't.

The article does not say that humans and apes have the same mutation.

But, assuming that it did, so what? You would first need to demonstrate that it is surprising that humans and apes have gulo inactivation and then make an abductive argument that common descent is the best explanation for this.

 

[Loudmouth]

The article does not say that humans and apes have the same mutation.

The ψη-globin gene as another example.
"There are very many examples of redundant pseudogenes shared between primates and humans. One is the ψη-globin gene, a hemoglobin pseudogene. It is shared among the primates only, in the exact chromosomal location, with the same mutations that destroy its function as a protein-coding gene (Goodman et al. 1989). Another example is the steroid 21-hydroxylase gene. Humans have two copies of the steroid 21-hydroxylase gene, a functional one and a untranslated pseudogene. Inactivation of the functional gene leads to congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH, a rare and serious genetic disease), giving positive evidence that the 21-hydroxylase pseudogene lacks its proper function. Both chimpanzees and humans share the same eight base-pair deletion in this pseudogene that renders it incapable of its normal function (Kawaguchi et al. 1992)."

But, assuming that it did, so what? You would first need to demonstrate that it is surprising that humans and apes have gulo inactivation and then make an abductive argument that common descent is the best explanation for this.

I already made that argument. Due to the randomness of mutation, if the gene was knocked out independently in each lineage then we should see mutations at different positions. If the gene was knocked out once in a common ancestor, then we should see the same mutation at the same position. That is the test. Guess what we see? The same mutation.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

I would assume that you have neither the time, money, or experience to check the dates for these rocks.

Correct!

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I know nothing of the sort. One study does not convince me of anything.

Hmmmph. First you tell me that if its true, I would post a link. Now I post a link and you still don't think its true. Instead, you say merely "one study does not convince me " . . . .

There are multiple studies but I won't bother. Multiple studies will not convince you either, because your mind is not making its choice based on the evidence. Your religious ideas are what form your opinion.

I do note, however, some interesting points in the article:

Compared to other genes, the GLO gene is therefore “predisposed” to being lost because it makes a single compound unnecessary for other pathways.

Explaining the frequent loss of GLO genes by saying that it only affects the production of a single compound also implies that losing the capacity to make this compound is not selected against, i.e., that such a loss does not cause any selective disadvantage. Since all species which have lost the capacity to synthesize vitamin C have a vitamin C-rich diet, this is the most common explanation brought forward to explain its frequent occurrence...

Well yeah, but you don't have any refutation for the idea that the common form of the error in primates shows us that the error occurred once among several species rather than occurring at random over and over again; moreover, it is unreasonable to suggest a designer would copy an error; therefore evolution.

I did also note some errors in the report, such as the RDA of vitamin C.

I refer you to http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/69/6/1086.full
and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14594788?dopt=Abstract

Nevertheless the link you provided said, "...although it has been suggested that a regular diet does not contain enough vitamin C, experiments with guinea pigs did not detect any beneficial effects by increasing the amount of vitamin C in the diet of these animals"

Oh, I'm with you there, adequate diet instead of getting pills of vitamin c or any other vitamins is the way to go.

One wonders why we are looking at guinea pigs when studies are available in humans.

Oh those scientists, they look at everything . . . its almost as if they were curious about reality, whatever it happens to be, instead of looking at things in order to prove some already existing point.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

My question is: Why do you trust creationists who use such dishonest practices?

I don’t! As far as dating events allegedly located in the deep past, I am an agnostic. When the Lord returns, I will ask him.

 

[AV1611VET]

As far as dating events allegedly located in the deep past, I am an agnostic.

WEAKLING!

I'm an atheist!

 

[Nic Samojluk]

I'm an atheist!

How can a Baptist be an Atheist?

 

[Loudmouth]

I don’t! As far as dating events allegedly located in the deep past, I am an agnostic. When the Lord returns, I will ask him.

Why can't we use the ratios of isotopes in rocks to determine the time since that rock solidified from lava?

 

[Loudmouth]

Correct!

Groups like AiG, ICR, and others have the time, money, and resources, yet they don't go to the same rocks to check and see if the measured ratios are correct. What does that tell you?

 

[RickG]

How can a Baptist be an Atheist?

I believe it was AV humor.

 

[AV1611VET]

How can a Baptist be an Atheist?

How can an SDA be an agnostic?

You said you were agnostic toward deep time.

I take it you meant you're not sure about it.

I replied I'm atheistic toward deep time.

Meaning I'm sure it can take a hike.

Deep time is an invention of the Devil to support cosmic evolution.

My reply to you was in jest.

 

[AV1611VET]

I believe it was AV humor.

Yup.

 

[RickG]

Yup.

Well, while you are entertaining us, how about explaining (and this should be good), how the devil is responsible for deep time.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

Why can't we use the ratios of isotopes in rocks to determine the time since that rock solidified from lava?

Good question! Read the following:

More Bad News for Radiometric Dating
“Of course, there are many problems with such dating methods, such as parent or daughter substances entering or leaving the rock, as well as daughter product being present at the beginning. …

Mechanisms that can alter daughter-to-parent ratios

The general idea is that many different minerals are formed, which differ from one another in composition, even though they come from the same magma. …


General unreliability of radiometric dating

We have seen many ways in which radiometric dates can be affected by what is going on in the magma. I think this is really the weak spot of radiometric dating. It takes a long time to get to the bottom of things, and I think we have finally hit it. …

Ref.: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating2.html

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, while you are entertaining us, how about explaining (and this should be good), how the devil is responsible for deep time.

Maybe if you didn't truncate my sentence, you wouldn't have to ask.

Here's the whole sentence again, with the answer highlighted in red:

Deep time is an invention of the Devil to support cosmic evolution.

 

[RickG]

Maybe if you didn't truncate my sentence, you wouldn't have to ask.

Here's the whole sentence again, with the answer highlighted in red:

Please expound.

 

[AV1611VET]

Please expound.

How's your day going?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Good question! Read the following:

More Bad News for Radiometric Dating
“Of course, there are many problems with such dating methods, such as parent or daughter substances entering or leaving the rock, as well as daughter product being present at the beginning. …

Mechanisms that can alter daughter-to-parent ratios

The general idea is that many different minerals are formed, which differ from one another in composition, even though they come from the same magma. …


General unreliability of radiometric dating

We have seen many ways in which radiometric dates can be affected by what is going on in the magma. I think this is really the weak spot of radiometric dating. It takes a long time to get to the bottom of things, and I think we have finally hit it. …

Ref.: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating2.html

That is hardly a valid source. And all you did was to quote the first line of a paragraph, you in no way supported your beliefs. I have not had time to read it thoroughly yet, but I am willing to bet that the writer does not understand radiometric dating either and is only pointing out potential problems that people that work with radiometric dating are well aware of.

 

[RickG]

Good question! Read the following:

More Bad News for Radiometric Dating
“Of course, there are many problems with such dating methods, such as parent or daughter substances entering or leaving the rock, as well as daughter product being present at the beginning. …

Mechanisms that can alter daughter-to-parent ratios

The general idea is that many different minerals are formed, which differ from one another in composition, even though they come from the same magma. …


General unreliability of radiometric dating

We have seen many ways in which radiometric dates can be affected by what is going on in the magma. I think this is really the weak spot of radiometric dating. It takes a long time to get to the bottom of things, and I think we have finally hit it. …

Ref.: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating2.html

Okay Nic, what you posed above is what I have been alluding to. The site linked appears to be one set up by the Univ. of North Carolina, thus giving credence to the information is provides. It is not. It is an area that provides student access. Go to the bottom of the page and click on the "return to home page". From there it says moved to: http://tasc-creationscience.org/other/plaisted/www.cs.unc.edu/_plaisted/ce/index.html. It is a bogus set up.

Nevertheless addressing the claims you listed from the site, they are misrepresentations of those dating techniques by not providing full context. Creation science in infamous for this. What they do is to list specific problems that can be encounter with radiometric dating. This of course is true. What is not provided by them is that all of those problems are stated and discussed in detail in all dating method textbooks. Also not revealed by the source is that each of those problems can be foreseen, detected, and avoided.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, if you wish to name a particular method, state problems you think may be significant to invalidate that method, I will be glad to show you why that is not true.