My Graduate Challenge

[bhsmte]

That he is a YEC.

And I think he does a good job defending it.

Whether he's right or wrong, he certainly merits the YEC badge, as well as the STRONG IN MY BELIEFS trophy.

He is an interesting dude.

The quality of his defense of YEC beliefs, is likely in the eyes of those who witness how he defends it.

 

[Loudmouth]

In your opinion, what are the chances of a YEC entering a secular college or university today and graduating as a YEC after getting a degree in life sciences?

Some have done it. Kurt Wise went into graduate school as a YEC. He studied under Stephen Jay Gould, and graduated with his YEC beliefs intact.

However, Kurt Wise doesn't pretend that the evidence is on his side. He freely admits that the evidence is on the side of evolution and an old Earth.

"Plesiadapus primate series,38 and the hominid series.39 Evidence for not just one but for all three of the species level and above types of stratomorphic intermediates expected by macroevolutionary theory is surely strong evidence for macroevolutionary theory. Creationists therefore need to accept this fact. It certainly CANNOT said that traditional creation theory expected (predicted) any of these fossil finds."
http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2009/01/honest-creation.html

 

[bhsmte]

Some have done it. Kurt Wise went into graduate school as a YEC. He studied under Stephen Jay Gould, and graduated with his YEC beliefs intact.

However, Kurt Wise doesn't pretend that the evidence is on his side. He freely admits that the evidence is on the side of evolution and an old Earth.

"Plesiadapus primate series,38 and the hominid series.39 Evidence for not just one but for all three of the species level and above types of stratomorphic intermediates expected by macroevolutionary theory is surely strong evidence for macroevolutionary theory. Creationists therefore need to accept this fact. It certainly CANNOT said that traditional creation theory expected (predicted) any of these fossil finds."
http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2009/01/honest-creation.html

Some can compartmentalize better than others.

 

[AV1611VET]

The quality of his defense of YEC beliefs, is likely in the eyes of those who witness how he defends it.

In any event, if he doesn't qualify as a YEC, I don't know who would.

Usually when I state I'm an Embedded Ager, I get asked:

"How long do you think the earth has been in existence?"

When I say 6018 years ... that's it ... I'm considered a YEC.

I'm sure Mr. Hovind would say the same thing, yet he's not a YEC?

Interesting.

 

[bhsmte]

In any event, if he doesn't qualify as a YEC, I don't know who would.

Usually when I state I'm an Embedded Ager, I get asked:

"How long do you think the earth has been in existence?"

When I say 6018 years ... that's it ... I'm considered a YEC.

I'm sure Mr. Hovind would say the same thing, yet he's not a YEC?

Interesting.

Does Hovind agree with embedded age?

 

[Subduction Zone]

That he is a YEC.

And I think he does a good job defending it.

Whether he's right or wrong, he certainly merits the YEC badge, as well as the STRONG IN MY BELIEFS trophy.

The "STRONG IN MY BELIEFS" is not a positive award when one is obviously wrong and has to openly lie to support them. Kent Hovind is a paradigm for all that is wrong with creationism. He purposefully misinterprets science, he is incapable of understanding even the simplest of ideas, and he is either an idiot or a liar. Now he does have a great spiel, I will give him that. He is the sort of person that could "sell an ice maker to Eskimos".

I do agree that he is a YEC, as you are. Of course as we all know that being a YEC entails a belief that your God is dishonest, most Christians have a huge problem with that concept, as they should have.

 

[AirPo]

That he is a YEC.

And I think he does a good job defending it.

Whether he's right or wrong, he certainly merits the YEC badge, as well as the STRONG IN MY BELIEFS trophy.

No, he did a good job selling it.

 

[AV1611VET]

He freely admits that the evidence is on the side of evolution and an old Earth.

I do as well.

More precisely, I think the evidence is weighted in favor of evolution.

And the tools used to do it are:

1. connect the dots
2. computer software
3. adjusting the decimal point of time as necessary
4. shifting the blame for mistakes elsewhere (No True Scotsman fallacy)
   
5. rejection of any method that says differently by finding something wrong with it
6. multiple attempts and retests until they arrive at the result(s) they are looking for
7. discoveries pushed through the press prematurely (the more it weighs in favor of evolution, the sooner it gets to press)

 

[AV1611VET]

The "STRONG IN MY BELIEFS" is not a positive award when one is obviously wrong ...

Whether you think the award is positive or negative, let me make this as clear as I can:

If Kent Hovind is not a YEC who is strong in his faith, I do not know who is.

And I would say the same thing for Mohammad, Joseph Smith, and Charles Russell.

(Okay -- maybe not Joseph Smith; since he may have faked the Golden Tablets story.)

... and has to openly lie to support them.

I don't share that conviction, as I think Mr. Hovind would be willing to die for what he teaches.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, he did a good job selling it.

Jesus did a good job "selling" His as well.

 

[Loudmouth]

I do as well.

More precisely, I think the evidence is weighted in favor of evolution.

And the tools used to do it are:

1. connect the dots
2. computer software
3. adjusting the decimal point of time as necessary
4. shifting the blame for mistakes elsewhere (No True Scotsman fallacy)
   
5. rejection of any method that says differently by finding something wrong with it
6. multiple attempts and retests until they arrive at the result(s) they are looking for
7. discoveries pushed through the press prematurely (the more it weighs in favor of evolution, the sooner it gets to press)

Why should the separate creation of species produce a well supported and objective phylogeny?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Whether you think the award is positive or negative, let me make this as clear as I can:

If Kent Hovind is not a YEC who is strong in his faith, I do not know who is.

And I would say the same thing for Mohammad, Joseph Smith, and Charles Russell.

(Okay -- maybe not Joseph Smith; since he may have faked the Golden Tablets story.)


I don't share that conviction, as I think Mr. Hovind would be willing to die for what he teaches.

What makes you think that people would not be willing to die for a lie? The best thing that you could say for Kent is that he is seriously mentally ill. That may be an explanation, but not an excuse, for his behavior.

 

[Loudmouth]

What makes you think that people would not be willing to die for a lie? The best thing that you could say for Kent is that he is seriously mentally ill. That may be an explanation, but not an excuse, for his behavior.

Given the way he has dealt with his court cases, I think someone could build a case that he is not mentally stable.

 

[AV1611VET]

The best thing that you could say for Kent is that he is seriously mentally ill.

I would say that is an assessment that you are probably not qualified to make.

Albeit I don't know your academic background or vocation, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are neither a psychiatrist nor a psychologist.

And even if you were, I'm going to assume you haven't tested Mr. Hovind.

I know of a well-known evangelist who has cerebral palsey who was committed to the psychiatric ward of a hospital by someone who thinks as you do ... and is a psychiatrist ... until his wife got a Christian psychiatrist to override the secular psychiatrist's orders.

That's why people who think like that make it hard for us to even go to the ER room with a medical emergency.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I would say that is an assessment that you are probably not qualified to make.

Albeit I don't know your academic background or vocation, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are neither a psychiatrist nor a psychologist.

And even if you were, I'm going to assume you haven't tested Mr. Hovind.

I know of a well-known evangelist who has cerebral palsey who was committed to the psychiatric ward of a hospital by someone who thinks as you do ... and is a psychiatrist ... until his wife got a Christian psychiatrist to override the secular psychiatrist's orders.

That's why people who think like that make it hard for us to even go to the ER room with a medical emergency.

I am not academically qualified, but I am qualified by my exposure to crazies, and he is definitely in that category.

One does not need to test a person claiming to be Napoleon to see if he is crazy or not.

 

[bhsmte]

I would say that is an assessment that you are probably not qualified to make.

Albeit I don't know your academic background or vocation, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are neither a psychiatrist nor a psychologist.

And even if you were, I'm going to assume you haven't tested Mr. Hovind.

I know of a well-known evangelist who has cerebral palsey who was committed to the psychiatric ward of a hospital by someone who thinks as you do ... and is a psychiatrist ... until his wife got a Christian psychiatrist to override the secular psychiatrist's orders.

That's why people who think like that make it hard for us to even go to the ER room with a medical emergency.

A trained observer could make a good educated guess on Hovind, based on his presentations and all the information available on him. People give you strong clues as to how they tick, based on their behavior.

At the very least, Hovind can compartmentalize with the best of them and he clearly has some powerful defense mechanisms, to ward off and deny the evidence he needs to deny.

I don't know whether he really believes what he preaches, or whether his motivation is driven from being considered some kind of savior, from telling a select group of people what they want to hear and this makes him feel important.

 

[Loudmouth]

I would say that is an assessment that you are probably not qualified to make.

Hovind has been claiming that he was never convicted of tax fraud. He is either lying, or he is not mentally stable. Take your pick.

From the crazy things he has said in court and to people while in prison, I lean towards the crazy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Given the way he has dealt with his court cases, I think someone could build a case that he is not mentally stable.

Exactly. Continuing to go after the IRS after losing a massive court case, he was found guilty on all of the charges brought up against him, is not the act of a sane man. He may have gotten off the second time around. He could still be charged on his in prison charges. There are still three possible felonies that could keep him in prison for a long time to come.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

In any event, if he doesn't qualify as a YEC, I don't know who would.

Usually when I state I'm an Embedded Ager, I get asked:

"How long do you think the earth has been in existence?"

When I say 6018 years ... that's it ... I'm considered a YEC.

I'm sure Mr. Hovind would say the same thing, yet he's not a YEC?

Interesting.

Perhaps that poster was questioning Mr. Hovind's sincerity.

 

[AV1611VET]

Perhaps that poster was questioning Mr. Hovind's sincerity.

Whether he is sincere or not (and I think he is, but that's not the point) ...

Whether he is sincere or not, he's one doosey of a defender of his YEC beliefs.

I'd say he's the poster child for:

1. YECism
2. defender of his faith