DUGGERS and 3 questions

[Red Fox]

I'm failing to see why it's trotted out like an accomplishment to have nineteen children and only one known incestuous child molester in the bunch.

QFT. They are an obvious failure at parenthood and an obvious failure in their own professed beliefs, and that's not to mention, being lying hypocrites.

 

[Smidlee]

The blood of Christ is not whitewash. Christ was rather famously against spiritual whitewashing. If anything, one's wrongs and shortcomings should become all the more apparent--all the more transparent. The blood of Christ should make guileless. open books of us to the world and ourselves, with our exteriors depicting as truly as possible our interiors.

Be cautious of those who appear as white as snow.

I'm not in the position to judge who belongs to God or not. So if someone repents and ask forgiveness I'm commandment to forgive them. Jesus even warns us let the tares and wheat grow together unless you uproot the wheat. He will separate the tares and wheat after the harvest.

QFT. They are an obvious failure at parenthood and an obvious failure in their own professed beliefs, and that's not to mention, being lying hypocrites.

Be careful. Peter lied when he told Jesus he would never deny him but he did as Jesus said he would. Jesus never called Peter a hypocrite.

 

[Red Fox]

Be careful. Peter lied when he told Jesus he would never deny him but he did as Jesus said he would. Jesus never called Peter a hypocrite.

As far as I'm aware, Peter was never a repeated child molester and a sexual predator of young girls, before or after he was a disciple of Jesus, so, your point is rather moot.

 

[Smidlee]

As far as I'm aware, Peter was never a repeated child molester and a sexual predator of young girls, before or after he was a disciple of Jesus, so, your point is rather moot.

Ok. King David then.

 

[katherine2001]

I wonder if the victims wants this broadcast all over the news. It seems everyone wants to speak for the victims. Who cares about victims when this make good news story.

If God is in control, He evidently wanted it brought into the light. Maybe the girls need to know that what happened to them was not their fault. ATI teaches that if something like that happens, it is the girls fault, not the fault of the male (in this case their brother) who molested them. Maybe God wants them to learn that this teaching is not correct and that they are not at fault. They probably need to know that so that they can heal.

 

[Red Fox]

Ok. King David then.

Yes, King David was a lying hypocrite and a womanizer, who not only stole a man's wife, but had the man killed. I'm not all that impressed with your biblical examples.

 

[Red Fox]

If God is in control, He evidently wanted it brought into the light. Maybe the girls need to know that what happened to them was not their fault. ATI teaches that if something like that happens, it is the girls fault, not the fault of the male (in this case their brother) who molested them. Maybe God wants them to learn that this teaching is not correct and that they are not at fault. They probably need to know that so that they can heal.

It's so deplorable to blame a girl for being molested or blame a woman for being sexually assaulted, and I don't care how it's spun to fit their religious beliefs.

 

[Glass*Soul]

I'm not in the position to judge who belongs to God or not. So if someone repents and ask forgiveness I'm commandment to forgive them. Jesus even warns us let the tares and wheat grow together unless you uproot the wheat. He will separate the tares and wheat after the harvest.

I am in agreement with what you've said here.

I'm a little puzzled as to why you answered my post with this observation though. Maybe I'm missing some connection. I don't think anything I said amounted to judging as to who belongs to God and who doesn't (speaking metaphorically in my case of course).

I was actually assuming Josh has corrected his behavior. What I was trying to address was that repentance is its own subject and not an easy one. What I would suggest to Josh at this point in his life, in the incredibly unlikely event I would be in a position to make a suggestion, is that he earn his living in some other way than working with the public for a season, perhaps in building houses as he did as a teenager. Even St. Paul and Christ himself spent a period of time in manual labor, so that suggestion isn't meant to shame him.

Saying you're sorry, really meaning it, and stopping your wrong-doing is not all there is to repentance, and part of what there is to it is learning to be humble and transparent. Being caught out in a scandal was a good indication that he was in the wrong place in his career and needed to do a turn-around, not because we are unforgiving but because his position was shown by this not to be a good fit.

Repentance is like a lifetime spiral. You keep coming back around to it. Why and how you were sorry at one point is not always exactly why and how you will be sorry forever. What you understood as a teenager is not what you understand as a young adult or what you will understand in middle ago or as an elder. We keep framing and re-framing the events of our lives, not because we are unforgiven or wallowing in guilt but because our perspective expands.

Ok. King David then.

Good example.

Though he repented, his life was never quite the same after his affair with Bathsheba. There were layers to his sorrow that surfaced over time as more and more consequences to his actions revealed themselves.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Artemis97 said: ↑

I'm failing to see why it's trotted out like an accomplishment to have nineteen children and only one known incestuous child molester in the bunch.



By Red Fox

QFT. They are an obvious failure at parenthood and an obvious failure in their own professed beliefs, and that's not to mention, being lying hypocrites.


The parenthood of the Duggars have as an accomplishment in that they had something to do with their eleven teens and adult children that have never have committed even a minor crime.

I agree that Mr. Dugger is a hypocrite in the issue as I have stated but that does not eliminate the fact that he has raised ELEVEN good citizens as of this date.

If your family was investigated and in the public eye for years could you say that there has been no minor crime committed by so many member of your family?

Are you failing to give credit where credit is due because you can point to some member of the Duggar family being a hypocrite?

 

[seashale76]

Most people raise non-criminals. Color me unimpressed.

 

[sdmsanjose]

By Red Fox

It's so deplorable to blame a girl for being molested or blame a woman for being sexually assaulted, and I don't care how it's spun to fit their religious beliefs.

Did the Duggers blame the little girls for the molestation? That would be a HUGE issue against the Duggers. Please post a credible reference that proves that the Duggers blame the little girls for being molested.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Most people raise non-criminals. Color me unimpressed.

And most people that raise non-criminals should be commended!

 

[Smidlee]

I am in agreement with what you've said here.

I'm a little puzzled as to why your answered my post with this observation though. Maybe I'm missing some connection. I don't think anything I said amounted to judging as to who belongs to God and who doesn't (speaking metaphorically in my case of course).

I was actually assuming Josh has corrected his behavior. What I was trying to address was that repentance is its own subject and not an easy one. What I would suggest to Josh at this point in his life, in the incredibly unlikely event I would be in a position to make a suggestion, is that he earn his living in some other way than working with the public for a season, perhaps in building houses as he did as a teenager. Even St. Paul and Christ himself spent a period of time in manual labor, so that suggestion isn't meant to shame him.

Saying you're sorry, really meaning it, and stopping your wrong-doing is not all there is to repentance, and part of what there is to it is learning to be humble and transparent. Being caught out in a scandal was a good indication that he was in the wrong place in his career and needed to do a turn-around, not because we are unforgiving but because his position was shown by this not to be a good fit.

Repentance is like a lifetime spiral. You keep coming back around to it. Why and how you were sorry at one point is not always exactly why and how you will be sorry forever. What you understood as a teenager is not what you understand as a young adult or what you will understand in middle ago or as an elder. We keep framing and re-framing the events of our lives, not because we are unforgiven or wallowing in guilt but because our perspective expands.

I never said there wasn't consequences for you sin. When a drunk get saved he still has to live with the damage causes of his wild life. I mention he is still accountable to his victims. I agree with you for example if I cheated on my wife that part of the repentance is being accountable to my wife who I hurt. I do all I can to rebuild that thrust I have broken.
In this case I'm an outsider so there is no reason at all for me to bring up a sin that's been place under the blood.

Good example.

Though he repented, his life was never quite the same after his affair with Bathsheba. There were layers to his sorrow that surfaced over time as more and more consequences to his actions revealed themselves.

King David wasn't a hypocrite just because he ended up judging his own self. Nathen who loved King David didn't say " Thou are a hypocrite" but he said "Thou are the man...." David judge the man who stole the lamb and sentence him to death which was beyond what the law required. David was eating up with guilt. No doubt David's enemies called him a hypocrite while he friend who knew him well didn't. After David repented I serious doubt Nathen ever brought up David sin again.

 

[Smidlee]

Did the Duggers blame the little girls for the molestation? That would be a HUGE issue against the Duggers. Please post a credible reference that proves that the Duggers blame the little girls for being molested.

What gets me is people criticized them as being in a cult when get look around and see the nonsense the world (public schools) is trying to teach our children. The public schools is grounded in materialism and humanism.

 

[Supreme]

I never said there wasn't consequences for you sin. When a drunk get saved he still has to live with the damage causes of his wild life. I mention he is still accountable to his victims. I agree with you for example if I cheated on my wife that part of the repentance is being accountable to my wife who I hurt. I do all I can to rebuild that thrust I have broken.
In this case I'm an outsider so there is no reason at all for me to bring up a sin that's been place under the blood.


King David wasn't a hypocrite just because he ended up judging his own self. Nathen who loved King David didn't say " Thou are a hypocrite" but he said "Thou are the man...." David judge the man who stole the lamb and sentence him to death which was beyond what the law required. David was eating up with guilt. No doubt David's enemies called him a hypocrite while he friend who knew him well didn't. After David repented I serious doubt Nathen ever brought up David sin again.

King David was a fascinating, but fundamentally flawed, man.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

What gets me is people criticized them as being in a cult when get look around and see the nonsense the world (public schools) is trying to teach our children. The public schools is grounded in materialism and humanism.

That's bad?

 

[HannahT]

Did the Duggers blame the little girls for the molestation? That would be a HUGE issue against the Duggers. Please post a credible reference that proves that the Duggers blame the little girls for being molested.

People are going by the movements own pamphlets, and teachings on the subject. Since this family is very committed to the movement it would make sense that they follow them.

Do we have any credible references that they went against the teachings they are so committed to in this case?

Since they tend to - and talk about - some of the other rather superstitious teachings that aren't based in scripture it makes me very leery of what approach they did take. Sadly, that could cause great harm to those children - and Josh as well.

It's not like they hid that they followed this movement, and endorsed this leader. They did openly.

Josh would have caught it down the line anyway, because they were not open about the past. The past tends to catch up to you. Due to his past he should have never been placed in the position of employment that he was given, and I have wonder if they knew...which they should been informed of. You don't place a person that has this type of past on the front lines preaching to others about treatment of family - or family life - especially when you don't fully expose your own failings in this area.

Kid or not - he was old enough to know better. I wouldn't be surprised if he himself wasn't messed with at some point, and or the strange viewpoint towards sexuality didn't play a part in his actions. Yet, that doesn't excuse the veil of secrets.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

 

[HannahT]

What gets me is people criticized them as being in a cult when get look around and see the nonsense the world (public schools) is trying to teach our children. The public schools is grounded in materialism and humanism.

Its not like scripture doesn't talk about that, and so it really shouldn't 'get you'. 1 John 2:15-17

What tends to 'get me' is that many within the Christian viewpoint knew about the crazy teachings of the movement that the Duggar's follow, and did NOT follow the teachings of the bible and call them out on it. Ezekiel 3:17-18 ( you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood.)

Maybe we should worry about our own logs, and take the word of God seriously...and realize the world with be the world. God says so - so it must be true!

 

[seashale76]

What gets me is people criticized them as being in a cult when get look around and see the nonsense the world (public schools) is trying to teach our children. The public schools is grounded in materialism and humanism.

Having taught in a public school for too long, I disagree. Reading, writing, math, science, social studies, foreign languages, and related arts are just so evil. The horror. Those that usually trot out their anti-public schools argument have little to no exposure as to what is actually going on in public schools.