How many dozens of Christians did creationism drive away this past hour?

[Oncedeceived]

I was told by my parents to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. I was born a scientist as I tested put much everything. I ended up breaking most of my toys trying to figure out how they work. Mom told me not to touch a plug-in and I learn why and never forgot it. I remember testing the "Easter Bunny" theory by getting up early in the morning before my parents and seeing nothing in the living room. After they got up they told me to get up and see what the Easter Bunny bought me. I keep it to myself for a couple of years that I already knew SC didn't exist. I wasn't raised in church and there were only occasional mentioning of God in rare moments. I drove my mother crazy with my questions until finally she would reply " cause God made it that way." I thought OK. I already came to the conclusion there was a creator but didn't know anything about Him.

I got a radio for my 10th birthday and over time came across to BBN. I only learn enough to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior as I kneel down under a tree in the back yard. There were two things I had no doubt: God and I was a sinner. I didn't know exactly what happen to me: it was as something shocked me like that time I was shocked playing with that plug-in. I never forgot it.

I told my sisters I became a Christian when they began to tell how to be religious .. you got to keep the ten commandments..etc. I didn't know what the ten commandments were and they wasn't sure themselves. I wanted to keep the commandments but I know myself well enough to know I couldn't keep them for my whole life no matter what they were so I told God He could have his salvation back ... maybe when I'm on my death bed I turn to Christ as I'd thought I had to put my trust in Christ. But something changed that I couldn't get away from it. Of course now I know God didn't forsake me and guided me along the way.

As I became a teenager I tried to get my parents to take me to church even though I've never been I had a hunger to go there. They always tell me "you don't have to go to church to be a Christian." I finally went to church when I got my driver licenses and I was so disappointed to learn the pastor of that church know the scripture less than I did. (Now that I'm wiser I have doubts he believed in God). I didn't go to church for a few more years until I got married and meet my wife's brother-in-law who was a Church of God pastor. He tried to convinced me that you can lose your salvation. He could quote scripture left and right but if there is one thing I learn it's God wasn't an Indian-giver. He told me Indian-giver not in scripture and finally give up told me you believe like those Baptist. (to him that wasn't a good thing) I didn't what anyone believed but I decided to go to a Baptist church and found out he's right, I do agree more with the Baptist. ( My Baptist preacher was loaded with Bible knowledge) I'm still going to that same Baptist church today because a Church of God pastor.

I am sure your parents didn't believe that Santa Claus nor the Easter Bunny really existed either.

 

[Davian]

Why would you think I would not be able to understand imagination compared to reality?

Your repeated claims that things, such as gods, are real, when you have yet to demonstrate that they exist outside of your imagination. What else might I conclude from that?

 

[justlookinla]

Libby Anne believed in God and reported that she had a relationship with God. That all fell apart because of the creationism she was taught as a child, and how it was dismantled when it came face to face with reality.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/04/29/why-i-am-an-atheist-libby-anne/

How can one unknow someone?

 

[dad]

I just happen to disagree. I totally understand your position and I don't claim I am right over you. I just don't see it in the same way as you do.[/QUOTE]

Right. We gave our positions. No one is accusing the other one of being unsaved or something. You are buying the beer in heaven when you find out the truth though

 

[Oncedeceived]

I just happen to disagree. I totally understand your position and I don't claim I am right over you. I just don't see it in the same way as you do.

Right. We gave our positions. No one is accusing the other one of being unsaved or something. You are buying the beer in heaven when you find out the truth though[/QUOTE]


You got it! Come to my mansion anytime.

 

[Oncedeceived]

How can one unknow someone?

Right? I mean I don't think that if God had not revealed Himself to me that I would have read a Bible and smacked my forehead and said, "man this all makes perfect sense, why has it taken me this long to read it!".

 

[justlookinla]

Right? I mean I don't think that if God had not revealed Himself to me that I would have read a Bible and smacked my forehead and said, "man this all makes perfect sense, why has it taken me this long to read it!".

My thing is that someone claims to have known God, had a relationship with Him, but chose to not serve Him because they were confused about creationism. I just don't see that happening.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Your repeated claims that things, such as gods, are real, when you have yet to demonstrate that they exist outside of your imagination. What else might I conclude from that?

How would one demonstrate a non-physical reality? Science knows that there is dark matter but its nature is unable to be demonstrated in the physical world but it exist and it is a part of the physical world whereas God is outside the natural world.

 

[Oncedeceived]

My thing is that someone claims to have known God, had a relationship with Him, but chose to not serve Him because they were confused about creationism. I just don't see that happening.

I agree, if you know God for instance and interacted with Him (relationship) but couldn't get around Creationism how does that make you think you were wrong about knowing God and having a relationship with Him. Nonsense.

 

[Davian]

Exactly...true belief. If Santa really was real and you knew he existed you would have known and not just believed. That is the point.

I do not see your point. You seem to be simply playing with semantics, trying to show that the difference between "believing that you know" and "believing" has some bearing on reality. You have not shown that.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I do not see your point. You seem to be simply playing with semantics, trying to show that the difference between "believing that you know" and "believing" has some bearing on reality. You have not shown that.

When we believe something we have a "belief" that something is true or false. When we know something, we have evidence in our lives that has convinced us and we have moved from just a belief to a knowledge of something.

 

[Davian]

How would one demonstrate a non-physical reality?

You are the one that claims to know about it, that burden is on you.

Science knows that there is dark matter but its nature is unable to be demonstrated in the physical world but it exist and it is a part of the physical world

You are wrong. The nature of what astrophysicists label dark energy is independently observable and measurable.

whereas God is outside the natural world.

Tell me how is that any different from "imaginary".

 

[Davian]

When we believe something we have a "belief" that something is true or false. When we know something, we have evidence in our lives that has convinced us and we have moved from just a belief to a knowledge of something.

Semantic games. That you have convinced yourself of something to a greater degree will not make it real. How is knowledge of something that you cannot show exists any different from "belief?

 

[Oncedeceived]

You are the one that claims to know about it, that burden is on you.

You are asking for something that is illogical. You are asking for me to demonstrate a being that is non-physical in our Physical realm.

You are wrong. The nature of what astrophysicists label dark energy is independently observable and measurable.

It is not observable, its existence is only known by how it affects other elements.

Tell me how is that any different from "imaginary".

Do you know the difference between imaginary and reality?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Semantic games. That you have convinced yourself of something to a greater degree will not make it real. How is knowledge of something that you cannot show exists any different from "belief?

Leaving God out of the equation, how do you differentiate between things you believe and things you know?

 

[Smidlee]

I am sure your parents didn't believe that Santa Claus nor the Easter Bunny really existed either.

No it was innocent back then but they did resist a little when I choose not to tell my children of SC. They thought I judged them as a bad parent for doing it but I let them know that times has changed. Just the fact that some tries to relate God with SC is a good reason not to. There is also the fact a lot of adults thinks the government is SC. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The older generation understood this.

 

[Smidlee]

How would one demonstrate a non-physical reality? Science knows that there is dark matter but its nature is unable to be demonstrated in the physical world but it exist and it is a part of the physical world whereas God is outside the natural world.

Art is the product of man imagination yet I doubt anyone would try to claim art doesn't exist or not real. Atheist badly tries to separate our thoughts from reality as if our thoughts are less real. Now our brain is wired to see the universe in a certain way... 3-D. We can create optical illusion especially in 2D to show our minds interpret things a certain way. What more real our thoughts or the universe? How can we even know the universe is real without any thoughts? We know only what we know.

Hebrews 11:3 states "through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are see were not made of things which do appear."

Faith and understanding goes hand to hand. You can't have one without the other.

 

[Smidlee]

dp ( I really hate this PC lagging.)

 

[AV1611VET]

As many of us here know, Barna research* has shown that the denial of scientific data about reality is one of main reasons ex-Christians give for why they left Christianity. A major (perhaps biggest) source of this reality denial in churches is creationism.

Now we have data as to how many people are leaving Christianity in the US.

It turns out to be over 1% , or over 3 million people each year. That's nearly 10,000 each day, or 366 per hour - about a person every 10 seconds. In the time it took you to read this far, another 5 people left their church, never to return. Christians lose ground, 'nones' soar in new portrait of US religion - Religion News Service

Creationism is, of course, only part of why they leave. But how big a part, on average? If it's only 10%, then that's still about 40 people a day leaving due to creationism. If creationism makes up most of the reason, then that could be as high as hundreds of people a day.

What do you think? You can vote for your estimate.

In Christ-

Papias

*Barna data says that around 25% cite this as a reason they left - among teens. https://www.barna.org/teens-next-gen-articles/528-six-reasons-young-christians-leave-church

 

[AV1611VET]

or 366 per hour -

30.5