How many dozens of Christians did creationism drive away this past hour?

[Oncedeceived]

It goes deeper than that. We have creationists who make absolutely ridiculous claims about science. They are so wrong that it seriously calls their judgement into question. Those same people are claiming that they are in a relationship with God. If they can be so obviously wrong about scientific facts that could be checked by a simple Google search, why would you ever think they could be right about something that is almost impossible to check?

For some, once they start to question whether their supposed relationship with God is real or not, it is over. Creationism causes you to see why faith should not be trusted.

Your focus seems to be twofold here, on one hand you are talking about those who make claims incorrectly but claim they have a relationship with God and then on the other those who question creationism. Not sure where you are coming from here.

I have found that people can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to say.

That is how you view it.

 

[Loudmouth]

Your focus seems to be twofold here, on one hand you are talking about those who make claims incorrectly but claim they have a relationship with God and then on the other those who question creationism. Not sure where you are coming from here.

Where I am going is that someone loses credibility when they push creationism. If they can be so wrong about science, it tends to indicate that they are wrong about other things as well. It is also sign of how willing they are to be fooled into believing something that simply isn't true.

That is how you view it.

How many years have we been told that the second coming is right around the corner?

 

[Merlin]

Once wrote:

P. S. Merlin- Yes, of course - that's what the OP said as well. Since we agree it is only one of many reasons, how big a proportion would you say? 25%?

What does it matter?
Hopefully we are about the truth of the Bible, not a numbers game.
Jesus said His words would be confusing except for those who are truly believers.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I doubt Creationism plays much of a role at all. the evidence would suggest that the largest losses are to denominations that fully accept evolutionary theory. Doubtful that anyone left those churches due to Creationism. Someone earlier pointed out that there are many reasons people leave a religious denomination most of those are just simply not inspired by their former religious leaders or they disagree with new doctrine or new liturgical settings. People leave for frivolous or serious reasons but Creationism is not anywhere near the top of the list. In the last hour I would be surprised if anyone in particular was persuaded to leave their religious faith behind simply because of Creationism. they might change denominations for that or become unaffiliated with a denomination but dumping faith for unbelief is usually based upon something more basic to the human psyche than how and when the universe came into existence.

 

[crjmurray]

Where I am going is that someone loses credibility when they push creationism. If they can be so wrong about science, it tends to indicate that they are wrong about other things as well. It is also sign of how willing they are to be fooled into believing something that simply isn't true.



How many years have we been told that the second coming is right around the corner?

Also been used to justify slavery, segregation, banning interracial marriage, homophobia, genocide.....

Edit: Oh! Sexism and witch hunts.

 

[Merlin]

Excellent OP/Thread

I would imagine that most posters (YEC) we encounter here have little to no background in any physical science and are more than willing to follow and spread the claims put out by Creationist organizations for no other reason that hearing what they want to hear.

If I had no background and/or experience in science I too would probably be caught up in this conformation bias. Fortunately though (Thank God)I do have a considerable academic background and professional experience in the Earth Sciences and Chemistry. Thus it is easy for me to "fact check" information put out by those creationist organizations. What I find is appalling. That is, a lot of "confirmation bias" by "non-professionals", in the area(s) they write about. Additionally, those who actually have "associated" credentials and experience in the areas they write about, I see "Intellectual Dishonesty". The difference between the two is that the latter actually know that their claims are far from scholarly work. That is they only use information that seems to support their position, while ignoring everything that does not.

No wonder Christians are leaving the faith, if Christians have to deliberately misrepresent and lie to support their faith, what credibility does that faith have?

if you choose to say the Bible is wrong here, then how do you choose what to believe?
do you just accept the parts that are convenient for you?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Where I am going is that someone loses credibility when they push creationism. If they can be so wrong about science, it tends to indicate that they are wrong about other things as well. It is also sign of how willing they are to be fooled into believing something that simply isn't true.

But that is not what the OP is about. It is not about how you view the person who has been supposedly told falsehoods about Creation; it is about those who leave the Church due to these supposed falsehoods.

How many years have we been told that the second coming is right around the corner?

The church has always been instructed that it could happen at any time. However, for it to be the generation of His return and for the actual event there had to be certain things in line for it to occur. There had to be technology that we have today for some of the things spoken about, Israel had to be a nation once again. IN fact, Israel being a nation is the first thing the generation of the end times was to look for.

 

[sfs]

if you choose to say the Bible is wrong here, then how do you choose what to believe?
do you just accept the parts that are convenient for you?

Most Christians who accept evolution would say not that the Bible is wrong, but that it's not teaching biology or geology, and that you're reading it wrong if you think it is.

I do find your question, which I've seen many times before, a little odd though. You seem to be saying that instead of deciding which parts of the Bible are right, you just decide that all parts of the Bible are right. But that's also you deciding which parts are right: you just choose "all parts", rather than "some of the parts", but it's still you making the choice. So how did you choose what parts to believe?

 

[bhsmte]

Once - doesn't someone have to know God exists to have a relationship with Him?

I would think believing a God exists would be a good start. At least IMO.

 

[bhsmte]

The ultimate snake oil salesman trick. When the medicine doesn't work, blame the patient.

You know what juvy has said before; there is no bad teacher, only bad students.

 

[bhsmte]

if you choose to say the Bible is wrong here, then how do you choose what to believe?
do you just accept the parts that are convenient for you?

I guess believers could start with the knowledge that; the bible was written by fallible men.

 

[Subduction Zone]

if you choose to say the Bible is wrong here, then how do you choose what to believe?
do you just accept the parts that are convenient for you?

Every Christian that I know tends to pick and choose various parts of the Bible to believe. Do you follow the Old Testament laws? Jesus said that they are still in effect.

 

[Merlin]

Most Christians who accept evolution would say not that the Bible is wrong, but that it's not teaching biology or geology, and that you're reading it wrong if you think it is.

I do find your question, which I've seen many times before, a little odd though. You seem to be saying that instead of deciding which parts of the Bible are right, you just decide that all parts of the Bible are right. But that's also you deciding which parts are right: you just choose "all parts", rather than "some of the parts", but it's still you making the choice. So how did you choose what parts to believe?

Christianity is about what Jesus did to remove sin.
Creationism talks about where the sin came from.
So what point is there for Jesus if there is no sin?
What point is there for Christianity if the bible is wrong and there is no sin?

 

[Merlin]

Every Christian that I know tends to pick and choose various parts of the Bible to believe. Do you follow the Old Testament laws? Jesus said that they are still in effect.

Well, according to the book of Acts, there is direction as to what non-hebrews ( gentiles) are to follow
Laws to follow Acts 15:

In the early church, discussion of which laws to follow came up

Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and
said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question.
7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some
time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message
of the gospel and believe.
8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them,
just as he did to us.
9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that
neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
11 No!
We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

The consensus was:

Acts 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond
the following requirements:
Acts 15:29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of
strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Christianity is about what Jesus did to remove sin.
Creationism talks about where the sin came from.
So what point is there for Jesus if there is no sin?
What point is there for Christianity if the bible is wrong and there is no sin?

But creationism is demonstrably wrong. Most believers can see that it is a morality tale and does not describe actual events. Perhaps you should talk to some of the many Christians that accept science. Here is a good place to start:

BioLogos: Science and faith in harmony

 

[RickG]

if you choose to say the Bible is wrong here, then how do you choose what to believe?
do you just accept the parts that are convenient for you?

I don't worship the bible, I worship God.

 

[Loudmouth]

if you choose to say the Bible is wrong here, then how do you choose what to believe?
do you just accept the parts that are convenient for you?

Isn't that what you do?

"First, . . . to want to affirm that in reality the sun is at the center of the world and only turns on itself without moving from east to west, and the earth . . . revolves with great speed about the sun . . . is a very dangerous thing, likely not only to irritate all scholastic philosophers and theologians, but also to harm the Holy Faith by rendering Holy Scripture false."--Cardinal Bellarmine, 1615

I would assume that you are not a Geocentrist. IMHO, the prudent policy would be to assume that the error was made by the reader.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, according to the book of Acts, there is direction as to what non-hebrews ( gentiles) are to follow
Laws to follow Acts 15:

In the early church, discussion of which laws to follow came up

Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and
said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question.
7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some
time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message
of the gospel and believe.
8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them,
just as he did to us.
9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that
neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
11 No!
We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

The consensus was:

Acts 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond
the following requirements:
Acts 15:29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of
strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.

In other words they were given an "out" from circumcision. It seems that at the very least the dietary laws still held.

 

[Loudmouth]

Christianity is about what Jesus did to remove sin.
Creationism talks about where the sin came from.
So what point is there for Jesus if there is no sin?
What point is there for Christianity if the bible is wrong and there is no sin?

Jesus taught in parables. If there was not a real Prodigal Son, does that mean Jesus' teachings are false?

 

[Loudmouth]

But that is not what the OP is about. It is not about how you view the person who has been supposedly told falsehoods about Creation; it is about those who leave the Church due to these supposed falsehoods.

What I am trying to say is that creationism changes the way that people look at their fellow christians which can push them away from christianity.

The church has always been instructed that it could happen at any time. However, for it to be the generation of His return and for the actual event there had to be certain things in line for it to occur. There had to be technology that we have today for some of the things spoken about, Israel had to be a nation once again. IN fact, Israel being a nation is the first thing the generation of the end times was to look for.

And yet we have heard that Jesus is coming back at any second for the last 2,000 years.

Predictions and claims for the Second Coming of Christ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia