• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Schools that teach creationism in the science class.

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I would absolutely agree that someone who goes against an established system must be prepared for what comes next.

Sure.

The student who has a genuine interest in learning biology in the conservative Christian school, should recognize that school has established a system of teaching biblical creationism and they would need to get their knowledge elsewhere and I am sure some do.

The student that has been taught biblical creationism since youth attending public school, would need to recognize, biology class is going to teach biology and not biblical creationism and they would need to rely on other means, to better understand biblical creationism.
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
Upvote 0

Resha Caner

Expert Fool
Sep 16, 2010
9,171
1,398
✟163,100.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
This is the text from the post your link sent me to.

"As opposed to all of the places on earth where there was no worldwide flood... (your statement is kind of contradictory) "--Strathos

Hmm. It takes me to post #28. That's weird.
 
Upvote 0

TLK Valentine

I've already read the books you want burned.
Apr 15, 2012
64,493
30,322
Behind the 8-ball, but ahead of the curve.
✟541,572.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
In your opinion, are sfs, pgp_protector, KerrMetric, Lucaspa, and mark kennedy qualified to teach science in US public schools?

(Please answer this.)

Opinion has nothing to do with it. If they hold the requisite certification for their particular state, they would be qualified.
 
Upvote 0

Ada Lovelace

Grateful to scientists and all health care workers
Site Supporter
Jun 20, 2014
5,316
9,295
California
✟1,024,756.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Despite statements to the contrary, creationism is still taught in a minority of publicly-funded science classrooms, though the methods used are sorta insidious.

In a sane world, the ringing denunciation of intelligent design and creationist "science" delivered by a federal judge in 2005 would have eradicated these concepts from the schoolroom.

District Judge John E. Jones III of Harrisburg, Pa., ruled then that "intelligent design" is not science, "cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents," and therefore is unconstitutional as a subject to be taught in a public school.

Yet the creationists keep at it. A recent report, written for Slate.com by the indefatigable and implausibly youthful Zack Kopplin, involves a network of charter schools with an enrollment of 17,000 students in Texas, Arkansas, and Indiana and an incredible haul of $82.6 million a year in state, local and federal funds.

As Kopplin reports, the biology workbook assigned to students in the schools operated by Responsive Education Solutions is shot through with creationist propaganda. Among its assertions: "Evolution — which is, after all, an unproved theory — has been treated as fact. It has reached the level of dogma, widely accepted, but unproven and changing school of thought that is treated as though it were fact."

Its section on "The Origin of Life" asserts: "There are only two ways that life could have begun: "1 - Spontaneous generation - random chemical processes formed the first cell. 2 - Supernatural intervention created the first cell."

As for the first living cell, the text blithers on, scientists "can only hypothesize what it might have been like." Thus it craftily attempts to undermine the scientific method. On the other hand, it says, "for many, supernatural creation (either by God or some other supernatural power) of the first cell is a more plausible explanation."

One way to react to a school system that places "supernatural intervention" on the same scientific plane as a natural process, however dopily described, is with relief that these 17,000 children won't be equipped to compete in the real world with our kids. Life in modern America is hard enough, so there's something Darwinian indeed about saddling all those kids with the burden of a 16th-century education.

Another way is to express dismay that taxpayer funds, including money paid by federal taxpayers, is going to this sort of effort.

In a reply to the Slate article posted in the Arkansas Times, Responsive Education Chief Executive Chuck Cook maintained that "the curriculum was simply providing examples of competing theories on the origin of life." He states, "Our science curriculum does examine all sides of the scientific evidence relating to the theory of evolution — both for and against — just as we are required to do by the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills for Biology."

Jones took the measure of this "we're only teaching both sides" attack on evolution. In the case before him, a disclaimer read to school pupils in Dover, Pa., at the outset of their study of evolution, "while encouraging students to keep an open mind and explore alternatives to evolution ... offers no scientific alternative; instead, the only alternative offered is an inherently religious one."

Same here: The choice offered the schools' students is between evolution, which is chock full of uncertainties according to the text, or the supernatural.

Textbook publishers and responsible parents have finally started pushing back against Texas textbook standards, which because of the state's economic heft threatened to spread unscientific pap throughout the biology curricula of public schools nationwide.

Just last November, the Texas Board of Education approved high school texts from 14 publishers that had refused to water down their treatment of evolution. "None of those textbooks call into question the overwhelming evidence supporting evolution and climate change science," the watchdog group Texas Freedom Network reported.

But as the charter school case shows, creationism still has a way of sneaking in the back door. It's still not safe for parents to let down their guard. And it's high time that federal education officials took a closer look at what's being done with our money.

Creationism again stalks the classroom - LA Times

As a personal aside, I love Zach Kopplin......
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blue Wren
Upvote 0

Blue Wren

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2014
2,114
1,280
Solna, Sweden
✟33,947.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
I never stated it was only the student and never the teacher.

Now, your examples are what they are and I am sure, there are environments created by some professors as you state. We are dealing with human beings here, not robots and this will happen.

I could also say, how comfortable would a student in a private Christian school be, asking a question about evolution, if the school is a conservative Christian school, that only believes in biblical creationism, but the student has a genuine interest in learning science?

This is a good point, I think.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Despite statements to the contrary, creationism is still taught in a minority of publicly-funded science classrooms, though the methods used are sorta insidious. .
Right, and in China despite it being illegal creation and bible are taught to tens of millions! Don't anyone ever think that wicked men and wicked laws will stop the truth from marching on.
 
Upvote 0

sandybay

Newbie
Apr 8, 2015
184
3
85
✟339.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Right, and in China despite it being illegal creation and bible are taught to tens of millions! Don't anyone ever think that wicked men and wicked laws will stop the truth from marching on.

Right, unfortunately it's only the truth as you see it, would a Muslin see it the same way you do? or a Hindu?
how about a Buddhist? or don't you give any of them much thought?
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,255
52,666
Guam
✟5,157,412.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Right, and in China despite it being illegal creation and bible are taught to tens of millions! Don't anyone ever think that wicked men and wicked laws will stop the truth from marching on.
Right, unfortunately it's only the truth as you see it,
They check with dad first, do they?
... would a Muslin see it the same way you do?
No
or a Hindu?
No
how about a Buddhist?
I don't think Buddhists have any set dogma.

To quote their philosophy:

If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.
... or don't you give any of them much thought?
They are mission fields.

Ever heard of the 10/40 Window?

I'd say a lot of thought went into that.
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
I'm sure. Read my latest reply to bhsmte. Earlier I mentioned being lectured by my chemistry teacher regarding how Christians can never become scientists. I have no idea what provoked him.

When I told my roommate (an evangelical Christian) about it afterward, he suggested I file a complaint. I chickened out and didn't do it. And the teacher only did it that one time, so I let it drop. But not exactly a friendly environment for Christians.

That makes your chemistry instructor a fool; chemistry is one of the science fields in which, last time I checked, theists are in a majority.

Also, not appropriate to bring up. I once had a substitute teacher who decided to tell all the girls in the class to "marry well and not work after having kids". I chewed her out for the sexist implications, more specifically, I said (and this is true) "my mother worked full time, went to college part time, and took care of two kids, all by herself. Maybe you don't feel capable enough to manage all of that, but do not assume that all people need to live by the same 1950s ideology that you have". She couldn't even respond to that.

I have stood up to people like that before, and most of the time, never get any kind of punishment for it (even in instances where I probably should have).
 
Upvote 0

Ada Lovelace

Grateful to scientists and all health care workers
Site Supporter
Jun 20, 2014
5,316
9,295
California
✟1,024,756.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Right, and in China despite it being illegal creation and bible are taught to tens of millions! Don't anyone ever think that wicked men and wicked laws will stop the truth from marching on.

I don't know if you're sincere or visiting us from Landover Baptist. It's not wicked so much as irresponsible to deliberately impair a child's education by teaching them the pseudoscience of creationism to supplant the science they need to learn to become scientifically literate citizens. In the case of the charter schools they are actually setting a poor example of Christians because of their underhanded methods that just breed resentment at how taxpayer funding is spent. It's a breach of integrity on the part of these creationists and they compromise the public perception of Christians as a whole.

I've spent time in China every summer since 2008 because my church is partnered with several churches there and we join forces for volunteer projects. Yes, it's a tremendous blessing that churches there are thriving when the government previously suppressed the Christian faith. I've witnessed one church in Harbin grow and expand so much there are now four. You can find Bibles in many bookstores, including the famous Wangfujing Bookstore in Beijing. My friends there who are Christians still attend school and learn genuine science. I've directly asked them about this several times out of curiosity. Like me, they view Genesis as an allegory, so there is no disparity between their faith and their science education, and no need for subterfuge by their parents and instructors. This tug of war between Christianity and evolution mainly takes place upon American soil. It's an absolutely unnecessary and counterproductive feud. When it encroaches upon science education and impairs a student's education it's to the detriment of both the student and society. You want to tilt at the windmills about evolution, and perhaps that's your favorite form of exercise, but most sensible Christians find more productive ways to spend their time and energy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blue Wren
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,255
52,666
Guam
✟5,157,412.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
It's not wicked so much as irresponsible to deliberately impair a child's education by teaching them the pseudoscience of creationism ...
Creationism is no more science than stamp collecting.

Is stamp collecting a pseudoscience?
 
Upvote 0

Ada Lovelace

Grateful to scientists and all health care workers
Site Supporter
Jun 20, 2014
5,316
9,295
California
✟1,024,756.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Creationism is no more science than stamp collecting.

I agree with you 100% about this, AV. :)

Is stamp collecting a pseudoscience?

No, but as far as I'm aware there are not stamp collecting textbooks being taught in science classes in a blatant effort to supplant actual science. Stamp collecting pseudoscience textbook manufacturing isn't a lucrative business. There haven't been lawsuits to prohibit stamp collecting from being taught in public schools as part of an academic discipline.

Though if there were stamp collecting creationist textbooks they probably would make up Ken Ham and Henry Morris stamps to cover over the ones of Darwin that several countries have issued to honor his accomplishments. Anything with a creationist stamp would be returned to sender as it lacks use and function in the real world. :D


448650.jpg


Commemorative-Darwin-Stam-001.jpg


http://www.stampmagazine.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=84655

New Royal Mail stamps celebrate Charles Darwin | Science | The Guardian
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Blue Wren
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,255
52,666
Guam
✟5,157,412.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
No, but as far as I'm aware there are not stamp collecting textbooks being taught in science classes in a blatant effort to supplant actual science.

That's something I wish creationists would come to realize:

That creationism is not science.

HOWEVER, it's not creationism's fault if creationists are trying to teach it as science.

Calling it "pseudoscience" then is, in my opinion, a misnomer.
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
That's something I wish creationists would come to realize:

That creationism is not science.

HOWEVER, it's not creationism's fault if creationists are trying to teach it as science.

Calling it "pseudoscience" then is, in my opinion, a misnomer.

:clap: I love your brilliant moments. However, pseudoscience is a label often given to subjects that people try to pass off as science, and I think creationism qualifies, or, more specifically, ID.
 
Upvote 0

Resha Caner

Expert Fool
Sep 16, 2010
9,171
1,398
✟163,100.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
That makes your chemistry instructor a fool; chemistry is one of the science fields in which, last time I checked, theists are in a majority.

Thanks.

Also, not appropriate to bring up. I once had a substitute teacher who decided to tell all the girls in the class to "marry well and not work after having kids". I chewed her out for the sexist implications, more specifically, I said (and this is true) "my mother worked full time, went to college part time, and took care of two kids, all by herself. Maybe you don't feel capable enough to manage all of that, but do not assume that all people need to live by the same 1950s ideology that you have". She couldn't even respond to that.

I can appreciate how this would frustrate you, but we don't want to cast a decision for motherhood as ignoble either.

I remember a great conversation where someone said, "I don't want my kid growing up as a garbage man." I asked, "Why? Is there something dishonorable about being a garbage man?" Yet a third person said, "If someone chooses to be a garbage man, that's one thing. But I don't want the opportunity taken away from my kid to pursue something else." That's the perfect answer IMHO.
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Thanks.



I can appreciate how this would frustrate you, but we don't want to cast a decision for motherhood as ignoble either.

I remember a great conversation where someone said, "I don't want my kid growing up as a garbage man." I asked, "Why? Is there something dishonorable about being a garbage man?" Yet a third person said, "If someone chooses to be a garbage man, that's one thing. But I don't want the opportunity taken away from my kid to pursue something else." That's the perfect answer IMHO.

I was in middle school, this was about as brilliant a response to expect a 14 year old to give. And still inappropriate of her to say. Just like your instructor was inappropriate when he even brought up religion, let alone condemned it. The additional idiocy to it comes from the fact that if someone told their parents, he could have been met with a lawsuit for that, and likely would have lost his job.
 
Upvote 0