Why do you believe in the evolution theory? (2)

[JacksBratt]

This is probably a lame question, but why is it so sad to cease to exist after we die when we never mourn that we ceased to exist before we were born?

Just curious. How do you cease to exist before you existed?

 

[Davian]

I was being sarcastic.

The word "probably" doesn't instill the confidence that I would want as I walked through a door into any unknown state of permanency.

I have yet to see any evidence that there is even a 'door' to consider.

Do you feel that if you accept evolutionary theory that you lose all hope for this "state of permanency"?

 

[Davian]

There was a doctor, an atheist as a matter of fact, that refuted the NDE and argued them to be the lack of O2 to the brain and all that scientific explanations.... that was, until he had one himself.

Since then, he has changed his tune. Wrote a book and is a very strong believer now.....

Is this what everyone here who is so strong against an spirit world, should or has to have happen to open their eyes.

That you believe it to be true does not make it so. Why would I not want for there to be such a thing as an afterlife, and all that it entails? Why would I not want to believe that there is something more to a human's existence than this relatively brief biological stint on Earth?

If so, it's a shame because those odds are way to low.

Still zero, unless you can present evidence to the contrary.

 

[JacksBratt]

What was his name?

Dr. Maurice Rawlings

Here's a quote from his book:


Rawlings told the story of his patient who collapsed during a stress test, and “before we could stop the machine, he dropped dead.”
Well, apparently not completely dead, because in the patient’s own words,
“When I came to, Dr. Rawlings was giving me CPR, and he asked me what was the matter, because I was looking so scared. I told him that I had been to hell and I need help! He said to me, ‘keep your hell to yourself, I’m a doctor and I’m trying to save your life, you need a minister for that.’ … And I would fade out every so often, so then he would focus CPR again and bring me back…Whenever I would come back to my body, I kept asking, “Please help me, please help me, I don’t want to go back to hell.” Soon a nurse named Pam said, “He needs help, do something!” At that time, Dr. Rawlings told me to repeat this short prayer. “I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Jesus, save my soul. Keep me alive. If I die, please keep me out of hell!”
The experience of the patient, Charles McKaig, then became pleasant, and he reported seeing his deceased mother and stepmother and being surrounded and comforted by the Holy Spirit. Upon awakening, he was an immediate evangelical Christian.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I've always accepted evolution. When I became a Christian my worldview merged and I could see design in the process where I didn't see it before. Science has always been integral part of my life and biological studies a passion.

I did answer as you can see above.

Must we therefore conclude that you find no evidence of life evolving unconvincing?

 

[JacksBratt]

..Duplicate post

 

[JacksBratt]

I have yet to see any evidence that there is even a 'door' to consider.

Do you feel that if you accept evolutionary theory that you lose all hope for this "state of permanency"?

Absolutely.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to link to the post where you explain your position. I guess that is your right but it seems rather strange to me. Oh well.

I explained my reason already. If it is strange to you that I prefer not to burden this thread, then perhaps you aught to read my criticism of the OP.

 

[Davian]

...
I've always accepted evolution.
...

To be clear, that while you accept "evolution", you do not accept mainstream evolutionary theory, common descent, etc.

Amirite?

 

[lasthero]

Dr. Maurice Rawlings

Here's a quote from his book:


Rawlings told the story of his patient who collapsed during a stress test, and “before we could stop the machine, he dropped dead.”
Well, apparently not completely dead, because in the patient’s own words,
“When I came to, Dr. Rawlings was giving me CPR, and he asked me what was the matter, because I was looking so scared. I told him that I had been to hell and I need help! He said to me, ‘keep your hell to yourself, I’m a doctor and I’m trying to save your life, you need a minister for that.’ … And I would fade out every so often, so then he would focus CPR again and bring me back…Whenever I would come back to my body, I kept asking, “Please help me, please help me, I don’t want to go back to hell.” Soon a nurse named Pam said, “He needs help, do something!” At that time, Dr. Rawlings told me to repeat this short prayer. “I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Jesus, save my soul. Keep me alive. If I die, please keep me out of hell!”
The experience of the patient, Charles McKaig, then became pleasant, and he reported seeing his deceased mother and stepmother and being surrounded and comforted by the Holy Spirit. Upon awakening, he was an immediate evangelical Christian.

If that's the case, then you're confused.

There was a doctor, an atheist as a matter of fact, that refuted the NDE and argued them to be the lack of O2 to the brain and all that scientific explanations.... that was, until he had one himself.

Since then, he has changed his tune. Wrote a book and is a very strong believer now.....

Rawlings never never had an NDE himself.

 

[JacksBratt]

If that's the case, then you're confused.




Rawlings never never had an NDE himself.

Sorry must have the wrong one. Lunch is over. I'll search later. Can't be too hard though.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Must we therefore conclude that you find no evidence of life evolving unconvincing?

I find that the premise that evolution is an unguided, unplanned process devoid of intelligence unconvincing.

I find the evidence for evolutionary traits being inherited and adapted by environmental pressures convincing.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I explained my reason already. If it is strange to you that I prefer not to burden this thread, then perhaps you aught to read my criticism of the OP.

I had read that post and was unsure if the quote was from you or not. So you are the person who replied about TOE? Why would this burden the thread? The thread is about why do you believe in the theory of evolution which your position would be valid and in keeping within the threads OP.

Thanks for the link.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I find that the premise that evolution is an unguided, unplanned process devoid of intelligence unconvincing.

There isn't really a branch of science within Biology, which deals with that.

I find the evidence for evolutionary traits being inherited and adapted by environmental pressures convincing.

Is that your description of the sort of Evolution you accept?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Sorry must have the wrong one. Lunch is over. I'll search later. Can't be too hard though.

I am familiar with Rawlings and his experiences which lead him to believe in Christ and how that came about. One dramatic NDE convinced him. He didn't have it himself. It is a very interesting experience.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I had read that post and was unsure if the quote was from you or not. So you are the person who replied about TOE? Why would this burden the thread? The thread is about why do you believe in the theory of evolution which your position would be valid and in keeping within the threads OP.

Thanks for the link.

My reply was more specific than that.
The thread starter's OP is lacking in essentials.
Perhaps when I have time, one day, I'll explain my story (perhaps I will write a book) -- as I have already explained this to you (what three times?) : I have answered this elsewhere on the forum and therefore do not want to burden this thread. Savvy?

 

[Oncedeceived]

There isn't really a branch of science within Biology, which deals with that.

Untrue. Look up any evolutionary literature about the mechanisms of evolution and most will comment that there is no plan to Natural Selection, no goal, just random mutations and environmental pressures. Natural Selection doesn't plan for the future and on and on.

Is that your description of the sort of Evolution you accept?

I accept the biological definition of evolution:

Biological evolution is defined as any genetic change in a population that is inherited over several generations. These changes may be small or large, noticeable or not so noticeable.

 

[Booko]

Here's a quote from his book:


Rawlings told the story of his patient who collapsed during a stress test, and “before we could stop the machine, he dropped dead.”
Well, apparently not completely dead, because in the patient’s own words,
“When I came to, Dr. Rawlings was giving me CPR, and he asked me what was the matter, because I was looking so scared. I told him that I had been to hell and I need help! He said to me, ‘keep your hell to yourself, I’m a doctor and I’m trying to save your life, you need a minister for that.’ … And I would fade out every so often, so then he would focus CPR again and bring me back…Whenever I would come back to my body, I kept asking, “Please help me, please help me, I don’t want to go back to hell.” Soon a nurse named Pam said, “He needs help, do something!” At that time, Dr. Rawlings told me to repeat this short prayer. “I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Jesus, save my soul. Keep me alive. If I die, please keep me out of hell!”
The experience of the patient, Charles McKaig, then became pleasant, and he reported seeing his deceased mother and stepmother and being surrounded and comforted by the Holy Spirit. Upon awakening, he was an immediate evangelical Christian.

I'm curious how you account for the fact that non-Christians who have NDEs do not generally experience hell, but rather that peaceful experience?

And yes, I mean nontheists too, not just people who believe in God but follow some other religion.

The few I've met IRL who've had an NDE do appear to have been changed by it, but it doesn't mean they become conventionally religious either, and certainly they don't all run off and join the One True Religion(tm).

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Untrue. Look up any evolutionary literature about the mechanisms of evolution and most will comment that there is no plan to Natural Selection, no goal, just random mutations and environmental pressures. Natural Selection doesn't plan for the future and on and on.

How does that answer your point, and my reply? Please explain?

I accept the biological definition of evolution:

Biological evolution is defined as any genetic change in a population that is inherited over several generations. These changes may be small or large, noticeable or not so noticeable.

How would your definition compare with this one:

"In the broadest sense, evolution is merely change, and so is all-pervasive; galaxies, languages, and political systems all evolve. Biological evolution ... is change in the properties of populations of organisms that transcend the lifetime of a single individual. The ontogeny of an individual is not considered evolution; individual organisms do not evolve. The changes in populations that are considered evolutionary are those that are inheritable via the genetic material from one generation to the next. Biological evolution may be slight or substantial; it embraces everything from slight changes in the proportion of different alleles within a population (such as those determining blood types) to the successive alterations that led from the earliest protoorganism to snails, bees, giraffes, and dandelions." - Douglas J. Futuyma in Evolutionary Biology, Sinauer Associates 1986

It is important to note that biological evolution refers to populations and not to individuals and that the changes must be passed on to the next generation. In practice this means that,

Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations.​

This is a good working scientific definition of evolution; one that can be used to distinguish between evolution and similar changes that are not evolution. Another common short definition of evolution can be found in many textbooks:

"In fact, evolution can be precisely defined as any change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next." - Helena Curtis and N. Sue Barnes, Biology, 5th ed. 1989 Worth Publishers, p.974 ....'*

~~~
* What is Evolution?

 

[bhsmte]

There isn't really a branch of science within Biology, which deals with that.



Is that your description of the sort of Evolution you accept?

Here is the deal, which is pretty plain to see.

Some are ticked off, that the theory of evolution, does not somehow involve a God in the process and they think, because the theory leans on the evidence available, this is a knock against their God.

Never mind that this issue is the same for all scientific theories, which rely on evidence to support them. I don't see any qualms about no mention of God in germ theory (another of our well evidenced theories), but maybe it is because they don't want their God to be mentioned in the same vane with germs, who knows.

Anyway, the theory is based on evidence and if it makes one more comfortable, they are free to insert their God of choice into any theory they like, as the reason the theory works.