Johannes Gutenberg Was Jewish

[Aryeh Jay]

[/SIZE][/FONT]
Well, there goest me ~ can't tell the difference between German and Latin

WHY would a good Catholic boy print a Bible with the idea that others besides just the Catholic hierarchy could read the Holy Bible? The Church Fathers sure didn't commission him to print the Bible as if he was some kind of Michelangelo. Gutenberg may have been the first Messianic One New Man of the 1400s ~ neither Christian nor Jew according to the good Fathers.
Guttenberg Changes History - Judaic Treasures | Jewish Virtual Library

Admit the Germans are pretty smart, but still gotta believe the inventor of the first movable metal typefaces (latin) and the first printing press (from a design principle for an olive and grape press) and the first complete latin translation machine printing of the complete Jewish Bible was of Jewish ancestry. If not then Gutenberg got the idea from someone of Jewish ancestry.

By the way i said "the complete Jewish Bible" not The Complete Jewish Bible as you imagined. OK, so maybe i should have said the complete Jewish Bible as had previously been pre-arranged and pre-approved by the Catholic Church

20 million+ Jews will agree The Jewish bible ends with Chronicles. If it went farther, we would be called “Christians”. Our Holy Books are not named according to your whims or opinions.

 

[AbbaLove]

20 million+ Jews will agree The Jewish bible ends with Chronicles. If it went farther, we would be called “Christians”. Our Holy Books are not named according to your whims or opinions.

That's the way my One New Man Bible ends with Chronicles, but then it continues with 27 other books making up the completed Jewish Bible.

Christians as well as Messianic Jews are more than willing to share their additional 27 Holy Jewish Books with secular, Conservative, Orthodox Judaism and whoever is searching for Truth. Just mediating on two of the 27 Books is well worth the effort.

John 8:32 - And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.

John 16:13 - Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, [that] shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come.

John 17:17 - Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

John 18:37-38 - Pilate therefore said unto Him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

1 John 3:18 - My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John 5:20 - And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, [even] in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

אֱ ל הֵ י כֶ ם​

Eloheichem​

( יְהוָה֙ = HaShem = YaHWeH = ADONAI = LORD)​

 

[Hoshiyya]

[/size][/font]
Well, there goest me ~ can't tell the difference between German and Latin

WHY would a good Catholic boy print a Bible with the idea that others besides just the Catholic hierarchy could read the Holy Bible? The Church Fathers sure didn't commission him to print the Bible as if he was some kind of Michelangelo. Gutenberg may have been the first Messianic One New Man of the 1400s ~ neither Christian nor Jew according to the good Fathers.
Guttenberg Changes History - Judaic Treasures | Jewish Virtual Library

Admit the Germans are pretty smart, but still gotta believe the inventor of the first movable metal typefaces (latin) and the first printing press (from a design principle for an olive and grape press) and the first complete latin translation machine printing of the complete Jewish Bible was of Jewish ancestry. If not then Gutenberg got the idea from someone of Jewish ancestry.

By the way i said "the complete Jewish Bible" not The Complete Jewish Bible as you imagined. OK, so maybe i should have said the complete Jewish Bible as had previously been pre-arranged and pre-approved by the Catholic Church

I don't get it.
Do you have any reason to suspect Gutenberg was even ethnically Jewish, let alone " Jewish in spirit " ?

 

[Hoshiyya]

That's the way my One New Man Bible ends with Chronicles, but then it continues with 27 other books making up the completed Jewish Bible.

Christians as well as Messianic Jews are more than willing to share their additional 27 Holy Jewish Books with secular, Conservative, Orthodox Judaism and whoever is searching for Truth. Just mediating on two of the 27 Books is well worth the effort.

John 8:32 - And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.

John 16:13 - Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, [that] shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come.

John 17:17 - Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

John 18:37-38 - Pilate therefore said unto Him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

1 John 3:18 - My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John 5:20 - And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, [even] in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

אֱ ל הֵ י כֶ ם​

Eloheichem​

( יְהוָה֙ = HaShem = YaHWeH = ADONAI = LORD)​

Your wording is a bit misleading though, to some people at least.

By the same token, the Muslims could say the "true Christian Bible" should include Quran, etc etc. and the Bahai will then add another book to that, and since there is no end to abrogation or "new revelations" another book will come after that, ad infinitum.

 

[AbbaLove]

I don't get it.
Do you have any reason to suspect Gutenberg was even ethnically Jewish, let alone " Jewish in spirit " ?

Yes​

Your wording is a bit misleading though, to some people at least.

By the same token, the Muslims could say the "true Christian Bible" should include Quran, etc etc. and the Bahai will then add another book to that, and since there is no end to abrogation or "new revelations" another book will come after that, ad infinitum.

Certainly you aren't advocating that Christians, Jews, Muslims, Bahai and others all become Unitarians.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Yes​

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Certainly you aren't advocating that Christians, Jews, Muslims, Bahai and others all become Unitarians.

1.
So then what is your reason for thinking Gutenberg was Jewish ?

2.
"Certainly you aren't advocating that Christians, Jews, Muslims, Bahai and others all become Unitarians"

... What?

Are you trying to alienate me with the absolute weirdness of your question ?

You might as well ask me about my opinion on Victorian women's footwear. Has nothing to do with the subject.

Referring to the Christian Bible as the Complete Jewish Bible is without a doubt misleading, as proven by the fact that Aryeh Jay didn't get what you were referring to.

 

[AbbaLove]

My statement began with “Certainly you aren’t” that was worded as a statement NOT as a question. The sentence ends with a period not a question mark as you may have imagined. In another thread several posts gave a misleading implication when "Unitarian" had been inadvertently capitalized. After post #15 it was correctly spelled in lower case as “unitarian” (post #19). This expressed your ‘unified’ and not a “Unitarian” misconception, so as not to give others the wrong impression.

Likewise , thanks for bringing it to my attention that referring to Gutenberg as a Messianic Jew (or Jewish Messianic) was misleading. A “Jewish Christian” would have been a more appropriate wording. Even so such wording fell out of use by 300-400 AD. Jews that were forced (or freely chose) to convert to Christianity were no longer considered a Jew by either the Church or by Judaism. Likewise my “reasons” may still be viewed by Judaism as well as the RCC as unreasonable. My comeback to such religiosity is the same comeback of many 20th and 21st Century Jewish Christians and Messianic Jews. That being the popular expression among both JCs and MJs ~ “Once a Jew always a Jew.”

Per your request i’ve listed some of my reasons below. However, these are my reasons knowing that certain elements of Christendom as well as Judaism does not consider someone of Jewish ancestry to necessarily be a Jew. This may very well have been the case with Gutenberg through the eyes of the Church and Judaism, but not necessarily through mind and heart of Johannes Gutenberg or for that matter the Spirit of God.

https://books.google.com/books?id=o...v=onepage&q=johannes gutenberg jewish&f=false

Die Jüdische Bibliothek an der Johannes Gutenberg-Universität Mainz 1938 ... - Andreas Lehnardt - Google Books

Your Bible and Johann Gutenberg

People of the Book - Jewish Books - Feldheim Publishers

Strasbourg in the Fifteenth Century had a long and rich history of latinic and germanic occupations, as the remnants of the Roman empire duked it out with the Alemanni, Huns, and Franks. It had a history, too, of internal conflict, with the citizens outmaneuvering their bishop and winning the status of an Imperial Free City in 1262, courtesy of King Philip of Swabia. Within a century the city had been wracked by revolution, the bubonic plague, and exceptionally brutal pogroms, in which Strasbourg’s entire Jewish population was either burnt to death or forcibly expelled from the city. The year of the pogroms is also the year in which Gutenberg is reported to have begun building his printing press––1439––and one has to wonder if there isn’t something more than coincidence at work here.

HIS Chosen Ones Have Always Survived To Spread HIS Word​

Johann was, from any angle, an extraordinarily gifted individual. And from his youth, he made good use of those gifts: his exceptional mechanical skills, his ability to organize large projects and convince people to finance them, and even his membership in a wealthy, influential family. His family held a hereditary position related to the minting of money, supplying the archiepiscopal mint with the metal to be coined and sitting as legal functionaries in the prosecution of forgery cases. At the very least, Gutenberg inherited from this connection an advanced knowledge in metal working. And this he put to use in stints as a goldsmith and a gem cutter—vocations requiring the utmost skill and attention to detail. (typically Jewish don’t you think)

~ His name Gutenburg, is similar to Jutenberg, "Jute" being similar to "Jude", which is German for "Jew". He was also depicted with a beard in most paintings and statues in Europe, a common facial feature among the town's Jewish men;

~ Historian John Man, author of The Gutenberg Revolution, points out that his home was located on "Judenberg," also known as the Jewish Hill;

~ The city where he was born, spent most of his life, and died, was Mainz, Germany, and during his time it was the capital of European Jewry, with its own Jewish academy, established 300 years earlier;

~ During this period, Mainz also had the largest Jewish community in Europe;

~ According to Mainz's web site, Gutenberg's time was considered the "golden age" of trade and prosperity of its citizens, and area Bishops had "protected" its Jewish population;

~ According to John Man, over a century earlier, dozens of Jewish homes were confiscated by the city's powerful rulers, and among them was the Gutenberg house. It was later reacquired by Gutenberg's ancestors and remained in his family through his lifetime.

~ Religion author John V. Collyer, notes on his web site, Bible Topics, that Gutenberg was born of a wealthy Jewish family in 1397.

Only two books are on permanent exhibit in the Great Hall of the Library of Congress: a perfect copy of the Gutenberg Bible printed on vellum, one of only three in the world; and the last, and arguably the finest illuminated manuscript of the Bible, the Giant Bible of Mainz. Both of these bibliophilic treasures were produced in the same city, Mainz, within two years of each other. After a separation of half a millennium, they were reunited when the great collector and benefactor of the Library, Lessing J. Rosenwald, presented to the Library the Giant Bible of Mainz manuscript on the 500th anniversary of its creation.

Guttenberg Changes History - Judaic Treasures | Jewish Virtual Library

Assuming Gutenberg was Jewish then the following assumption is that he was possibly a Messianic Jew. Perhaps God gave him supernatural knowledge through a dream about a printing press with movable type to print the 'complete' Jewish Bible. If indeed Jewish he must have felt many times like being pinched between a rock and a hard place. The Church Fathers didn’t consider a Messianic Jew a Christian. Judaism no longer considered a Messianic Jew a Jew. Thus, many today would not consider Gutenberg a Jew even if he was of Jewish ancestry.

While the property they lived on was previously in Jewish hands, a pogrom in the 1280s put all of that land into the archbishopric's hands. It was later purchased by the great-great-grandfather of Herr Gutenberg. (MessianicMommy)

Again, Jewish ancestry does not make one a Jew. (ChavaK)

When God made his unconditional covenant with Abraham (Genesis 12, 15, 17, etc.), He said that “in you all the nations will be blessed.” Wasn't one of the Lord’s expectations that His people, Israel, would be a channel of blessing for all of humanity.

But the Jewish people have invented or improved inventions all through modern history...they are a very bright people....and I have no doubt that is the result of YHWH's cultivation of their race. (rick357)

Gutenberg's contribution was a most significant blessing for all of humanity. Personally, I don't think it bothered God that a Catholic Christian of Jewish ancestry was used to be a channel of blessing for all of humanity. In point it seems just like God's Wisdom to confound the prejudices of religious man.

 

[Hoshiyya]

So, in short, you have no real reason to think he was Jewish.

Gutenberg means good mountain. Jutenberg is a completely separate and distinct word pronounced differently, and it would probably mean mountain of Jutes, a Danish people.

The only interesting thing you said is this:
John V. Collyer, notes on his web site, Bible Topics, that Gutenberg was born of a wealthy Jewish family in 1397.

So is this credible?
What is his source?
Is he talking about JOHANNES Gutenberg, or some other Gutenberg ?

Is Collyer the only one sitting with this information ?

 

[AbbaLove]

Dear Hoshiyya,

Certainly you don't expect anyone to believe you: 1) Digested my lengthy post of reasons; 2) Composed your reply and 3) Posted it ~ all in just 2 minutes (11:20am to 11:22am).

I'm not asking/expecting you to agree with my reasons, but rather thinking you had some possible interest in my reasons. Apparently you already had your mind made up (11:20am - 11:22am) giving the impression that your interest in reading and digesting my reasons was possibly not a sincere interest.

Will post it again just in case your having second thoughts about your previous opinion that i "have no real reason to think he was Jewish." Shouldn't be too quick to assume i've no real interest considering the lenght of my post with its numerous quotes and internet links.
________________

My statement began with “Certainly you aren’t” that was worded as a statement NOT as a question. The sentence ends with a period not a question mark as you may have imagined. In another thread several posts gave a misleading implication when "Unitarian" had been inadvertently capitalized. After post #15 it was correctly spelled in lower case as “unitarian” (post #19). This expressed your ‘unified’ and not a “Unitarian” misconception, so as not to give others the wrong impression.

Likewise , thanks for bringing it to my attention that referring to Gutenberg as a Messianic Jew (or Jewish Messianic) was misleading. A “Jewish Christian” would have been a more appropriate wording. Even so such wording fell out of use by 300-400 AD. Jews that were forced (or freely chose) to convert to Christianity were no longer considered a Jew by either the Church or by Judaism. Likewise my “reasons” may still be viewed by Judaism as well as the RCC as unreasonable. My comeback to such religiosity is the same comeback of many 20th and 21st Century Jewish Christians and Messianic Jews. That being the popular expression among both JCs and MJs ~ “Once a Jew always a Jew.”

Per your request i’ve listed some of my reasons below. However, these are my reasons knowing that certain elements of Christendom as well as Judaism does not consider someone of Jewish ancestry to necessarily be a Jew. This may very well have been the case with Gutenberg through the eyes of the Church and Judaism, but not necessarily through mind and heart of Johannes Gutenberg or for that matter the Spirit of God.

https://books.google.com/books?id=o...v=onepage&q=johannes gutenberg jewish&f=false

Die Jüdische Bibliothek an der Johannes Gutenberg-Universität Mainz 1938 ... - Andreas Lehnardt - Google Books

Your Bible and Johann Gutenberg

People of the Book - Jewish Books - Feldheim Publishers

Strasbourg in the Fifteenth Century had a long and rich history of latinic and germanic occupations, as the remnants of the Roman empire duked it out with the Alemanni, Huns, and Franks. It had a history, too, of internal conflict, with the citizens outmaneuvering their bishop and winning the status of an Imperial Free City in 1262, courtesy of King Philip of Swabia. Within a century the city had been wracked by revolution, the bubonic plague, and exceptionally brutal pogroms, in which Strasbourg’s entire Jewish population was either burnt to death or forcibly expelled from the city. The year of the pogroms is also the year in which Gutenberg is reported to have begun building his printing press––1439––and one has to wonder if there isn’t something more than coincidence at work here.

HIS Chosen Ones Have Always Survived To Spread HIS Word​

Johann was, from any angle, an extraordinarily gifted individual. And from his youth, he made good use of those gifts: his exceptional mechanical skills, his ability to organize large projects and convince people to finance them, and even his membership in a wealthy, influential family. His family held a hereditary position related to the minting of money, supplying the archiepiscopal mint with the metal to be coined and sitting as legal functionaries in the prosecution of forgery cases. At the very least, Gutenberg inherited from this connection an advanced knowledge in metal working. And this he put to use in stints as a goldsmith and a gem cutter—vocations requiring the utmost skill and attention to detail. (typically Jewish don’t you think)

~ His name Gutenburg, is similar to Jutenberg, "Jute" being similar to "Jude", which is German for "Jew". He was also depicted with a beard in most paintings and statues in Europe, a common facial feature among the town's Jewish men;

~ Historian John Man, author of The Gutenberg Revolution, points out that his home was located on "Judenberg," also known as the Jewish Hill;

~ The city where he was born, spent most of his life, and died, was Mainz, Germany, and during his time it was the capital of European Jewry, with its own Jewish academy, established 300 years earlier;

~ During this period, Mainz also had the largest Jewish community in Europe;

~ According to Mainz's web site, Gutenberg's time was considered the "golden age" of trade and prosperity of its citizens, and area Bishops had "protected" its Jewish population;

~ According to John Man, over a century earlier, dozens of Jewish homes were confiscated by the city's powerful rulers, and among them was the Gutenberg house. It was later reacquired by Gutenberg's ancestors and remained in his family through his lifetime.

~ Religion author John V. Collyer, notes on his web site, Bible Topics, that Gutenberg was born of a wealthy Jewish family in 1397.

Only two books are on permanent exhibit in the Great Hall of the Library of Congress: a perfect copy of the Gutenberg Bible printed on vellum, one of only three in the world; and the last, and arguably the finest illuminated manuscript of the Bible, the Giant Bible of Mainz. Both of these bibliophilic treasures were produced in the same city, Mainz, within two years of each other. After a separation of half a millennium, they were reunited when the great collector and benefactor of the Library, Lessing J. Rosenwald, presented to the Library the Giant Bible of Mainz manuscript on the 500th anniversary of its creation.

Guttenberg Changes History - Judaic Treasures | Jewish Virtual Library

Assuming Gutenberg was Jewish then the following assumption is that he was possibly a Messianic Jew. Perhaps God gave him supernatural knowledge through a dream about a printing press with movable type to print the 'complete' Jewish Bible. If indeed Jewish he must have felt many times like being pinched between a rock and a hard place. The Church Fathers didn’t consider a Messianic Jew a Christian. Judaism no longer considered a Messianic Jew a Jew. Thus, many today would not consider Gutenberg a Jew even if he was of Jewish ancestry.

While the property they lived on was previously in Jewish hands, a pogrom in the 1280s put all of that land into the archbishopric's hands. It was later purchased by the great-great-grandfather of Herr Gutenberg. (MessianicMommy)

Again, Jewish ancestry does not make one a Jew. (ChavaK)

When God made his unconditional covenant with Abraham (Genesis 12, 15, 17, etc.), He said that “in you all the nations will be blessed.” Wasn't one of the Lord’s expectations that His people, Israel, would be a channel of blessing for all of humanity.

But the Jewish people have invented or improved inventions all through modern history...they are a very bright people....and I have no doubt that is the result of YHWH's cultivation of their race. (rick357)

Gutenberg's contribution was a most significant blessing for all of humanity. Personally, I don't think it bothered God that a Catholic Christian of Jewish ancestry was used to be a channel of blessing for all of humanity. In point it seems just like God's Wisdom to confound the prejudices of religious man.

 

[Hoshiyya]

I'm not a slow reader. I saw you didn't actually give a reason, you just - like you did now - try to waste space and not actually give any reasons.
Reminds me of the Book of Mormon - lots of words, no content.

If you HAD a reason, you'd emphasize it and post it at the top of your post.
Only ONE of the your given reasons actually had any merit, and I asked you to clarify that ONE reason further since it was the only meaningful thing you said.

You are simply saying it is aesthetical, "appropriate", if he were a Jew, but without having a real reason to think so.

I notce you copy-pasted and thereby repeated your ridiculous claim about the name Gutenberg supposedly indicating he was Jewish.

It seems you are the one who has decided Gutenberg must be Jewish, and this makes you not objective.

If you give a good reason for saying he is Jewish, I could accept it.
I would LIKE for Gutenberg to be Jewish!
But I try to be objective and not just claim to be true what I would like to be true.

Your post is filled with needless and unhelpful information, like:

Only two books are on permanent exhibit in the Great Hall of the Library of Congress: a perfect copy of the Gutenberg Bible printed on vellum, one of only three in the world; and the last, and arguably the finest illuminated manuscript of the Bible, the Giant Bible of Mainz. Both of these bibliophilic treasures were produced in the same city, Mainz, within two years of each other. After a separation of half a millennium, they were reunited when the great collector and benefactor of the Library, Lessing J. Rosenwald, presented to the Library the Giant Bible of Mainz manuscript on the 500th anniversary of its creation.
​

THIS proves to you Gutenberg was Jewish?
Really?

Lol.

 

[AbbaLove]

They may not qualify as "reasons" to you, that's OK you're welcome to your opinion. They may mean squat to you, but they are my reasons even if you continually chose to belittle them.

No one to date has proof that Gutenberg's family tree includes Jewish ancestry, likewise no one has proof his family tree is minus Jewish ancestry. I put forth my reasons and could elaborate on them further. However, it seems what you really wanted was irrefutable proof and not speculative reasons no matter how well-founded or ill-founded you may consider my reasons.

I suspect you and thousands, if not millions, of Jews would be pleased if irrefutable proof became available that Gutenberg's family tree included Jewish ancestry. It would certainly please me, but until then it's my perogative to believe blood of his Jewish ancestors still flowed through his heart to his gifted mind and gifted hands.

I don't need to prove my reasons to you. Furthermore, the reason I posted the quote you found "needless and unhelpful" was because of the mention of Lessing Julius Rosenwald, the "great collector and benefactor." Julius Rosenwald - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
_____________

Per your request i’ve listed some of my reasons below. However, these are my reasons knowing that certain elements of Christendom as well as Judaism does not consider someone of Jewish ancestry to necessarily be a Jew. This may very well have been the case with Gutenberg through the eyes of the Church and Judaism, but not necessarily through mind and heart of Johannes Gutenberg or for that matter the Spirit of God.

https://books.google.com/books?id=o...v=onepage&q=johannes gutenberg jewish&f=false

Die Jüdische Bibliothek an der Johannes Gutenberg-Universität Mainz 1938 ... - Andreas Lehnardt - Google Books

Your Bible and Johann Gutenberg

People of the Book - Jewish Books - Feldheim Publishers

Strasbourg in the Fifteenth Century had a long and rich history of latinic and germanic occupations, as the remnants of the Roman empire duked it out with the Alemanni, Huns, and Franks. It had a history, too, of internal conflict, with the citizens outmaneuvering their bishop and winning the status of an Imperial Free City in 1262, courtesy of King Philip of Swabia. Within a century the city had been wracked by revolution, the bubonic plague, and exceptionally brutal pogroms, in which Strasbourg’s entire Jewish population was either burnt to death or forcibly expelled from the city. The year of the pogroms is also the year in which Gutenberg is reported to have begun building his printing press––1439––and one has to wonder if there isn’t something more than coincidence at work here.

HIS Chosen Ones Have Always Survived To Spread HIS Word​

Johann was, from any angle, an extraordinarily gifted individual. And from his youth, he made good use of those gifts: his exceptional mechanical skills, his ability to organize large projects and convince people to finance them, and even his membership in a wealthy, influential family. His family held a hereditary position related to the minting of money, supplying the archiepiscopal mint with the metal to be coined and sitting as legal functionaries in the prosecution of forgery cases. At the very least, Gutenberg inherited from this connection an advanced knowledge in metal working. And this he put to use in stints as a goldsmith and a gem cutter—vocations requiring the utmost skill and attention to detail. (typically Jewish don’t you think)

~ His name Gutenburg, is similar to Jutenberg, "Jute" being similar to "Jude", which is German for "Jew". He was also depicted with a beard in most paintings and statues in Europe, a common facial feature among the town's Jewish men;

~ Historian John Man, author of The Gutenberg Revolution, points out that his home was located on "Judenberg," also known as the Jewish Hill;

~ The city where he was born, spent most of his life, and died, was Mainz, Germany, and during his time it was the capital of European Jewry, with its own Jewish academy, established 300 years earlier;

~ During this period, Mainz also had the largest Jewish community in Europe;

~ According to Mainz's web site, Gutenberg's time was considered the "golden age" of trade and prosperity of its citizens, and area Bishops had "protected" its Jewish population;

~ According to John Man, over a century earlier, dozens of Jewish homes were confiscated by the city's powerful rulers, and among them was the Gutenberg house. It was later reacquired by Gutenberg's ancestors and remained in his family through his lifetime.

~ Religion author John V. Collyer, notes on his web site, Bible Topics, that Gutenberg was born of a wealthy Jewish family in 1397.

Only two books are on permanent exhibit in the Great Hall of the Library of Congress: a perfect copy of the Gutenberg Bible printed on vellum, one of only three in the world; and the last, and arguably the finest illuminated manuscript of the Bible, the Giant Bible of Mainz. Both of these bibliophilic treasures were produced in the same city, Mainz, within two years of each other. After a separation of half a millennium, they were reunited when the great collector and benefactor of the Library, Lessing J. Rosenwald, presented to the Library the Giant Bible of Mainz manuscript on the 500th anniversary of its creation.

Guttenberg Changes History - Judaic Treasures | Jewish Virtual Library

Assuming Gutenberg was Jewish then the following assumption is that he was possibly a Messianic Jew. Perhaps God gave him supernatural knowledge through a dream about a printing press with movable type to print the 'complete' Jewish Bible. If indeed Jewish he must have felt many times like being pinched between a rock and a hard place. The Church Fathers didn’t consider a Messianic Jew a Christian. Judaism no longer considered a Messianic Jew a Jew. Thus, many today would not consider Gutenberg a Jew even if he was of Jewish ancestry.

While the property they lived on was previously in Jewish hands, a pogrom in the 1280s put all of that land into the archbishopric's hands. It was later purchased by the great-great-grandfather of Herr Gutenberg. (MessianicMommy)

Again, Jewish ancestry does not make one a Jew. (ChavaK)

When God made his unconditional covenant with Abraham (Genesis 12, 15, 17, etc.), He said that “in you all the nations will be blessed.” Wasn't one of the Lord’s expectations that His people, Israel, would be a channel of blessing for all of humanity.

But the Jewish people have invented or improved inventions all through modern history...they are a very bright people....and I have no doubt that is the result of YHWH's cultivation of their race. (rick357)

Gutenberg's contribution was a most significant blessing for all of humanity. Personally, I don't think it bothered God that a Catholic Christian of Jewish ancestry was used to be a channel of blessing for all of humanity. In point it seems just like God's Wisdom to confound the prejudices of religious man.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

20 million+ Jews will agree The Jewish bible ends with Chronicles. If it went farther, we would be called “Christians”. Our Holy Books are not named according to your whims or opinions.

Very true - although for Jewish Christians, that is where the Bible goes further. Nonetheless, as it concerns the historical background of the scriptures according to Judaism (as opposed to Messianic Judaism), Chronicles is where things stop.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

So, in short, you have no real reason to think he was Jewish.

Gutenberg means good mountain. Jutenberg is a completely separate and distinct word pronounced differently, and it would probably mean mountain of Jutes, a Danish people.

The only interesting thing you said is this:
John V. Collyer, notes on his web site, Bible Topics, that Gutenberg was born of a wealthy Jewish family in 1397.

So is this credible?
What is his source?
Is he talking about JOHANNES Gutenberg, or some other Gutenberg ?

Is Collyer the only one sitting with this information ?

There are no other credible resources that actually establish that Guttenburg himself was Jewish at all in the sources - and some of them seem to be used outside of their actual context.

In example, the one known as People of the Book - Jewish Books - Feldheim Publishers simply states how the Guttenburg Printing Press benefited those in the Jewish community. As said there for description:

The invention of the printing press created a revolution for Jews everywhere. Who could imagine at that time the extraordinary benefits that printing would bring to world Jewry?

“People of the Book” vividly describes the invention itself, and then takes us through five hundred years of Hebrew printing, from the earliest products of fifteenth-century printers to those of modern times.

Author and teacher Akiva Aaronson introduces us to the first printed editions of the classic sefarim: Talmud, Rambam, Arba’ah Turim, Shulchan Aruch, and many more. Meet the famous Hebrew printers of previous generations: Soncino, Bomber, Romm, Heidenheim, Bak and others. Visit the Jewish communities where Hebrew printing took place, from its earliest days until the present: Venice, Salonika, Prague, Amsterdam, Slavita, Warsaw and Vilna, to name a few.

Weaving lively text with over two hundred magnificent, full-color photographs of original Hebrew volumes, “People of the Book” is truly a journey through time- Jewish time- over five centuries of Hebrew printing. Follow its odyssey, from persecution and censorship to survival and triumph, set against the phenomenal history of the times in this beautiful coffee-table edition.
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Nothing whatsoever within it notes that Guttenburg was Jewish - as it would be like having a website on the Asian world benefited by Guttenburg and then saying he was Asian.

 

[Hoshiyya]

I'm tryin to quote your message G, but apparently it doesn't work, so I am manually quoting it here:

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

There are no other credible resources that actually establish that Guttenburg himself was Jewish at all in the sources - and some of them seem to be used outside of their actual context.

In example, the one known as People of the Book - Jewish Books - Feldheim Publishers simply states how the Guttenburg Printing Press benefited those in the Jewish community. As said there for description:

The invention of the printing press created a revolution for Jews everywhere. Who could imagine at that time the extraordinary benefits that printing would bring to world Jewry?

“People of the Book” vividly describes the invention itself, and then takes us through five hundred years of Hebrew printing, from the earliest products of fifteenth-century printers to those of modern times.

Author and teacher Akiva Aaronson introduces us to the first printed editions of the classic sefarim: Talmud, Rambam, Arba’ah Turim, Shulchan Aruch, and many more. Meet the famous Hebrew printers of previous generations: Soncino, Bomber, Romm, Heidenheim, Bak and others. Visit the Jewish communities where Hebrew printing took place, from its earliest days until the present: Venice, Salonika, Prague, Amsterdam, Slavita, Warsaw and Vilna, to name a few.

Weaving lively text with over two hundred magnificent, full-color photographs of original Hebrew volumes, “People of the Book” is truly a journey through time- Jewish time- over five centuries of Hebrew printing. Follow its odyssey, from persecution and censorship to survival and triumph, set against the phenomenal history of the times in this beautiful coffee-table edition.
​

Nothing whatsoever within it notes that Guttenburg was Jewish - as it would be like having a website on the Asian world benefited by Guttenburg and then saying he was Asian.


RESPONSE:

Yes, exactly. Thank you.
AbbaLove won't accept the truth from my mouth, for whatever reason, but maybe he will listen if enough people speak it.
Of course, he already knows there is no reason to actually think Gutenberg was Jewish, but for whatever reasons he feels free to baselessly speculate.

You put it into words well when you say:
" Nothing whatsoever within it notes that Guttenburg was Jewish - as it would be like having a website on the Asian world benefited by Guttenburg and then saying he was Asian.."

It alwasy annoys me when people place symbolical appropriateness above actual facts. Sometimes symbolical appropriateness can be a factor, like when discussing actual symbology, but not when it comes to history.

 

[ContraMundum]

Nope.

His full name was Johannes Gensfleisch zur Laden zum Gutenberg. He was baptized at St Christoph's church in Mainz, which was a Catholic church. His father was an aristocrat and employed at the local mint. He grew up learning how to handle gold. "His surname was derived from the house inhabited by his father and his paternal ancestors 'zu Laden, zu Gutenberg'. The house of Gänsfleisch was one of the aristocratic families of the town, tracing its lineage back to the 13th century, and by the 1420s the name "zu Gutenberg", (named after the family house in Mainz), is documented to have been used for the first time.


They left Mainz due to the common people revolting against the aristocracy and he lived elsewhere before moving to Strausbourg, Switzerland for a time and then returning to Mains. I've never heard him claimed as Jewish before to be perfectly honest.

+1. He was a good Catholic boy.

 

[ContraMundum]

It's OK not to be Jewish, too.

I wish someone would put that in their signature. Of course a Jew can't, because it could seem condescending. (Like the line in the movie "Independence Day" when one character says "but I'm not perfect" and the Jew in the yarmulke says "nobody's perfect". Cringe. It's stuff like that that gets us in trouble)

 

[Hoshiyya]

I wish someone would put that in their signature. Of course a Jew can't, because it could seem condescending. (Like the line in the movie "Independence Day" when one character says "but I'm not perfect" and the Jew in the yarmulke says "nobody's perfect". Cringe. It's stuff like that that gets us in trouble)

Had to google it

 

[AbbaLove]

You all know that according to Pharisaical traditions there's no way on earth that a Catholic Christian could be a real Jew even with Jewish ancestry. Furthermore you all know that according to Saint Jerome and the dogma of the RCC there's no way on earth that Johannes Gensfleisch Gutenberg could be Jewish even if he had Jewish ancestry.

Aren't you thankful that the LORD God doesn't take into account the manmade prejudices of Pharisaical traditions or the manmade dogma of the RCC.

It's such a Joy to be One New Man in the LORD God, neither Jew nor Gentile. If there was a One New Man faith icon i'd gladly display it, but until then Christian will have to do.

 

[johnpaul7779]

Nope.

His full name was Johannes Gensfleisch zur Laden zum Gutenberg. He was baptized at St Christoph's church in Mainz, which was a Catholic church. His father was an aristocrat and employed at the local mint. He grew up learning how to handle gold. "His surname was derived from the house inhabited by his father and his paternal ancestors 'zu Laden, zu Gutenberg'. The house of Gänsfleisch was one of the aristocratic families of the town, tracing its lineage back to the 13th century, and by the 1420s the name "zu Gutenberg", (named after the family house in Mainz), is documented to have been used for the first time.


They left Mainz due to the common people revolting against the aristocracy and he lived elsewhere before moving to Strausbourg, Switzerland for a time and then returning to Mains. I've never heard him claimed as Jewish before to be perfectly honest.

That's interesting.

 

[johnpaul7779]

If he's a Christian, why call him a Jew? Jewish collective pride? Didn't Noah have 3 other sons besides Shem? And what about the Jews that were converted in the first century? Why not speculate everyone of achievement was a Jew in the first century before conversion just to bolster your Jewish identification? Why not just ask wasn't Johann Gutenberg a descendant of Noah?